Anyone else think the mechanic got f***'d?

[FatherSarge]

I haven't really looked at the new talent trees until today and I gotta say, the mechanic seems to have lost everything cool and gained next to nothing for it. Wooohoo he can make a heavy wrench and a giant exosuit that seems... not so great and has a lot of drawbacks. Even his other traits seem nerfed, no real boosts for repair, no skill speedup, etc, and the cherry on top being he can't even make the cool tools he used to, nor gets the +1 tier on O2 tanks.

I understand ditching the alien material crafting but the nerfs seem a bit heavy handed... why play mechanic now when every other class is so much more useful?

Just a shame to see the class go from Tier 1 must have to actually being bottom tier never have on the crew, maybe 1 if every other job (including Assistant btw) is taken...


EDIT: They did Mechanic so dirty, they even took his music perk away... I'm looking forward to the modders fixing all these errors

[Rhapsody]

I don't even remember these "cool" things mechanic used to have. The best thing of course was being able to replicate alien materials in a game-breaking manner. But that's not cool to me and I don't remember anything else. Maybe that's just me though.

What is cool, though, is the exosuit. Granted, a Frogman in exosuit is probably better than the MECHanic themselves, but that's what security does – equips armor and takes out baddies.

Mechanics still provide pretty valuable and very unique features and effects like portable pumps, defensive robots, and the ability to upgrade any sub as much as you'd like. It's not engaging, but the previous talents weren't engaging either... except the accordion perk of course.

[FatherSarge]

That’s a shame. Sounds like another example of devs that don’t sit down to play their own game from time to time. Most games (especially MP/co-op ones like baro) woukd really benefit from devs venturing out into the wider server browser to see how the player base actually plays the game.

[FatherSarge]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

I don't even remember these "cool" things mechanic used to have. The best thing of course was being able to replicate alien materials in a game-breaking manner. But that's not cool to me and I don't remember anything else. Maybe that's just me though.

What is cool, though, is the exosuit. Granted, a Frogman in exosuit is probably better than the MECHanic themselves, but that's what security does – equips armor and takes out baddies.

Mechanics still provide pretty valuable and very unique features and effects like portable pumps, defensive robots, and the ability to upgrade any sub as much as you'd like. It's not engaging, but the previous talents weren't engaging either... except the accordion perk of course.

Mechanic had the ability to make fulgurium tools for everyone, which were fantastic. If a set of advanced tools were to go I think it should have been the engineers personally… considering all the other stuff that class can create.

The idea of the exo is cool and all but for the cost of gutting mechanics I would have expected a much more powerful device. 50% husk infection for instance? If you have a useless class that just gets an exo suit for their trouble it should be much stronger.

The amount of perks that don’t stack is a bit silly as well. Why can’t a sub have multiples of the pump sets? 4? 6? Etc if there are more mechanics. Just seems silly and arbitrary, poorly designed perks.

[sokolov]

Originally posted by FatherSarge:

Mechanic had the ability to make fulgurium tools for everyone, which were fantastic.

It was Dementonite, which is completely useless now.
Fulgurium is for Fuel Rods and Battery Cells.

I sure do miss Tinkerer but I suppose having it's abilities passive (engine power based on your level, fabrication and deconstruction 50% faster) is probably better.

[Niradin]

Eh, not really. Most of what you had before is still there in one form or another, and what is missing weren't that important. Tinkering got replaced by many passive talents, stat boosts from mechanics/scrap with brawler tree. Bonuses to fixing stuff, mining stuff and crafting/deconstructing stuff is still there. Demtools are missing, but they were kinda a redundent anyway (same as hardened tools).
On top of that you got an abyss suit with extra pockets, your own version of axe and shotgun, and a drones for a little bit of fun.
Comparing to a medic losing ability to craft infinite alien materials, or clown losing an ability to be a one man crew, i would say Mech was nerfed least then the rest of the classes.

[Yumemirareru]

Mostly it just bugs me that they killed playstyle variety. Perks that would encourage you to venture outside even if you're not the combat class. Or if you wanted a captain that's more Kirk than Picard.

Overall the new system is definitely a loss in my books yeah. Bit like if they made pistols the only weapons because "You don't need rifles/shotguns/etc to win the game and they make it too easy." or similar.

[climbingeastofwinter]

I mean, the old mechanic tree let a couple of mechanics chain tinker engines or pumps to really silly effect. I loved it, but I understand the changes.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by climbingeastofwinter:

I mean, the old mechanic tree let a couple of mechanics chain tinker engines or pumps to really silly effect. I loved it, but I understand the changes.

If you can coordinate a chain of tinkering and spare the mechanics, I think you deserve whatever OP effects it may give. I don't like how the active abilities were swapped out for passives, I think it's just more fun to be doing stuff to improve the sub rather than simply existing in the world and having the machines magically run 12.7% faster.

[climbingeastofwinter]

It was fun being able to use the active abilities, yea, but making the bots use those abilities in singleplayer was just a nightmare of orders and crew swaps though and I understand trying to swap around the talents to something that the bots and pirate crews could actually reap benefit from.

I mean, ideally the bots would have been extended to not only do their normal tasks well but also be able to employ their active talents effectively, but that would have been more work than you're likely to get done in the span of time they had to get a patch out.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by Bookslayer10:

I think it's just more fun to be doing stuff to improve the sub rather than simply existing in the world and having the machines magically run 12.7% faster.

This. I forgot about Tinkering. It's basically a role we would in ages of past MMOs call something derogatory (which wasn't ever cool, but hopefully gets the point across). It's beneath even bots to stand still next to an installation and give it a numeric buff.

That doesn't mean that there couldn't be a way to achieve something similar. Portable pumps and defensive bots are interesting (if not always effective), but there could be more mechanical gadgets like those -> overhaul repair kit to "upgrade kit" which does something similar to tinkering but doesn't require camping the device like an NPC.

And speaking of portable pumps, they should be freed from the mechanic's clutches already. Give non-mechanics the ability to operate a single pump, and letting mechanic do it better. Same for defensive bots and upgrade kits, and the scrap cannon.

Having different bot roles unlock stuff for the whole (player) crew makes for bit less gimmicky and fun experience, but there should always be a way for a player in same role to use those unlocks more effectively.

[TreyUwU]

Originally posted by FatherSarge:

I haven't really looked at the new talent trees until today and I gotta say, the mechanic seems to have lost everything cool and gained next to nothing for it. Wooohoo he can make a heavy wrench and a giant exosuit that seems... not so great and has a lot of drawbacks. Even his other traits seem nerfed, no real boosts for repair, no skill speedup, etc, and the cherry on top being he can't even make the cool tools he used to, nor gets the +1 tier on O2 tanks.

I understand ditching the alien material crafting but the nerfs seem a bit heavy handed... why play mechanic now when every other class is so much more useful?

Just a shame to see the class go from Tier 1 must have to actually being bottom tier never have on the crew, maybe 1 if every other job (including Assistant btw) is taken...:captainclown:


EDIT: They did Mechanic so dirty, they even took his music perk away... I'm looking forward to the modders fixing all these errors

The engy got ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up too, like the "Unstoppable Curiosity" talent (+100% dmg with crowbars) that you're forced to take as a first perk in the physicist perk tree somehow doesn't stack with "PhD in Nuclear Physics" (PUCs + 200% dmg with crowbars).

I get it that they feared it could be too strong, but then don't force me into taking a talent that just adds +50% speed when you force doors as a first perk and +100%, non-stackable, crowbar dmg, ffs. This talent becomes useless as soon as you hit the last one in the tree.
Not a single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dev is playing this game, I swear.

The old tech trees were 10 times better in terms of choices and playstyles.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by Treyu:

The engy got ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up too, like the "Unstoppable Curiosity" talent (+100% dmg with crowbars) that you're forced to take as a first perk in the physicist perk tree somehow doesn't stack with "PhD in Nuclear Physics" (PUCs + 200% dmg with crowbars).

Sorry but this is BS lmao. The original PUCS talent provided +140% increase to crowbar damage, not +200%. It doesn't need to stack because it's already better than the original.

The first talent which makes doors open faster and provide little-needed damage increase in melee is of course not very good. But that has nothing to do with the old features, stacking or the Ph.D in Nuclear Physics.

If you need a refresher on how the old talents looked like, you can check them on the wiki's revision history of the article[barotraumagame.com]. You'll need to back in time to summer 2022 or something to see the full texts since the structure was changed at some point after that and before the update.

[lolic_lol]

I'm not an expert, but seriously, with all the arsenal of the game - are there those who fight with crowbars?
Why do this at all in a game where there are no headcrabs?

[Yumemirareru]

Originally posted by lolic_lol:

I'm not an expert, but seriously, with all the arsenal of the game - are there those who fight with crowbars?
Why do this at all in a game where there are no headcrabs?

I mean you can but it's a meme yeah. So for me personally, it's not really the number tweaks that bother me, nor the loss of stuff like "gain X materials at end of mission", nor even the fulgurium tools things that was complained about earlier. Honestly, I'd even venture to say that mechanic probably got the kinder end of the rework and came out better than most...

It's just the death of variety in playstyles/specs that gets me. Everyone's much more locked into a (narrower) vision of what their role is supposed to be. Before it definitely felt to me like there was a wider choice in what kind of (insert class here) you could be. The captain that leads from the front, or from the back. The engineer that could be an engine room jockey, or more of an adventurer. etc etc.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Originally posted by Bookslayer10:

I think it's just more fun to be doing stuff to improve the sub rather than simply existing in the world and having the machines magically run 12.7% faster.

This. I forgot about Tinkering. It's basically a role we would in ages of past MMOs call something derogatory (which wasn't ever cool, but hopefully gets the point across). It's beneath even bots to stand still next to an installation and give it a numeric buff.

That doesn't mean that there couldn't be a way to achieve something similar. Portable pumps and defensive bots are interesting (if not always effective), but there could be more mechanical gadgets like those -> overhaul repair kit to "upgrade kit" which does something similar to tinkering but doesn't require camping the device like an NPC.

And speaking of portable pumps, they should be freed from the mechanic's clutches already. Give non-mechanics the ability to operate a single pump, and letting mechanic do it better. Same for defensive bots and upgrade kits, and the scrap cannon.

Having different bot roles unlock stuff for the whole (player) crew makes for bit less gimmicky and fun experience, but there should always be a way for a player in same role to use those unlocks more effectively.

I agree that portable pumps and drones are cool, but I still think it's a step backwards to turn an active ability into a passive one. Would you rather need to actively do something to help out, or just serve as a totem pole projecting buffs?

It wasn't like you wanted to constantly tinker in the same spot. During attacks you could be doing many things, like fixing the hull, overclocking pumps to drain water, or overclocking turrets to help out the gunnery crew. You need to think and coordinate with the captain and crew to effectively use the ability.

I think that taking that away for separate, always active buffs that you don't have nearly as much control over is a bad idea. There are lots of other tasks that were more menial and boring than tinkerer.