Getting started? Basic combat?

[MOK]

Starting solo, as I assume it's very bad form to do multiplayer on your first day. I've done all the tutorials and started a new campaign a couple times. And the first couple groups of crawlers utterly mess me up on most replays and reloads.

Checking steam guides, I don't see anything oriented towards a practical "this is how to deal with encounters effectively." I've read a few, but nonetheless I just see useless rehashes of the tutorial, or I see detailed mechanics info. Fine and normal but they aren't applicable. I feel like I'm missing something, as a decently designed game tends to teach you how to respond to basic situations effectively, or at least what 'normal' looks like, and I assume crawlers are a basic encounter. But if this is in the game, apparently I'm not getting the message.

Understanding that I've been in a few already, what do average combat encounters typically look like? Am I meant to largely avoid them? Are hull breaches utterly normal? Am I supposed to be intercepting them with turrets reliably? What does an standard-expert example of a situation like this look like? What are the actions the player is doing in the opening phase? When they start banging on the hull, what should I be focusing on?
Etc.

[uncleflagzz]

Well, your typical combat encounters against Crawlers for example should basically go like this: you spot the on your sonar, man the weapons or give the AI commands to man the guns for you and they'll start shooting, also have some AI crewmates on the "Fix Leaks" command so they can fix any breaches the Crawlers may make. If there are too many Crawlers(in later stages of the game where the difficulty is very high) then they'll eventually breach and enter your sub, at that point just put on your Diving Suit and fight them with whatever weapons you have available

I don't know if in the scenario you specified you used AI crewmates or not, while the game is possible to play solo, it's highly recommended to play with a crew(AI or player) even 2 extra AI crewmates help, that can just complete various tasks that you may not want to do, just give them the command and they'll be on it.

[uncleflagzz]

Oh, also another thing I forgot to mention, you can also make your sub in the opposite direction of the Crawlers when they spot you, this way they'll reach your sub way slower and you'll have more time to shoot them(assuming they are in the line of sight of your guns when you position the sub) altho I only did this as a Captain when I played with my friends, where I just steered the sub away so the Crawlers won't reach us and my friends could shoot them in the meantime

[FourGreenFields]

Find a noob-friendly crew and MP is much more beginner-friendly than SP.

Use active sonar by default. "Use active sonar" = toggle it on for a moment to generate a ping - while "on" the passive sonar is disabled for some reason, but if you toggle it you get info from both. Magic... Anyway, being sneaky may allow you to avoid an encounter or two, but active sonar allows you to see where hostiles are coming from and react accordingly. And it may still allow you to avoid mudraptors, crawlers, and molochs.

Once you see any, try to manoeuvre so that they are in the field of fire of a turret. If at all possible, also move so that your sub is moving away from them, to maximise the time your turrets can fire.

Don't cruise on max throttle (in most subs, anyway). Slower speed gives you more reaction-time, and means you can reverse more quickly (-> move away from hostiles).

Keep in mind the location of any discharge coils your sub has. Those can stun any stunnable creatures (crawlers, mudraptors, husks, humans...).

Once they're gnawing on your hull it depends a bit. Maybe you can ram them into a cave-wall and damage or kill them that way. Maybe you can still move them into the FoF of a turret. Discharge coil to make that easier, if one is covering that area. Letting creatures in is an option, but usually not preferable.

[kingmagma111]

Especially for solo your biggest concern should be breach prevention. Bots don’t handle intruders well, their AI is notoriously bad at handling it and they tend to run around uselessly in an emergency. There are ways to deal with that, but for a beginner I would focus on preventing breaches in the first place.
The first thing to do is to assign your AI to operate guns. They tend to blow through ammo a little too hastily but are moderately accurate (very accurate with the pulse laser). However, if you’re at the very start and can’t spare the crew, here are some monster specific combat tips:

With crawlers, you ought to focus on killing 1 or 2 of them and then speeding away. Crawlers are cannibalistic and will consume their dead, which gives you a chance to escape. If it’s a larger swarm or they’re ignoring the corpses for some reason, spray your gunfire around a little to get them to retreat/deal consistent damage to the group.

Spinelings are a pain. Fire carefully and lead your shots (aim a little ahead, where you think they will be) as they are fast and maneuverable. Focus on taking them down one at a time, if you spray fire you might get lucky and land some hits but they’ll probably dodge most of it. The good news is that they cannot enter your sub, however, they fire projectiles that pierce through multiple hulls.

Mudraptors are a little tankier, but they spawn in relatively small groups so focus on killing each one individually. They are probably the worst individual monsters to have break into your sub but if you focus on landing shots, they probably won’t even get in side.

Hammerheads are big and cannot enter the sub but a single hit will 9 times out of 10 sink any given starter sub. They can be dissuaded with enougn concentrated fire, so like mudraptors, focus on hitting them one at a time. They only spawn in groups of 1-2 at the very beginning so you should be ok.
Those 4 are the main ones you’re going to see at the beginning. I hope these tips help you deal with them with minimal breaches/ammo wasting.

[Aizuki]

this game more like crisis management, you start as 3 crew (captain,engineer and mechanics), for me engineer always on gun and mechanics always do hull repair since breach will ruin you if monster get inside with only 3 crew.
the :
1st thing : you need know your submarine well, where the blind spot and where the electro coil. ex: dugong has blindspot at top right without gun but have discharge coil on it so if enemy banging your hull there, fire the discharge then goes hard dive so the top left coil can intercept it
2nd : buy crew +3 from submarine recomend it, security always need filled on gun, mechanics always need more, engineer only need 1 (can use WAIT command on junction compartment on last order while repair broken junction at first)
3rd : always keep track your fuel rod, welding tank and ship gun ammo, else are optional

[MOK]

Thank you. Well, I've done all those actions on a few repeats. I've slowed down, I kite them a little bit until they catch up, I have the default starting crew AI orders to repair queued up, and AI manning the appropriate gun, I try to put them in my firing arc. Sometimes this can get one or two, but more often they're faster or aren't at the right angle, and so they get on my hull and inside.

I've also tried making sure at least one crew is armed, and give the order to fight invaders, but mostly I assume it's down to the captain with their revolver. I can off one or two but the rush of water and crowding complicate things. Half the time, the cap goes unconscious and the other AI aren't particularly effective at dealing with the rest if there's more than one.

Either way, I'm not reliably avoiding a total mess even though I think I've utilized each of these tips.

Except for the discharge coil. I think I recall seeing something about this, but I don't know where that is, and don't recall a tutorial explanation, nor any crew commands relating to it. This isn't a standard weapon, right? It's some kind of pulse? Is this the missing piece that puts the average situation in control? Because otherwise, this still doesn't add up.

[MOK]

Originally posted by kingmagma111:

Especially for solo your biggest concern should be breach prevention.

Based on what you plug down in the rest of this post, I'm getting the impression this game is all about seeing them first, getting the first shots, and backpedaling. Is that basically 80% of the combat? I certainly hope not...

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by MOK:

Except for the discharge coil. I think I recall seeing something about this, but I don't know where that is, and don't recall a tutorial explanation, nor any crew commands relating to it. This isn't a standard weapon, right? It's some kind of pulse? Is this the missing piece that puts the average situation in control? Because otherwise, this still doesn't add up.

It's an unaimable submarine weapon. Typically triggered by a button on the navterminal, but more generally by any "trigger" signal (which is any non-0, non-NULL signal, I think). Similar to detonators in that regard.

Stuns, deals minor burns.
https://barotraumagame.com/wiki/Electrical_Discharge_Coil

[MOK]

Honestly this first impression is irritating me. I assumed that this would be a decently crafted and polished 1.0 release that has a standard onboarding experience ready to go. I'm so tired of half-baked products from the flood of early-access, and assumed that this one was ready for showtime since it's term in early access looked pretty long.

[2D > 3D WEEB 4 LIFE]

Originally posted by MOK:

Based on what you plug down in the rest of this post, I'm getting the impression this game is all about seeing them first, getting the first shots, and backpedaling.

The main idea is to prevent enemies, especially monsters, from getting into melee range with you as they will generally overpower you either through damage or stuns unless you're enhanced with either drugs or equipment.

Is that basically 80% of the combat? I certainly hope not...

The majority of combat within the submarine is centered around using the guns to whittle down anything that lives in the water before it gets close.

With that being said you will eventually have to venture outside the submarine into the open water(s) for a variety of reasons which means that you will have to engage in close range and melee combat a lot more. You will also face a variety of human(oid) enemies which will involve melee, explosives and firearms combined with different types of armors and medicine management.

PvP is a separate mode which is for the most part centered around human versus human combat that involves (boarding) submarines.

[DuckieMcduck]

Actually Singleplayer is the most difficult mode, as you must understand every role (because you'll be in charge of them all) and Multiplayer is the place where nobody knows what they are doing and come to learn things a step a time.

I felt partial guilt reading the OP because I was writing a guide in the making for combat and understanding the sonar but I stopped waiting for 1.0 - oops.

Long story short combat is not good for your ship in most cases, if you're not in kill mission then killing things is largely a waste of resources.

Originally posted by MOK:

Originally posted by kingmagma111:

Especially for solo your biggest concern should be breach prevention.

Based on what you plug down in the rest of this post, I'm getting the impression this game is all about seeing them first, getting the first shots, and backpedaling. Is that basically 80% of the combat? I certainly hope not...

More like you'll be repositioning the ship to get the weapons in range as the beasties start going around the blindspots - you'll rarely be able to outrun creatures after they become alerted. The guns don't provide 100% coverage, and if you get a breach your mobility becomes limited since vertical movement is based off buoyancy (the amount of water inside the ship dictates the up/down speed).

You may also deploys Sonar Decoys with a Depth Charge in some subs, or use a handheld Sonar Beacon/Flares/Glowsticks to distract creatures. Outside of that, you should employ the Sonar sparingly because >2 beeps will alert most kinds of swarms.

Originally posted by MOK:

Honestly this first impression is irritating me. I assumed that this would be a decently crafted and polished 1.0 release that has a standard onboarding experience ready to go. I'm so tired of half-baked products from the flood of early-access, and assumed that this one was ready for showtime since it's term in early access looked pretty long.

The game has been "ready" and playable by thousands of people, with a constant stream of updates for years. It just has a gargantuan amount of mechanics that you will never learn within whatever fast-food indie timeframe you're thinking of. The 1.0 was the campaign update which adds an ending to the "persistent mission" mode.

Be ready to sink a lot before you learn how to swim - that's the design and I assure you it works. You may refer to the wiki if you wish to learn things without surprise, but it's not as fun:

https://barotraumagame.com/wiki/Main_Page

[MOK]

Originally posted by UnluckyDuckie:

Long story short combat is not good for your ship in most cases, if you're not in kill mission then killing things is largely a waste of resources.
(....)
Outside of that, you should employ the Sonar sparingly because >2 beeps will alert most kinds of swarms.

Very good to know, and good perspective shift.
Although with that second part, this highlights that there's two contradictory needs that can only be reconciled within a very tight 2-ping window. Whereas I keep active sonar on most of the time since I don't know the terrain and need to keep contacts at a particular facing, and then QUICK QUICK QUICK turn sonar off the moment a ping looks like a creature.
I guess that's fair, but I suppose this means the solo player is glued to the sonar unless they're zero m/s.

So this makes me figure my new plan is to try to slip past quietly as often as possible, avoid most combat, but position to be ready for it. And to tactically pray I don't collide into a new cliff as I blindly sneak past... But maybe positional will be fine for the task. If this bid fails, optimally I'm better off moving forward and shooting behind me, with a coil positioned and ready to go if they catch up or aggro me before I'm passing.

Would that be considered the standard-expert approach?

[kingmagma111]

Originally posted by MOK:

Originally posted by kingmagma111:

Especially for solo your biggest concern should be breach prevention.

Based on what you plug down in the rest of this post, I'm getting the impression this game is all about seeing them first, getting the first shots, and backpedaling. Is that basically 80% of the combat? I certainly hope not...

When it comes to multiplayer, combat is quite a bit different. Breaches aren’t as bad in the sense that real players can respond more logically. Non-security can hold off while the fighters deal with the intruders, then mechanics rush in to seal the breaches. If you want more actual combat with handheld weapons and stuff, multiplayer is probably a better bet.

[DuckieMcduck]

Originally posted by MOK:

Originally posted by UnluckyDuckie:

Long story short combat is not good for your ship in most cases, if you're not in kill mission then killing things is largely a waste of resources.
(....)
Outside of that, you should employ the Sonar sparingly because >2 beeps will alert most kinds of swarms.

Very good to know, and good perspective shift.
Although with that second part, this highlights that there's two contradictory needs that can only be reconciled within a very tight 2-ping window. Whereas I keep active sonar on most of the time since I don't know the terrain and need to keep contacts at a particular facing, and then QUICK QUICK QUICK turn sonar off the moment a ping looks like a creature.
I guess that's fair, but I suppose this means the solo player is glued to the sonar unless they're zero m/s.

So this makes me figure my new plan is to try to slip past quietly as often as possible, avoid most combat, but position to be ready for it. And to tactically pray I don't collide into a new cliff as I blindly sneak past... But maybe positional will be fine for the task. If this bid fails, optimally I'm better off moving forward and shooting behind me, with a coil positioned and ready to go if they catch up or aggro me before I'm passing.

Would that be considered the standard-expert approach?

It would - as default. But it's also situation dependent; there are also creatures that are deaf or that swim around and will spot you regardless of sonar. You'd need to learn to spot them and learn what they are, in particular the Hammerhead (deaf and swims around). The sonar picks up their shape as a large cylinder blob. Going quiet against it would put you in a disadvantage, and there is also infighting: if you actually attract something to fight it it would be in your benefit. I've seen some wild infighting in endgame.

For the enemies that do hear the sonar, some are more prone than others. I've had situations where I would speed up the ship then turn off the reactor to not attract the attention of a particular type of creature that is keen to hearing: The Moloch, which is huge and makes a humming sound. He is perfectly visible in the Passive Sonar, which picks up things making noise outside. He's also blind, so even if you bump into it it won't care unless you disturb its beauty sleep.

Since you enjoy learning, there's this tip for better progress:

You may Host a Game, close the lobby so nobody joins, pick any ship, and fill it with bots. You can also add in cargo if you'd like. From there, you can choose any mission to try out (there are many variations within a mission type, but the core idea will be similar).

All the Campaign is, are strings of these missions together with persistent resource management. So by all means, it's the very hardcore mode.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by UnluckyDuckie:

Hammerhead (deaf and swims around).

Hammerheads have standard hearing. The golden variant has a hearing value of 2.

They do mostly rely on sight (2 for normal, 4 for golden), but if you're very loud they may still hear you before they see you.