Stun needs work.

[Dog]

Whats the point of stun when:

It unfreezes enemies frozen by artificers ice wall.
Greater wisps and brass contraptions will still blast you in the face while stunned.
Bosses are immune to stun.

Im fine with bosses being immune to stun from stun grenades but not so much from player skills. Perhaps if not a full stun then at least an interrupt should be possible, even if not guaranteed, with player skills on bosses.

[MagnaRose]

and have a cheese team of just mul-T's?
while I would indeed like that, no, please no.

[Harmania]

Originally posted by WeirdProfilePic:

and have a cheese team of just mul-T's?
while I would indeed like that, no, please no.

You can literally just give stun diminishing return on the same target. So they eventually become immune to it.

[Dog]

Originally posted by WeirdProfilePic:

and have a cheese team of just mul-T's?
while I would indeed like that, no, please no.

This is already possible.

[MagnaRose]

Originally posted by Zod the Defiler:

Originally posted by WeirdProfilePic:

and have a cheese team of just mul-T's?
while I would indeed like that, no, please no.

This is already possible.

not against bosses and certain enemies tho

[Netsa]

With all that damage, it's practically cheese regardless.

[Saul_Myers]

Artificer's ice wall is execution move, though.
It's mainly used to instakill low HP enemies.

[Dog]

Originally posted by WeirdProfilePic:

Originally posted by Zod the Defiler:

This is already possible.

not against bosses and certain enemies tho

Oh well yeah not on bosses. But whole groups yes. I just think stun needs some tweaking.

[a e s t h e t i c]

Grenades working against most type of enemies. Try to get 10x sometime and watch how you stunlock golems and elder lemurians by making them absolutly immobile and disabled (I had so much fun doing that on those type of monsters that are so scary in lategame)

[Xilo The Odd]

if some bosses during certain attacks had a chance at higher HP to be flinched out of an attack via stun or other specific status ailment that wouldnt be the end of the world. but it'd only spawn an easy mode and likely only be apart of drizzle or the lower end of the difficulty ramp, which, only last for about 15 mins then your in hahaha mode where everything is hard all the time.

[BlahBlah]

Originally posted by WeirdProfilePic:

and have a cheese team of just mul-T's?
while I would indeed like that, no, please no.

Mul-T is already the free-win survivor, what's your point?

[lexilogo]

Originally posted by Zod the Defiler:

It unfreezes enemies frozen by artificers ice wall.

Even though Snapfreeze is supposed to be an execution move I can agree to this. CC overriding other forms of CC can get annoying.

Originally posted by Zod the Defiler:

Greater wisps and brass contraptions will still blast you in the face while stunned.

I agree this could use changing. It's very strange that certain attacks don't seem to be stopped by stun.

Originally posted by Zod the Defiler:

Bosses are immune to stun.

No, this is fine. Not every item or status effect needs to apply 1:1 to bosses, especially considering that TBH in this game depending on the situation, normal enemies, especially Elites can often be more of a threat than bosses. If you gave me the choice between adding either a Magma Worm or a horde of 10 Stone Golems to a fight, I'd pick the worm.

At BEST I could concede that maybe Stun could serve a different purpose if it gets applied to bosses (eg. slower attack speed, slower movespeed, something like that) so it isn't completely useless, or maybe something like Enter the Gungeon's freeze status effect where it's extremely effective but slows in power before the boss becomes completely immune to it after a few uses, but it should NOT work like it does with normal enemies and I don't think it should be usable to easily interrupt boss attacks.

However in general, I think that stun is useful enough in its current state.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by BlahBlah:

Originally posted by WeirdProfilePic:

and have a cheese team of just mul-T's?
while I would indeed like that, no, please no.

Mul-T is already the free-win survivor, what's your point?

Everyone seems to have different "free-win" survivors. I'd say 80% of my engineer deaths on solo monsoon are I get 60+ minutes in and just straight up stop paying attention. I get further on huntress actually not because she's better, but because I have to put in effort and because of that I don't get so overconfident I just start standing still.

On Mult I feel like I actually can fall behind in damage, and I get hit way more because of his bigger model. Which means if I get pure damage, what's otherwise OP on every other character leaves me getting hit too much and there's a chance I might die. To be fair, people experienced with MULT probably don't have this problem. But if I have no problems on engineer and huntress and you have no problems on Mult, all that really means is we've picked different characters.

Actually I really don't understand why people think he's so good. To me it seems like its heavily based on playstyle, other than engineer is so fricken easy that you can't lose on him other than by basically falling asleep (although to be honest, that happens to me a lot when I play him).

Besides if MULT actually is OP, I think buffing him seems like a stupid move. I think thats a fairly reasonable point.

[BlahBlah]

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

Originally posted by BlahBlah:

Mul-T is already the free-win survivor, what's your point?

Everyone seems to have different "free-win" survivors. I'd say 80% of my engineer deaths on solo monsoon are I get 60+ minutes in and just straight up stop paying attention. I get further on huntress actually not because she's better, but because I have to put in effort and because of that I don't get so overconfident I just start standing still.

On Mult I feel like I actually can fall behind in damage, and I get hit way more because of his bigger model. Which means if I get pure damage, what's otherwise OP on every other character leaves me getting hit too much and there's a chance I might die. To be fair, people experienced with MULT probably don't have this problem. But if I have no problems on engineer and huntress and you have no problems on Mult, all that really means is we've picked different characters.

Actually I really don't understand why people think he's so good. To me it seems like its heavily based on playstyle, other than engineer is so fricken easy that you can't lose on him other than by basically falling asleep (although to be honest, that happens to me a lot when I play him).

Besides if MULT actually is OP, I think buffing him seems like a stupid move. I think thats a fairly reasonable point.

Mul-T doesn't fall behind on damage much at all, even with no attack items he can deal decent damage to bosses 60 minutes in. His base DPS is ridiculous and even a few items magnify that.
Mul-T has huge DPS, health and armor. He's even easier than engineer. He's so brokenly strong that I always feel dirty when playing him, it's akin to using cheats.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by BlahBlah:

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

Everyone seems to have different "free-win" survivors. I'd say 80% of my engineer deaths on solo monsoon are I get 60+ minutes in and just straight up stop paying attention. I get further on huntress actually not because she's better, but because I have to put in effort and because of that I don't get so overconfident I just start standing still.

On Mult I feel like I actually can fall behind in damage, and I get hit way more because of his bigger model. Which means if I get pure damage, what's otherwise OP on every other character leaves me getting hit too much and there's a chance I might die. To be fair, people experienced with MULT probably don't have this problem. But if I have no problems on engineer and huntress and you have no problems on Mult, all that really means is we've picked different characters.

Actually I really don't understand why people think he's so good. To me it seems like its heavily based on playstyle, other than engineer is so fricken easy that you can't lose on him other than by basically falling asleep (although to be honest, that happens to me a lot when I play him).

Besides if MULT actually is OP, I think buffing him seems like a stupid move. I think thats a fairly reasonable point.

Mul-T doesn't fall behind on damage much at all, even with no attack items he can deal decent damage to bosses 60 minutes in. His base DPS is ridiculous and even a few items magnify that.
Mul-T has huge DPS, health and armor. He's even easier than engineer. He's so brokenly strong that I always feel dirty when playing him, it's akin to using cheats.

Engineer does more damage without items though. And he scales better with items. The only thing engineer has to worry about is his turrets dying. But there are so many ways to prevent this from being an issue (cd reduction so you can replace them, dio's best friend so they revive, lots of healing or teddy bears so they don't die, enough damage that they wipe everything if they're alive for even a few seconds).

On the other hand, mult has good damage, but he's really big and actually has to stop to attack. On engineer you can just sprint 100% of the time (even if you don't have the build for turrets alone to carry, you can charge grenades while sprinting). Its incredibly easy to not get hit. You go faster through the early stages because you can sprint for items. And its way way easier not to get hit.

Basically if I play mult, get hit, and lose half my hp, now if I don't need healing items I need to go out of combat. On engineer, I'm just not getting hit cause I'm sprinting 100% of the time and don't have a huge hitbox.

See at least as mult, you need to know how to dodge stuff or you'll slowly die. Not a required skill for engineer, and barely a required skill for huntress (who also has good base damage and doesn't require aim). And you need to be close to your enemy as mult which puts you somewhat at danger. Engineer you just throw turrets and a shield then run the hell away. They'll probably win. I think you could literally hide the enemies and I would still be able to win a run on engineer.

In the end my point is you think Mult is so easy as to basically be cheats. I think engineer is that easy. And even though she feels harder, I think my huntress runs are more consistent than engineer because I don't end up falling asleep 60 minutes in. Its really just random claims at this point, but at the very least the characters I think are easy don't even require aim. And I've seen people list mult low tier, but I've never seen anyone claim engineer is hard.

[BlahBlah]

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

Originally posted by BlahBlah:

Mul-T doesn't fall behind on damage much at all, even with no attack items he can deal decent damage to bosses 60 minutes in. His base DPS is ridiculous and even a few items magnify that.
Mul-T has huge DPS, health and armor. He's even easier than engineer. He's so brokenly strong that I always feel dirty when playing him, it's akin to using cheats.

Engineer does more damage without items though. And he scales better with items. The only thing engineer has to worry about is his turrets dying. But there are so many ways to prevent this from being an issue (cd reduction so you can replace them, dio's best friend so they revive, lots of healing or teddy bears so they don't die, enough damage that they wipe everything if they're alive for even a few seconds).

On the other hand, mult has good damage, but he's really big and actually has to stop to attack. On engineer you can just sprint 100% of the time (even if you don't have the build for turrets alone to carry, you can charge grenades while sprinting). Its incredibly easy to not get hit. You go faster through the early stages because you can sprint for items. And its way way easier not to get hit.

Basically if I play mult, get hit, and lose half my hp, now if I don't need healing items I need to go out of combat. On engineer, I'm just not getting hit cause I'm sprinting 100% of the time and don't have a huge hitbox.

See at least as mult, you need to know how to dodge stuff or you'll slowly die. Not a required skill for engineer, and barely a required skill for huntress (who also has good base damage and doesn't require aim). And you need to be close to your enemy as mult which puts you somewhat at danger. Engineer you just throw turrets and a shield then run the hell away. They'll probably win. I think you could literally hide the enemies and I would still be able to win a run on engineer.

In the end my point is you think Mult is so easy as to basically be cheats. I think engineer is that easy. And even though she feels harder, I think my huntress runs are more consistent than engineer because I don't end up falling asleep 60 minutes in. Its really just random claims at this point, but at the very least the characters I think are easy don't even require aim. And I've seen people list mult low tier, but I've never seen anyone claim engineer is hard.

That's great and all but it's still much easier to play MulT. It doesnt matter if engineer theoretically has better scaling, Mul-T can't die and will always perform well even if he gets bad RNG.