Why do people set the max player count on servers so high?

[YellowKnight]

I don't understand. 10 players (11 actually, because the host doesn't count towards the players I guess) on an Orca? Do any hosts have a reason for this, and if so, I'd like to know why.

[sokolov]

Cluelessness, trying to add to the chaos, thinking that more players == easier game.
I think it also defaults to like 8-12 players whenever hosting for first time so I guess people just give in to game's suggestion.
I'd honestly prefer it if it'd default to like 6 at least.

[The Flaming Pike]

I believe that's mostly just newbies who don't really understand everything just yet. There's a lot of settings and they may be overwhelmed by the game itself. With this in mind, it's kinda a natural reaction to have as many people playing as possible so the various aspects of the game can be taken care of while they figure things out... It's just that all of this does not necessarily applies to Barotrauma in particular. And they get to learn that the hard way.

[Lyn]

I usually host private campaigns with friends, though I alwayys set the player count as high as I can as we often get other friends wanting to join in. Sometimes our crew is about 3-4 people, other times it is 10+ lol.

[EmotionallyBroken]

Entertainment :)

[rgarrett]

why play anyways

servers always just drop people

DESYNC KICK barotrauam network sux always drops people from everygame with some error

i have 35-40mbits upload and 1000 1200 download

usually when people join just one person they have red ping
is my speed that bad?
any suggestions i have cable

constantly happening how do we fix this its nonstop
players in my server DC constantly and have to rejoin nonstop
ports forwarded

same issues garbage network cant play

Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??

[jeetrix]

whats wrong w 11 ppl on an orca?

[jeetrix]

but seriously, i have like hosted +1000h of baro games and i will definitely do this from time to time. not always, it depends on my own energy levels. 6man ppl tend to get a bit boring. If i am in a strong good mood i will usually allow more ppl. i start the session at 8 and will ramp up to 12 or even more, while the game is going on if i feel i have the mindspace for it. The ship size is not relevant.

Bigger crews can be so much more fun. On the other hand, if i'm tired of a bit lowish, i'll prefer smaller sessions, and even put on a pw so i dont have to deal w random trolls. But overall it could be anything in between.

short answer: for fun

[YellowKnight]

Originally posted by jeetrix:

whats wrong w 11 ppl on an orca? :captainclown:

There are multiple reasons for my disapproval of there being 11 people on an Orca. If we are to take the Average Room Maximum Occupancy from the Barotrauma wiki for the Orca, it would appear that in an average room, there can only be 5.7 people before they start suffocating. This is not ideal, since when there's gonna be a party in the command-gunnery room (Or two escort missions worth of people), some will have to wear a diving mask!

Furthermore, as detailed on by Sokolov (The first comment), there is an increased amount of chaos, griefers, ect. Noting you want in a serious campaign, right?

Another reason; Such a high amount of crew will of course equal more consumer goods, and medicine consumption. Three mudraptors can deal a lot more damage to a densely packed group than a spread out crew, especially with an irresponsible security officer (Or a griefer), which is more likely in a bigger crew. Also, if you want a beersie, chance is the assistant wants one too, and also maybe the captain too (Don't leave out the mechanic!). This can be a big drain on the resources, and money.
Of course, some people prefer to deal with this problem by leaving the welding fuel empty, the medical cabinet with trace amounts of opium, and the crew pay zero, which is certainly a solution, but not one making your crew have high morale.

Many of these problems can be resolved by setting the player count to a number like 6 or 5. You usually do not need more than that for a vanilla sub (And probably some modded ones too!).

[YellowKnight]

Originally posted by EmotionallyBroken:

Entertainment :)

Damn, I guess way more people than I thought enjoy griefers, chaos, and being overwhelemed than I thought.

[Evil Factory]

Originally posted by rgarrett:

why play anyways

servers always just drop people

DESYNC KICK barotrauam network sux always drops people from everygame with some error

i have 35-40mbits upload and 1000 1200 download

usually when people join just one person they have red ping
is my speed that bad?
any suggestions i have cable

constantly happening how do we fix this its nonstop
players in my server DC constantly and have to rejoin nonstop
ports forwarded

same issues garbage network cant play

Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??Reason event desync (waiting for old event) ??

your upload speed is kinda really slow, I would try to get your ISP to increase that, 1000/30 is very scummy

[jeetrix]

Originally posted by YellowKnight:

...
Many of these problems can be resolved by setting the player count to a number like 6 or 5. You usually do not need more than that for a vanilla sub (And probably some modded ones too!).

its more about want than need i guess. Sure these are all very good arguments from the standpoint of wanting to play a serious campaign with a more or less fixed crew. But honestly, a room that has so many people in, ox is drained, its not really an issue. Theres the rest of the ship.

Your line of thought is focused at the crew size from a meta-perspective (wanting to minimise griefers and keeping stocks neat & organised ) but there are many other aspects that are reasons for hosts to up the player count. Not every host is focused on avoiding griefers at any cost. i mean, the more you host, the less grief becomes a determining factor in setting up games. You kinda grow out of the fear, caus yeah , 33% or more ppl are griefers, so you can't avoid it anyways :-) it even goes this far , that at times, if i host an evening session of +6h , and no griefers are coming, it tends to be a bit boring. Chasing griefers can add a lot of energy to a crew and reinforce the bonds of your loyal players. And lets be honest , grief, the word in itself, is kinda a hollow term. Sure there are toxic players that just want to wreck things, but theres also simply unexperienced players, or players that dont care or are not really invested in thecampaign, they hop on , have some fun , eat an egg, ... they just dont care about your campaign. Is that the same as someone deviously trying to ruin the experience? imho its not. But yeh, we call it grief either way. the point i'm making here is, not all 'grief' is malice. some is just fairly innocent.

A bigger crew does come with a few advantages, but it requires patience and experience to handle it i think. it all depends on how you look at it. The main advantages of big crews are more vigilance (more eyes), more accumulation of (certain) materials , more hands to manage crisis, better overall survivabilty (the more crew, the more chance at least someone will survive a major crisis) and an overall more interesting story.

For me there are roughly 3 kinds of players you can get as a host. Teamplayers, role players and egotrippers. griefers fall in the last category. When playing a campaign you want to max out on the first 2. and the more people you allow into your game, the more chance you will get one of those 2 types. when a crew hits a certain size, people will also start forming sub-groups and specialise more, and it makes for another kind of experience (imho a better one) . Offc you would not want to stay indefinitely on an orca with a big crew. Ships like the typhon series, winterhalter , kastrull, they all go well with 12-man crews.

another aspect of bigger crews is, it allows for more play styles. On a big crew , half of them can be like low-performance, and you are still able to progress. On a 6 man crew, if 3 ppl decide they want to clown around, you are stuck. now i am the type of host that likes to clown around, i often play an assistant as a host and i put big crews so i dont have to carry everything all the time. When the crew hits a certain synergy and size, it creates a situation where I as a host can chill out a bit and get to know people without having to constantly manage progress. Thats the way I like it.

maybe a last pro-argument for big crews is the traitor-line. Traitor missions are far more interesting on +8 man crews. And they offer a really nice layer to the game. at least a traitor who needs to rip the hosts ID , has a chance on a decent crew count.

As long as you dont let griefers dominate/ruin your game, crew size is not an issue. But you need to know as a host whats going on because it is very true there is a direct relationship between size and amount of chaos , therefore some experience is kinda mandatory to handle large crews.

hope this clarifies some of the reasoning behind hosts putting large crew sizes :D

[Kairi ♡]

Because most players will die in most stupid way, so you need a lot of spares.

[YellowKnight]

Originally posted by jeetrix:

Your line of thought is focused at the crew size from a meta-perspective (wanting to minimise griefers and keeping stocks neat & organised ) but there are many other aspects that are reasons for hosts to up the player count. Not every host is focused on avoiding griefers at any cost. i mean, the more you host, the less grief becomes a determining factor in setting up games. You kinda grow out of the fear, caus yeah , 33% or more ppl are griefers, so you can't avoid it anyways :-) it even goes this far , that at times, if i host an evening session of +6h , and no griefers are coming, it tends to be a bit boring. Chasing griefers can add a lot of energy to a crew and reinforce the bonds of your loyal players. And lets be honest , grief, the word in itself, is kinda a hollow term. Sure there are toxic players that just want to wreck things, but theres also simply unexperienced players, or players that dont care or are not really invested in thecampaign, they hop on , have some fun , eat an egg, ... they just dont care about your campaign. Is that the same as someone deviously trying to ruin the experience? imho its not. But yeh, we call it grief either way. the point i'm making here is, not all 'grief' is malice. some is just fairly innocent.

Well, for me at least, the main driving point for small crews is that it is way less chaotic. You can get to know everybody, know what they do, what their goals are, ect.. Though, I guess this could be because I enjoy roleplay servers more than other ones, which natually leads to such a mode of thinking. I just hate chaos mate.
Hm. The only encounter with griefers I've had is rigging bombs, blowing up the reactor, or dropping equipment into the sea. Boring stuff. Like, you just look at the logs, and kick the griefer or shoot him. The thing about small crews, is that the less crew there are, the less likely this is to happen, and you have to deal with this less. I don't know about "being disinterested in the campaign" counting as griefing, like if you honk a horn constantly, that's not deserving of a kick, but of a stun baton. Just do your job man, and make "preformance enchancing medication" too I guess.

Originally posted by jeetrix:

A bigger crew does come with a few advantages, but it requires patience and experience to handle it i think. it all depends on how you look at it. The main advantages of big crews are more vigilance (more eyes), more accumulation of (certain) materials , more hands to manage crisis, better overall survivabilty (the more crew, the more chance at least someone will survive a major crisis) and an overall more interesting story.

These are all valid points for big crews, but I think their usefulness depends quite a bit on the circumstances.
More vigilance depends on whenever it is actually needed, for example a smaller crew will need less vigilance than a bigger one.
Accumulation of certain materials... Like iron from the tools and fiber from the clothes? I guess that's not a bad thing, but there's got to be cheaper alternatives.
More hands to manage crisis, well, can't argue with that, can I? The only question is if it outweighs the chaos, and if a smaller number would suffice.

Better survivability, well can't argue with that either, more crew means more people are gonna hide in the ballast when the mudraptors attack.

More interesting story, well, yeah I guess.

The thing is, would these suffer much when there's less than 12 people on a Barsuk? I mean, I don't think so.

Originally posted by jeetrix:

For me there are roughly 3 kinds of players you can get as a host. Teamplayers, role players and egotrippers. griefers fall in the last category. When playing a campaign you want to max out on the first 2. and the more people you allow into your game, the more chance you will get one of those 2 types. when a crew hits a certain size, people will also start forming sub-groups and specialise more, and it makes for another kind of experience (imho a better one) . Offc you would not want to stay indefinitely on an orca with a big crew. Ships like the typhon series, winterhalter , kastrull, they all go well with 12-man crews.

I disagree with maxing out on the first 2 types of players, or more accurately, maxing out players at all, for the reasons I mentioned in the first comment. It's just chaotic, can't keep track of anything, ect., even with only these people (In my opinion at least).

I'll be honest, I have never in my life seen something like a subgroup on a Barotrauma server happen. Maybe it's because I don't play a lot of big servers, but I assume it would take a lot of regular playing on that specific server, since things like that just don't come out of nowhere. Would it be something like a mutiny group or a clown group or something?

I don't know. 12 people still seems like way too much. Increasing to 8 people seems to fit in the recommended crew of most big subs except the Berilia, and there's always bots that can help.

Originally posted by jeetrix:

maybe a last pro-argument for big crews is the traitor-line. Traitor missions are far more interesting on +8 man crews. And they offer a really nice layer to the game. at least a traitor who needs to rip the hosts ID , has a chance on a decent crew count.

I kind of agree. The sub needs to be big too though, otherwise you can't hide anything. Though, I think traitor missions are interesting enough on a 6-crew server (Actually 7 because yes)

Originally posted by jeetrix:

As long as you dont let griefers dominate/ruin your game, crew size is not an issue. But you need to know as a host whats going on because it is very true there is a direct relationship between size and amount of chaos , therefore some experience is kinda mandatory to handle large crews.

The problem i have with big crew sizes is that it doesn't only affect the host. These problems I mentioned before can also affect the ordinary crew member. I guess people who don't care much can have fun regardless, but some that do care could have problems with such a thing. And, not to generalize, but with the sheer amount of high player count servers, I don't think everyone can just handle that.

I hope this kind of explains why I don't like the majority of servers.

[Bread]

I like chaos

[Evil Factory]

I prefer servers with high player count, but I don't really play campaign so