Gauss vs. Carbonizer Turrets?

[Mosey]

I unlocked the engineer abilities and have been playing around with them to figure out what I like best, and in the description for the carbonizer turrets it says they do 200% damage each as opposed to the 100% damage of the gauss turrets (I do note the 200% is 'per second' whereas I suspect Gauss is per shot).

I'm assuming this means the carbonizers do double the base damage of gauss turrets, in addition to them being mobile?

Yet after playing around with both options, it seems the Gauss turrets are actually better since I can overlap stationary heals and (perhaps most importantly) they focus fire the same target more reliably.

The thing that's killing me here is that it doesn't feel like carbonizers do double damage. If they did, each turret should do the same damage as two gauss turrets. So I'm thinking that in addition to doing double damage, perhaps their fire rate is slower? Something feels off.

Have other engineers tested this out to figure which turret type is 'better'? I do like the mobility of the carbonizer turrets, but without a reliable way to make them focus-fire the same enemy they mostly wander off and die. In fact, I'm thinking that not being able to reliably bubble the mobile turrets is also a pretty big downside.

I can honestly say that I've found that the baseline Gauss turrets seem better in just about every scenario. Even fighting flame worm bosses the mobility of the carbonizer doesn't seem to help them live longer. I really feel like the inability to micromanage them to attack the same target is their biggest weakness.

All this being said, I love the spider mines. Way better than default, even with the lower damage. They're a better primary weapon than the grenadespam in my view for most things.

[Lunacy]

Carbonizer turrets usually just run around and get killed like drones do.

[Fazl]

Let me throw you my opinion on the new turrets. Ahem. They need work.

They have way too much against them to be even close to a "side grade" I'll break up my points into 4 parts.

- AI.

Well, if you use the turrets I shouldnt need to explain it. Not only do they walk off cliffs.. derp about.. but the targeting priority is closest target.. so when they walk around Target A .. they swap to a new target if they get close, leaving Target A alive. Bosses are an absolute nightmare to deal with using these turrets.. especially bosses they cant hit.. you big dumb jellyfish you.

-Survivability.

No fungus dead turrets. The healing also is quite poor per hit because of the Proc co-efficent on them. Which I think I was told was .. 0.6. Meaning if you had 5 leech seeds, you heal 3 hp per hit on the turret. This is real bad considering they lose fungus synergies, and in a game where you must move fast to dodge.. well. These things die a lot.

- Damage

Now.. on "paper" they do more damage base. Easy days right? Until the attack speed bug was fixed, they were bad. So bad. But now? Losing the ability to rapid fire skulls (I know situational) is a huge dps loss. Couple that with other synergies .. and they really dont stand up to the other turrets at all. Maybe they should ramp up damage on a single target.. longer they fight it.. the more the laser does?


-Mobility .. You thought the mobility was your ally? I mean.. it kinda is but.. since you cant stack hooves too well on them they dont zip around at all.. they have issues keeping up with you and they obviously dont attempt to dodge. So what benefit does mobility give me? You have to constantly re summon them anyway due to items applying so.. again. Why is being mobile better?
It isn't. Maybe these turrets could somehow equip items as you do as well as being persistant like drones.. making items like the health boost a wanted upgrade for the turrets, allowing them to increase hp with kills as their survivability. Just a thought no?

I like the concept I really do, but.. they need so much work to make me even think about using them. Will the devs put in the effort to make them a worthy addition to the engineer? .. Who knows. Id like to think they will.

[Mosey]

I'm hoping that one of the engineer unlocks is eventually something to set a focus target for the mobile turrets. I think that would solve at least some of my problems with them, and while I like the bubble I'd trade it for something that at least works with the mobile turrets. Their range also could use a buff, or their mobility. Either/or.

After playing with the mobile turrets all day yesterday, then switching to base turrets today, it was clear the gauss turrets work better in pretty much all situations.

[Raptros]

These little wieners die so much you could probably give them an explosion radius on death and make them attractive.

[Krueger]

In terms of the stat explanation you get, the Gauss is described as 100% damage per shot, while the Carbonizer is 200% per second.

Iirc from when I tested this a while back, the Gauss fired just under 2 shots a second, so the Carbonizer worked out at slightly higher base damage per second but not by any huge amount. Now that both turrets scale on attack speed this should stay true as you scale up but honestly it's very hard to tell.

The main issues for me so far has been the limited range making it almost impossible to hit any airborne target they aren't standing directly under, if they can reach at all. Sometimes they will just run in circles under an enemy thats just out of range while there are ground enemies slightly further away...

Thats the second issue, the AI is still pretty dumb. Seeing them constantly walk off cliffs is particularly annoying. Also it takes them a very long time to switch targets once something dies which is quite odd.

Having said all that, if you can get past the first few maps which I feel are probably the hardest part for them (long long cooldowns and lack of anti-air options until you get some good items) then they are capable of doing some serious work.

I've been getting rid of the bubble in favour of Strides of Heresy when I use them, and also picking up a Corpsebloom. Offsets the loss of healing from the low proc coefficient, and you can keep it topped off on yourself for max healing using the Strides of Heresy. Getting an Aegis makes it pretty nuts.

Overall, they have potential but they're very item dependent and mostly let down by crap AI and terrible range. You have to get out of the mindset of being a stationary powerhouse with fungus though, and that becomes difficult when the rest of the Engineers kit isn't that suited to roaming and has no anti-air options other than the Gauss turrets. Hopefully that last point can be remedied in the future with alternate primary fire and alternate utility skills.

[Loken Stoneheart]

They spend too much time waddling in and out of their poor attack range, though I really want to like them.

I could deal w/ the decreased survivability (after all, things like bandoliers let you summon more of them anyways, and you'd have to replace your stationary ones any time you moved anyhow,) but they don't really do the advertised increased damage because of this.

[Razkil]

I managed to get Glass Shard and the Damaged Tesla Coil, a few crowbars and armour piercing ammo.. Let me put it this way.. With effectively 3x tesla stacked with all those buffs, you essentially just walk around looting. Neither you nor turrets get to shoot anything except extemely tanky bosses.. But then again, that is extremely situational. Requires 2 items, and one i have literally only seen twice.

[ShuFlngPu]

Originally posted by Lunacy:

Carbonizer turrets usually just run around and get killed like drones do.

Fact.
Lazer turrets are utter garbage at the moment. Completely underpowered in every way.
I see patch notes for beta that give carbonizer 1 move speed and its lazer will scale proper off attack speed on next patch.
But its still not gona be enough because they just get SMASHED by anything level 5 plus. lol Even if you just go for a defence oriented build.

[[COS] CrazyLasagna]

The mobile turrets suck for three reasons.

1. They are really good at dying
2. They can't utilize bustling fungus, which is potentially half the reason why you're playing engineer
3. They have lower proc chance

Aka, dont use the mobile turrets.

[Mosey]

Originally posted by Razkil:

I managed to get Glass Shard and the Damaged Tesla Coil, a few crowbars and armour piercing ammo.. Let me put it this way.. With effectively 3x tesla stacked with all those buffs, you essentially just walk around looting. Neither you nor turrets get to shoot anything except extemely tanky bosses.. But then again, that is extremely situational. Requires 2 items, and one i have literally only seen twice.

I try to avoid talking about all the thousands of different ways you can build something with random drops to make a thing 'good', since really the same builds apply to gauss and carbonizer turrets with minor variations.

In short, anything that's 'good' on carbonizers is also about the same amount of 'good' with gauss, only it'll be more controllable and effective with gauss vs. carbonizers.

That's kind of the issue I hit with the mobile turrets. They're not the worst things ever, but compared to their alternate they fall short of being 'good'. Gauss turrets are better in just about every conceivable situation with any build you put together.

Don't get me wrong, I've had good games with the carbonizers but even in those games I found myself wishing I had brought the gauss turrets.

[Xilo The Odd]

has anyone tried stacking Glass shards and other pure damage meta for em to see how they do?

[Mosey]

Originally posted by Xilo The Odd:

has anyone tried stacking Glass shards and other pure damage meta for em to see how they do?

They explode a lot more frequently for sure. Their health is already not great, halving it doesn't work out well for them.

[Xilo The Odd]

Originally posted by Mosey:

Originally posted by Xilo The Odd:

has anyone tried stacking Glass shards and other pure damage meta for em to see how they do?

They explode a lot more frequently for sure. Their health is already not great, halving it doesn't work out well for them.

kinda figured. was hoping maybe someone found a way to break em and make em rediculous in such a fashion. oh well, pew pew meta it is!

[Ittrix]

Originally posted by Mosey:

In short, anything that's 'good' on carbonizers is also about the same amount of 'good' with gauss, only it'll be more controllable and effective with gauss vs. carbonizers.

That's kind of the issue I hit with the mobile turrets. They're not the worst things ever, but compared to their alternate they fall short of being 'good'. Gauss turrets are better in just about every conceivable situation with any build you put together.

Don't get me wrong, I've had good games with the carbonizers but even in those games I found myself wishing I had brought the gauss turrets.

I mean, people really don't like when I say this, but Engy is pretty overpowered in a lot of ways. It's probably not so much that Carbonizer turrets are bad (except for the being good at dying thing >.>) but that Gauss turrets are just really good.
I've been wanting some kind of rework for them, like making their fall-off based on where Engy is as opposed to them, or having them only work/work better if Engy is within a certain range. It'd really separate the mobile turrets from the not mobile ones, probably making them an actual sidegrade.
At the moment, I GAUSS Carbonizers are below Gauss turrets!

[ShuFlngPu]

Originally posted by Ittrix:

Originally posted by Mosey:

In short, anything that's 'good' on carbonizers is also about the same amount of 'good' with gauss, only it'll be more controllable and effective with gauss vs. carbonizers.

That's kind of the issue I hit with the mobile turrets. They're not the worst things ever, but compared to their alternate they fall short of being 'good'. Gauss turrets are better in just about every conceivable situation with any build you put together.

Don't get me wrong, I've had good games with the carbonizers but even in those games I found myself wishing I had brought the gauss turrets.

I mean, people really don't like when I say this, but Engy is pretty overpowered in a lot of ways. It's probably not so much that Carbonizer turrets are bad (except for the being good at dying thing >.>) but that Gauss turrets are just really good.
I've been wanting some kind of rework for them, like making their fall-off based on where Engy is as opposed to them, or having them only work/work better if Engy is within a certain range. It'd really separate the mobile turrets from the not mobile ones, probably making them an actual sidegrade.
At the moment, I GAUSS Carbonizers are below Gauss turrets!

The main problem with the carbonizers is that
A: THey are slow.
B: THey have somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 the range of a stationary turret.
C:They lose the best healing ability (And lowest priority of taking) in the game in regards to engis
D:The have about 1/2 stationary turret damage.
(And stationary scales damage, carbon doesnt)
E:They need time to deal damage and die too fast due to the above.
F:Raw stats are just low all around.
G:Damage Leech is one of highest priority in game for ppl to take and lazer Turr needs them to live. ('live' relative here)
H:Turrets cannot 'sprint' and thus will always be slower than everyone else.
(This causes the turrets to enter a 'catch up' mode in which they will not engage enemies even if taking damage)
I: Due to H, they cannot kite and cannot hold a position and thus; are trash compared to stationary, regardless if stationary is strong or not: Carbonizer weak af.