Thoughts on the Talent reworks?

[GameJayRemy]

What do you like and what don't you like?
I've never been too dependent of them personally so I don't care too much.

Though I read once you invest in a tree, your fully committed to that tree until you hit the last level before you can spend in any other. Thats the only thing I don't care for; Still, for me its not too big of an issue.

On the like side;
The talent that lets two little drones follow you around sure sounds pretty stellar.

[sokolov]

I miss tinkering.

[Richard Roe]

A step in the right direction but currently counter-intuitive
The 2 teirs of generic perks you must sink 4 points into BEFORE getting into the specilization trees takes away choice when they should give options

I personaly would like to see it made so the 3 trees are the main build and the generics fill out and add onto the player's chosen main tree, because as it stands compleating zone 1 and having a fully upgraded ship and no one YET has begun to get their perk tree STARTED feels all KINDS of wrong, Ive not been on a single crew that wasn't zone 2+ with even half of a tree started (and if they are they loaded UP on condemnation medals in custom ships)

EDIT: the current perk/talents make it so EVERY level 1 you go for ANY and all EXP bonus instead of trying to branch out, and the "does not stack with other players" makes for annoying "stepping on eachother's feet" moments

[Hydremajor117]

ATM it feels like the new skill system is just a way to nerf every class back down so barotrauma can be a "horror" game...

So overall, I'd rate it a "poor man's resident evil on PS1" out of ten

[☭Dictatorship™]

Talents seem boring now
You have less to do and have less of an impact on the sub

[Botanist with a salt shotgun]

It feels like instead of upping difficulty in a meaningful way, Dev team tried to water down classes to increase difficulty. In doing so, removed variation in classes and removed a lot of aspects that made them fun. Also personally offended by the heavyhanded clown nerf.

[Coffee Cat]

I think they took all the fun out of captain because all the talents are passive stat increases.
You don't do anything with your talents. You just stand there and everyone's becomes little better at what they already do.

It doesn't feel like a captain anymore. It feels like a silent bard, the most boring type of bard.

[Hydremajor117]

Originally posted by Undead Dan:

I think they took all the fun out of captain because all the talents are passive stat increases.
You don't do anything with your talents. You just stand there and everyone's becomes little better at what they already do.

It doesn't feel like a captain anymore. It feels like a silent bard, the most boring type of bard.

and don't forget, the skill cap is 100 instead of the 200 of the previous system when you specialised in it

[GameJayRemy]

Originally posted by Richard Roe:

A step in the right direction but currently counter-intuitive
The 2 teirs of generic perks you must sink 4 points into BEFORE getting into the specilization trees takes away choice when they should give options....

...EDIT: the current perk/talents make it so EVERY level 1 you go for ANY and all EXP bonus instead of trying to branch out, and the "does not stack with other players" makes for annoying "stepping on eachother's feet" moments

This sounds like the worst of it to me, taking away the ability to start building your character out right away and being forced to to build a certain way until you hit X level

Originally posted by Undead Dan:

I think they took all the fun out of captain because all the talents are passive stat increases.
You don't do anything with your talents. You just stand there and everyone's becomes little better at what they already do.

It doesn't feel like a captain anymore. It feels like a silent bard, the most boring type of bard.

That does sound like the captains role though. Personally I only used captian to steer and buff characters any how then just switch roles. Course that doesn't take into account the play ability in multiplayer which I haven't really don't much of.

Originally posted by Botanist with a salt shotgun:

It feels like instead of upping difficulty in a meaningful way, Dev team tried to water down classes to increase difficulty. In doing so, removed variation in classes and removed a lot of aspects that made them fun. Also personally offended by the heavyhanded clown nerf.

I'll have to give it a look, that was normally the first assistant type I would build in SP

[Hallowedsoul08]

in case people don't like the new talent trees....

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2901859934&searchtext=

[Coffee Cat]

Originally posted by GameJayRemy:

That does sound like the captains role though. Personally I only used captian to steer and buff characters any how then just switch roles. Course that doesn't take into account the play ability in multiplayer which I haven't really don't much of.

Why do people reduce the captain's role that of a cheerleader or bard and then act like it has to be boring to counter their quality of life buffs? You can do the same thing and make the role feel like a captain.

Being drunk could increase submarine speed.
A pet recipe (parrot, monkey. mini-mudraptor etc.) that provides buffs while it's alive instead of a cigar recipe that's essentially the same thing as both the captain's pipe and harmonica.
A bonus to repairs on rooms you mark.
A bonus to actions on people you give orders to.
Anything to help the turrets.

There's a lot of room for creativity for the talents but it's like they gave up when they reached the captain.

[GameJayRemy]

Originally posted by Undead Dan:

Why do people reduce the captain's role that of a cheerleader or bard and then act like it has to be boring to counter their quality of life buffs? You can do the same thing and make the role feel like a captain.

Being drunk could increase submarine speed.
A pet recipe (parrot, monkey. mini-mudraptor etc.) that provides buffs while it's alive instead of a cigar recipe that's essentially the same thing as both the captain's pipe and harmonica.
A bonus to repairs on rooms you mark.
A bonus to actions on people you give orders to.
Anything to help the turrets.

There's a lot of room for creativity for the talents but it's like they gave up when they reached the captain.

Because the Captains role is to steer the ship, inspire confidence through leadership so the crew can work to the best of their abilities. And nobody has acted like it has to be boring.

You just included two that are in the same vein with marking rooms and giving orders, which the giving orders for boons existed before the update.

Other than "I want this" Being drunk to increase speed for the submarine doesn't make any sense to me. Some kinda self buff to the captain himself maybe, like damage resistance or something while having it have some effect on your vision.

A pet recipe sounds cool but seems out of place for the role also, though I could see it on the medic.

Originally posted by Princess Muu-Muu:

It needs another rehaul.

I think the main issue with the perks is how the developers are interpreting them vs how the players are. The players are expecting the perks to give your class unique abilities or access to things that other classes cant do to make them all have a unique place on the ship. The developers are using perks as a means to make player characters tankier or do more damage as the campaign progresses.

The simple solution (which would involve yet another rehaul) would be to make player levels a thing in which every time a player levels up they get a small % bonus to something like health, speed. damage resis, damage, etc. Make that entirely separate from perks which would be job oriented and give your characters unique gameplay variety.

The wanting a unique experience is certainly the way to go, they did it with the crafting recipes a class would gain. Each character should have some kind of impact that is role related, and I agree with the stats suggestion. I think that would help greatly in making the character feel like its yours while building and not so generic.

[MegaMan]

I miss the old Assistant, where clowns were powerful. Now, you can't even breathe underwater without oxygen. The toy hammer went from a funny gimmick to next to useless. 5 out of the 8 non-skill tree talents for assistant are next to useless, if not worse than useless.

[Prorab]

I won't go into details, but it's clearly not what I needed. EVERY class should be useful. There should be a problem what skills are really needed, Mechanic should not be SB, Assistant should not be ANY class (let him be TOTEM), Medic is not only genes, Electrician is not only shields and reactor, And the captain is the heart and engine of the team and not ballast with an alien flora. Where is MY saber, where are the orders, why do I need a recipe for a revolver? ROLLBACK!

[Hydremajor117]

IMO Captain role could've buffed other crewmates when they did their jobs;

While a captain helms the ship he can forward sonar data to the gunners so they can get a visual indicator of where ennemies are, and have it only work once ennemies are within sonar range

Make it so the captain helming the ship makes the engines use less power

Make it so if the captain helms the ship he can make the sub more resistant to ramming/crashing or even inflict damage on enemies impacting the ship if they're in the way of its momentum

Make it so the Captain helming the ship results in added acceleration
(not top speed, how fast you get to top speed)

Make it so the Captain can buy sub upgrades at a lower price based on his Helm skill

Make it so the captain can use a "overclock" that forces every system on the sub to get a performance boost based on his Helm stat but while its active all systems on board take damage while they are used

make it about the captain ACTUALLY pulling some crazy taxi bullsh*t when driving a sub

[GameJayRemy]

Originally posted by Prorab:

I won't go into details, but it's clearly not what I needed. EVERY class should be useful. There should be a problem what skills are really needed, Mechanic should not be SB, Assistant should not be ANY class (let him be TOTEM), Medic is not only genes, Electrician is not only shields and reactor, And the captain is the heart and engine of the team and not ballast with an alien flora. Where is MY saber, where are the orders, why do I need a recipe for a revolver? ROLLBACK!

I don't agree with rolling it back, just use the posted mod. The classes in my opinion, while fun, weren't too great to begin with. I I just ended up building nearly every class the same, the only exception for me were the assistants. I would agree with reworking the rework a bit, apply perks that actually make sense for the role without overlapping those abilities with other roles.

Originally posted by Hydremajor117:

IMO Captain role could've buffed other crewmates when they did their jobs;

While a captain helms the ship he can forward sonar data to the gunners so they can get a visual indicator of where ennemies are, and have it only work once ennemies are within sonar range

Make it so the captain helming the ship makes the engines use less power

Make it so if the captain helms the ship he can make the sub more resistant to ramming/crashing or even inflict damage on enemies impacting the ship if they're in the way of its momentum

Make it so the Captain helming the ship results in added acceleration
(not top speed, how fast you get to top speed)

Make it so the Captain can buy sub upgrades at a lower price based on his Helm skill

Make it so the captain can use a "overclock" that forces every system on the sub to get a performance boost based on his Helm stat but while its active all systems on board take damage while they are used

make it about the captain ACTUALLY pulling some crazy taxi bullsh*t when driving a sub

Yes!! These are the kinda things I would appreciate, skill that really fit the role.