More Progression

[Boss]

still upset about boring captain talents btw
One of the MOST SUBSCRIBED mods of all time, easily viewable on the workshop, are the EK Armory/etc mods. These are simple progression mods for your ship, tools, and characters, the sort of basic upgrade system you might see in games like Volcanoids/Once Human/every survival game.

While I've appreciated all the fixes and biome updates, now that those mods have turned into 'legacy' versions requiring other people to pick them up and repeatedly fix, it'd be nice to see an expansion of these features. I personally enjoyed the slow progression to better stuff, or managing the unexpected loss of several of our stuff. It also gave players (if you setup salaries) their own incentive to buy things they need.

[sokolov]

Most if not all items from EK were complete upgrades with no drawbacks whatsoever and didn't really require neither a high skill level nor used relatively costly crafting materials to make.
Some of the mods that "fix" EK either don't do balance very well (if at all) or outright make everything even more overpowered.

[Boss]

Originally posted by Sokolov:

Most if not all items from EK were complete upgrades with no drawbacks whatsoever and didn't really require neither a high skill level nor used relatively costly crafting materials to make.
Some of the mods that "fix" EK either don't do balance very well (if at all) or outright make everything even more overpowered.

What part of "Most subscribed mods" do you not understand? Whatever your personal opinion, they are HIGHLY desired.

There were balances, but yes, that's what an upgrade usually means: it's better. The risk is of course losing it.

I'm not suggesting the dev team update the mods, I'm suggesting the dev team provide further progression and balance it however they see fit.

It took years of asking for progression beyond skill points until we got talents. I'd rather not wait even more years for a progression update.

[Bookslayer10]

EK mods sacrifice quality for quantity. I personally don't like them, and I'd prefer if the devs focus on improving the quality of the many weapons we already have available. For example, more ammo types for vanilla weapons and turrets, better balance for turrets like making the railgun actually good, etc.

[Boss]

They didn't "sacrifice quality for quantity". They're some of the best mods in the entire Workshop. I genuinely don't understand how ANYONE can try to dispute this. They are in the top page of most downloaded, EVEN with multiple versions now existing due to the original mod creator abandoning it.

They had an amazing assortment of unique weapons and armor, weaponry and tools. With several playstyles available and an actual incentive to use your money to buy things. Granted, there are some smaller mods like BaroDrama that do things like hardsuits WAY better.

Again. "Improving what's already there" has been the theme for several patches. But without mods, this game barely has a point to be played anymore. The medical isn't difficult default, there's nothing to really loot of value making you go "wow, that's cool!". Some extra progression is a simple, easy to understand desire.

It's why talents became so damn popular. Again. There were plenty of naysayers about those suggestions with the same tired "just fix the game". It's been years now, I think a content drop is in order.

[sokolov]

Originally posted by Boss:

They're some of the best mods in the entire Workshop. I genuinely don't understand how ANYONE can try to dispute this. They are in the top page of most downloaded, EVEN with multiple versions now existing due to the original mod creator abandoning it.

Because it is the only mod that adds content of all kinds, if there was more similar mods on the workshop there'd be more variety and EK wouldn't be that popular. It's also the case with Neurotrauma or Barotraumatic, people don't bother making their own stuff because why would you if it already exists.
Also a lot of newcomers tend to subscribe & forget on it including people that may not even play for longer than an hour or two or outright refund the game, some people just want to mod a game right away with the most subscribed mods for whatever reason then stop playing.

Originally posted by Boss:

They had an amazing assortment of unique weapons and armor, weaponry and tools. With several playstyles available and an actual incentive to use your money to buy things. Granted, there are some smaller mods like BaroDrama that do things like hardsuits WAY better.

Overpowered items. It was also much, much, much cheaper to craft those items than buy them, almost too cheap. It favors convenience much more than progression.

Originally posted by Boss:

Again. "Improving what's already there" has been the theme for several patches. But without mods, this game barely has a point to be played anymore. The medical isn't difficult default, there's nothing to really loot of value making you go "wow, that's cool!". Some extra progression is a simple, easy to understand desire.

You're just bored of the vanilla game and it's bound to happen sooner or later. Vanilla is fine as it is from a newcomer's perspective as there are a lot of ways to die and much more things to learn, it sometimes can even discourage some from playing.

[Boss]

Originally posted by Sokolov:

Because it is the only mod that adds content of all kinds, if there was more similar mods on the workshop there'd be more variety and EK wouldn't be that popular. It's also the case with Neurotrauma or Barotraumatic, people don't bother making their own stuff because why would you if it already exists.
Also a lot of newcomers tend to subscribe & forget on it including people that may not even play for longer than an hour or two or outright refund the game, some people just want to mod a game right away with the most subscribed mods for whatever reason then stop playing.

Do you understand how to articulate a point? Or even address it correctly? Baseless speculation isn't the way to go. The reality is that it is in the TOP PAGE.

Originally posted by Sokolov:

Overpowered items. It was also much, much, much cheaper to craft those items than buy them, almost too cheap. It favors convenience much more than progression.

Talking about the specific balance of the mod as opposed to addressing the reason it was used as an example: progression. C'mon man.

Originally posted by Sokolov:

You're just bored of the vanilla game and it's bound to happen sooner or later. Vanilla is fine as it is from a newcomer's perspective as there are a lot of ways to die and much more things to learn, it sometimes can even discourage some from playing.

Now this is just plain BS my dude. Don't trawl the suggestions forums to comment stuff like this; thanks.

EK didn't add complexity, it added quantity. That's very easy to understand. Neurotrauma is an example of a complexity mod. This is neither here nor there.

[sokolov]

There is a difference between reading and glancing over.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by Boss:

They didn't "sacrifice quality for quantity". They're some of the best mods in the entire Workshop. I genuinely don't understand how ANYONE can try to dispute this. They are in the top page of most downloaded, EVEN with multiple versions now existing due to the original mod creator abandoning it.

So? Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. It's a massive weapon mod pack, that's like the first thing anyone is going to look for when they get into modding. Sure, the EK mods are some of the most accessible and easy to understand mods, but there are way better mods for actually improving core gameplay systems. The only reason they are so popular is because of inertia and accessibility, not because they are better than all the other mods. Neurotrauma, Realistic Sonar, Immersive Repairs, and Hazardous Reactors are all much higher quality mods that add more to the game IMO.

Anyway, whenever I play EK Armory I always find it to be kinda mid. Security spawns with a full inventory of ammo, weapons, and medicine, which clogs up ship storage and removes all challenge from starting out. IMO we have enough low-tier guns in Barotrauma right now, we don't need 4 different SMG's and 3 different pistols like in EK.

On the other hand, I haven't played through a full campaign with EK Armory, so maybe the mod only gets good once you start unlocking the high tier weaponry. I don't know. If that kind of high tier weaponry is what you want to add in more progression, then maybe? Just as long as there aren't 6 billion different guns that all feel the same to use.

[Boss]

Originally posted by Bookslayer10:

So? Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good.

Cop out.

"Good" is a subjective value. A massive number of people wanting something in a GAME, a product for ENTERTAINMENT, is 100% something to consider.

Thanks for playing. This is a suggestion, not a discussion.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by Boss:

Originally posted by Bookslayer10:

So? Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good.

Cop out.

"Good" is a subjective value. A massive number of people wanting something in a GAME, a product for ENTERTAINMENT, is 100% something to consider.

Thanks for playing. This is a suggestion, not a discussion.

If you haven't noticed, this is a discussion forum, not an Email directly to the devs. The point of posting anything here is to discuss it, if you want the devs to see it then the Discord is the better option.

Anyway, popular things being mediocre is a really simple concept to understand. One McDonalds serves way more people than a fancy restaurant but that doesn't automaticaly make it a good quality restaurant.

[sokolov]

Originally posted by Boss:

"Good" is a subjective value. A massive number of people wanting something in a GAME, a product for ENTERTAINMENT, is 100% something to consider.

And in your opinion do all of those people that subscribed to EK play it everyday, every single second and beg developers to add features similar to that mod in countless posts? You seem to be the first so far.

Just because it was subscribed to many times does not mean that the same people still actively play the game or actively use the mod, again you are just ignoring me pointing out the obvious and you're getting all upset like a wee baby because you want your opinion to be answer so badly.

[Boss]

Originally posted by Sokolov:

Originally posted by Boss:

"Good" is a subjective value. A massive number of people wanting something in a GAME, a product for ENTERTAINMENT, is 100% something to consider.

And in your opinion do all of those people that subscribed to EK play it everyday, every single second and beg developers to add features similar to that mod in countless posts? You seem to be the first so far.

Just because it was subscribed to many times does not mean that the same people still actively play the game or actively use the mod, again you are just ignoring me pointing out the obvious and you're getting all upset like a wee baby because you want your opinion to be answer so badly.

This is cope. You have no proof, you're just trying to say "Steam subs don't matter". Please tell me how they don't matter.

People wanted it, and still do. There's newer versions that are also climbing the subscription amounts. Like, please stop with the massive cope.

Originally posted by Sokolov:

And in your opinion do all of those people that subscribed to EK play it everyday, every single second and beg developers to add features similar to that mod in countless posts? You seem to be the first so far.

I'm going to address this twice because the cope is unbelievable in this statement.

Not only is the legacy version of EK armory on the most most subscribed, but so is the REBOOT from a DIFFERENT AUTHOR, which was the 1.x.x.x all in one pack. On top of the re-reboot that's now climbing (but isn't in the top three pages, oh no!). There is no situation on Earth where this isn't an OBVIOUS INDICATION of POPULARITY. To the point that other mods patch for it, or even reference it (Like Barotraumatic). On top of that, you can easily GLOSS OVER the top three subscription pages to see what players are into:
New Subs
and
CONTENT MODS

From the old Saber, to Armaments, to monster packs. From BaroDrama to Backpacks. It's EXTRA PROGRESSION.

Asking for a CONTENT UPDATE on PROGRESSION is NOT something a "small" number of players want.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by Boss:

Asking for a CONTENT UPDATE on PROGRESSION is NOT something a "small" number of players want.

I'm sure everyone would agree that more content and progression is good, the issue is HOW that content is added. I don't like how EK adds tons of guns that all feel the same to me, that takes away from the experience.

I'd much rather have content expansions that make systems more complicated so that more items feel needed, instead of just pointless bloat. For example, Neurotrauma, Immersive Repairs, or other expansion mods like those.

Now, those mods are often stereotyped as extremely difficult and unfun, but that's just the default settings - by switching some numbers, they can be changed to be balanced, easy to learn, and hard to master. I'd much rather the devs add content along those lines instead of following EK as an example.