A mod that changes the scoring system?

[nbst]

I really dislike the scoring system. Having to do way too much exagerated moves just to score an A or better. I feel like 50 or 60 degrees would have been acceptable, but 100 is just ridiculous.

I know I can play the way I feel like and just ignore the score, but with 15 years of background in rhythm games, it's kinda ruining the fun for me to full combo a song perfectly in rhythm and get a B (and I'm still doing fairly wide moves imho, just not ridiculously exagerated ones).

I looked for a mod that would change the rating but could find one - is there one? If not, is that a mod we could see in the future?

[Tenor Sounds]

This is going to come across as if I'm attacking your ego (considering the "15 years of background in rhythm games" line) so I apologize in advance, but Beat Saber is not a traditional rhythm game. This isn't DDR or Hatsune Miku where it's binary yes/no input based on how close you hit a button/react to the notes of a song.

Beat Saber is about form and accuracy as much as it's about being on rhythm. My recommendation is to start on lower difficulties until those are mastered, making sure you're doing smooth, strong, and straight movements; choke down your rhythm-game expectations and don't jump right into Expert/Expert+. The speed-up/speed down modifiers are great for this, as you can do simple patterns quickly or complex patterns slowly based on what you need to work on/improve (normal/hard on 150% speed is a great workout). The movements are only ridiculous and exaggerated if you do not have the strength and coordination to pull them off to the rhythm, so you have to incrementally improve just like any other skill.

I realize you're probably just looking for a mod that takes all of that away and makes it a more traditional rhythm game where your skills will cross over better, but my advice always comes from a place of enjoying the game that Beat Saber is as opposed to the game a particular player wants it to be. Give it a shot, worst-case scenario is you can't get good enough to improve your score and nothing changes, or a mod comes out in the meantime ;)

[Chaunsey]

no, and if there was it would have to require you to be locked out of the leaderboards.


competing on the same scoreboard, with a different set of rules that make it easier to score higher would be cheating.


if you're only competing against yourself anyway, then just play how you want and only compare your scores to yourself, same effect.

[Tenor Sounds]

Originally posted by Chaunsey:

no, and if there was it would have to require you to be locked out of the leaderboards.


competing on the same scoreboard, with a different set of rules that make it easier to score higher would be cheating.


if you're only competing against yourself anyway, then just play how you want and only compare your scores to yourself, same effect.

They're personally bothered by the ranking the game gives you at the end of a song factoring in slice technique more than a full combo/hitting it on-rhythm. They either need a mod that does what they want, or come to terms with how the scoring system works and the kind of technique required to be good at Beat Saber. Clearly they've tried ignoring it and it didn't work.

[nbst]

I wouldn't care being locked out of the leaderboard tbh but I was just hoping for a mod that changes the rank you get, not even the score. Only the score is uploaded to the leaderboard I believe? I really don't care if my score sucks because I'm not waving my arms like crazy, but I would love the rank (S, A, B...) that is visible just for me to not use the default scoring system.

A basic version could rank based on combo only (S for full combo, A for 98+, etc.) and a more advanced version could rank on timing as well. It could even account for hit accuracy, I wouldn't mind that. Just not this 100 degrees rule.

I don't think that would be cheating if the score that is uploaded to the leaderboard remains unchanged and if only the rank displayed in my game is changed. Then I would feel like I want to replay those songs to get a better rank. Right now I'm not going to replay any song that I have already FC'ed.

[nbst]

On a side note I'm not really sure why they thought this scoring system was a good idea. If DDR had forced you to step heavily on the panels just to make sure "you're playing as intended", the competitive game (where everyone steps very lightly) would have died a decade ago.

[nbst]

Originally posted by Tenor Sounds:

*

For some reason I had not seen your post. I'm going to keep playing because it's a great experience anyway and I can see it's not going to be easy to FC all difficulties even ignoring the required arm movements.

I guess I'm just a little disappointed because I expected a new rhythm game (as it's sold by many reviews and even the store page) and in fact it's as much a rhythm game as Rez Infinite is a rhythm game. Stuff happens somewhat in rhythm but that's it. As far as I can tell in Beat Saber the scoring ignores rhythm entirely, the 110 points per note are 100 points for the angle and 10 points for the accuracy, rhythm is not weighted in at all.

[Tenor Sounds]

Originally posted by nbst:

Originally posted by Tenor Sounds:

*

For some reason I had not seen your post. I'm going to keep playing because it's a great experience anyway and I can see it's not going to be easy to FC all difficulties even ignoring the required arm movements.

I guess I'm just a little disappointed because I expected a new rhythm game (as it's sold by many reviews and even the store page) and in fact it's as much a rhythm game as Rez Infinite is a rhythm game. Stuff happens somewhat in rhythm but that's it. As far as I can tell in Beat Saber the scoring ignores rhythm entirely, the 110 points per note are 100 points for the angle and 10 points for the accuracy, rhythm is not weighted in at all.

Beat Saber is a rhythm game, and the rhythm is important because you have to have good rhythm to hit everything correctly and get a high score. Our input is not digital (e.g. on/off like a controller button or dance pad) but something else, something that exists in a 3D space. The developers know this and created a scoring system that capitalizes on this input without losing the core of a rhythm game, which is timing your input based on a level that's mapped to a song. It inherently is based around rhythm and music, it just doesn't use traditional rhythm game input and so it requires tackling it in a bit of a different way. Saying stuff like "it's as much a rhythm game as Rez Infinite is a rhythm game...Stuff happens somewhat in rhythm but that's it" is reductive and misses all of that. When you FC an Expert song and get an SS ranking, you're hitting a level of flow and rhythm that matches (exceeds, imo) other rhythm games I've played, easily.

I love Beat Saber for what it is, so I try to get others to see the good in its design when I can. Even though I have my opinions about the game's intended design, I'll generally advocate for someone doing what they find the most fun and worthwhile, it just makes me a bit sad to see players upset with the game for this specific reason; it's pretty much my favorite thing about the game. I think it at least deserves a fair shot before we start modding away the things that make it what it is, but again it's up to the individual player.

[nbst]

I don't think I can involve myself in a rhythm game where it's not even physically possible to get a perfect score (at least in harder difficulties) but sure I'll give it a try - I'll probably just end up playing my way with my own custom objectives anyway, but I'll definitely keep at it because the gameplay is awesome :)

[LukeBu]

I'm fine with exaggerated movement giving points to a reasonable extent for sure, but it was slightly surprising to see how much points I lost for precisely cutting them exactly in half in line with the arrow over swinging really hard all over the place.

[MisterMeth]

try to exaggerate your movement on expert plus original songs lol. Those are not about rhythm but how fast you can flick your wrist

[SilentCaay]

Originally posted by nbst:

I don't think I can involve myself in a rhythm game where it's not even physically possible to get a perfect score (at least in harder difficulties) but sure I'll give it a try - I'll probably just end up playing my way with my own custom objectives anyway, but I'll definitely keep at it because the gameplay is awesome :)

If it were possible to get perfect scores then a month after a song was released, the top 100 players would all be tied for first. If you want to make a competitive rhythm game then it's best to have a score system where it's possible to approach perfect but not really feasible to achieve it.

The score system works great for this type of rhythm game. It really gets you moving. If they didn't score it this way then everyone would be playing with tiny flicks at the notes trying to get the timing perfect. If you're getting Bs then you need more practice just playing the game, in general. I don't even care about score but I can't imagine getting less than an S rank on Expert songs without even trying.

[nbst]

Originally posted by SilentCaay:

Originally posted by nbst:

I don't think I can involve myself in a rhythm game where it's not even physically possible to get a perfect score (at least in harder difficulties) but sure I'll give it a try - I'll probably just end up playing my way with my own custom objectives anyway, but I'll definitely keep at it because the gameplay is awesome :)

If it were possible to get perfect scores then a month after a song was released, the top 100 players would all be tied for first. If you want to make a competitive rhythm game then it's best to have a score system where it's possible to approach perfect but not really feasible to achieve it.

The score system works great for this type of rhythm game. It really gets you moving. If they didn't score it this way then everyone would be playing with tiny flicks at the notes trying to get the timing perfect. If you're getting Bs then you need more practice just playing the game, in general. I don't even care about score but I can't imagine getting less than an S rank on Expert songs without even trying.

A lot of famous rhythm games allow for perfect scores and yet have a very competitve scene. Take DDR/ITG as an example. It is possible to get AAA/**** which is 100% of the notes with the best timing each, but it's very, very hard - so hard that leaderboards are far, far from filled with them.

I have played a little more and I admit there is something in getting an S with the current system - it feels rewarding in a way.

Ultimately I would love that they introduce a scoring based on the rhythm and give us the choice. Or it could be a different mode. It would be distinct leaderboards in all cases. I would play more the timing mode but I would also play the fitness mode occasionally.

And with that everybody would be happy :)

[Tenor Sounds]

Originally posted by nbst:

Ultimately I would love that they introduce a scoring based on the rhythm and give us the choice. Or it could be a different mode. It would be distinct leaderboards in all cases. I would play more the timing mode but I would also play the fitness mode occasionally.

And with that everybody would be happy :)

I pitched a "Beat Baton" mode in the Feedback/Suggestions section awhile back, where you're smacking notes out of the air instead of slicing through them (i.e it only really cares about timing). It could even have custom effects like the boxes cracking or shattering instead of being sliced. You know, something to give it some personality and make it distinct from "traditional" Beat Saber.

Didn't get too much feedback, but I still think it'd be a fun idea.

[Poison Dart Frag]

Would it hurt too much to add another 10 points or so for hitting the boxes at the precise moment calculated from the length of the track?


edit: I mean not a mod, but a change to the oficial algorithm

[AstroBear]

I'm way late to this party, but I just got the game. As a drummer and as someone who has been involved with a variety of swords-based martial arts and sports I have to agree that the scoring system is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful.

I get that it wants to be different, and that's cool; I really like the idea of adding angles, but if you're gonna call a game a rhythm game it really ought to take rhythm into account, right? A couple people argued that it does take rhythm into account, but it's pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ vague. You could be half a second off and still hit some notes and that is worse than missing in my opinion. For example, if you were to do that playing music, people would throw ♥♥♥♥ at you to try and get you to stop playing. When it comes to music, timing is extremely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ important.

Then there's the accuracy, which is a great idea considering you're using swords, but seems to only count for like 9% of your score which makes it just shy of pointless. When you practice swinging a sword in some styles of swordsmanship like kendo, big angles are important for building the proper musculature, but in actual combat it's all about efficiency. This is obviously way overkill on the thought department for this game, but considering you're using a lightsaber that can cut through just about anything there is no need to develop a lot of power, so small quick movements would be much more effective. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TLDR: If they had simply made the scoring 50% cut accuracy and 50% angle, the game would be drastically better. But basing over 90% of the score on something that is so arbitrary is fairly absurd. I get that they're trying to enforce a cutting form to prevent wiggling, and considering the limitations of VR it's a great idea, but they went way overboard with it.

I really like Tenor's idea of a second scoring mode. DDR did the same thing a while back, by allowing you to change your scoring method and that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Let people enjoy the game both ways; hell, they could even set up a different rank ladder for it if enough people liked it. Oh well, I'mma try to find some mods to make the game more fun for me; lemme know if you ran across any.