Barotrauma long downfall

[mm79]

In my opinion - since Barotrauma realised on Steam it's got worse with every update.
There was some nice QoL features there, but content updates can be described as:"If you saw it once, you know it all".
New, giant living underwater cities. Like ok? You dock, enter, yea, cool, all looks great. And that's all.
Then it's just became an annoyance. There is nothing to do, it's boring, travelling from merchant to another merchant takes way longer, sometimes you don't understand which layer of city the merchant are. "Population - 10##something". And there is like 25 NPCs just walking from one place to another, doing nothing. Even at mining points miners having a break all the time new ship is docked, i guess? This cities is just copy-place, they all looked exactly the same, just some expirience for the new player and then just turning into a chore.
Docked, sell, buy, upgrade, repair, moving.
New alien ruins? Nice! I got exited about this one!
Same thing. Cool looking, fun to explore ancient glowing ruins with defence bots and blood sucking jellyfish!
Well, for the first time.
Then it also becaming a chore. You swimming in a giant maze, looting a chest from time to time. It's not fun, because there is nothing in it!
There is 2,5 enemies and 2 traps laying inside a alien maze. That same every time!
There like 4 piece of that ruins, and they get swapped places between each other from one another ruins. That called "random generation" by the way.
New talents.
Okay, something nice. Really nice. Barotrauma don't have a end game content AT ALL.
You just swimming, got attacked, kill, repair, swim, you get the point.
And something new in it, talents!
There was a few brocken ones, like medic going 200 miles/hour, or clown that cannot die. They just need a good polishing, and, they was really nice addi...
Yea, they got completely reworked...
I like previos talent sistem better, that just my opinios.
But not a my opinion - is how painfully slow expirience is growing now!
In previos build there was a talent tree with 3 offsprings, 4 talent in each. You need more and more expiriense with every level, so you can upgrade first root in 2-3 map locations. And there was a really interesting relife from chore gameplay.
But now you have to upgrade 2 "filler" talent(something like "you get 7,5% more exp if every crew member survived in mission"(not even jocking, that the talent in game)).
Then another 2, but slightly better(still changes nothing in gameplay, underlining how chore it is).
And only then you can start upgrading one of 3 roots.
So now you can fully upgrade just one skill root somewere in half/end of 4 location.
This game has 5 by the way...
And you know why capitan has the 2 roots, when all other have 3? Because devs decided to remove ALL talents, where you can give exp to other players. And capitan has one root that all about it. "lol, just cut it out of the game, capitan gets nothing".
1. This makes levelling even more pain.
2. Now if i join a server, that already in second/5 game location or higher - i just leave.
Because when i will join i will be lever 1, and some of exp already left behind, so probably you even can't make it with 1 single talent root because you can not ask mechanic or capitan to boost your exp a little, so you can be on one level with eachother. And talents is a most interesting thing in entire game.
Im not sure, maybe devs thought that this feature makes players stay in game by finishing 3 campain to see all 3 skill roots?
You don't make game 3 times more interesting by slowing down player progress 3 times more! There is NO mid/end game content, and you decide to scrap talents, that was mid/end game content??
Bugs
This game has A LOT. From enemies don't take damage to server crashing after 2 hour mission(can't save in missions, only when docked, sorry, L) kind of bugs. Yea, some bugs gets fixed, but some are in game for 5-6 years straight. Like sometimes you can be teleported outside of your ship(Not that often to be hones), lag here and there with perfect 40-50 ping, monsters that heal all health after you shot them, or even revive after you killed them.
Oh, i'm not joking, one of my last Barotrauma expirience - is i swimmed 3 missions(about 2 hours), and i saw like 15 different bugs, 2 of wich killed me. And that just state of the game. Some bugs didn't fixing since 2015.
Medicine. You just need rags, blood bag and morphine. Antibiotics and anti-paralise from time to time. Poisons are useless, only need for the traitor. Oh, yea.
Traitors. There is like 2% of people playing this gamemode, because it's broken too. Don't even thing devs remember that they got one.
And Barotrauma somewhy have items that are only good for traitoring, like poisons, stun batoons, handcuffs, tasers, rubber bullets. This items in game only to be selled or dessasembeld.
And there is more and more and more. But biggest Barotrauma problem is lack of content, in my opinion.
Game has 5 locations, that got progressevly harder. Not a locations, navigations, or something that require wise choose making. Just enemies in it. All the locations is just copy-paste coridor with different colors. I even can describe it all!
All the location coridors has the form of "U", where you start from the left, and need to move to the right, making missions along the way. Thanks for the listening, that's basicly all.
Playing in first map "biom" is fun. You have no resources, has a poor ship, no guns to defend yourself. That the most fun part.
Second biom is okay. You already bought a new ship, have some resources from time to time, crew can fight off a 2 crawlers.
3-5 biom - you set on resources, your ship is almost fully upgraded, all the crew members have a shotgun in there pants and ammo enough to slay a demon or something. If that demon don't decide to not take damage, or not gain randomy x10 attack speed multiplier(Not a joke intended, that bug is in the game. Remember bugs? Cool. Don't forget)
And 3-5 locations not even have that many outposts(that is boring too, but still), so you just swim, got attacked and pinned down to the floor. Kill all enemies and repair, and then just swim agian. Did i mention that distance, that you need to swim is longer every time? No? lol.
In first location you need to swim like 800 meters from point to point, having a 1-2 encounters along the way.
In fourts location you need to swim like 3500 meters from point to point, having 6-8 encounters along the way.
And every encounter is the same. You got flooded, pinned to the ocean floor. Kill all, repair, move along.
In second location you can clear a cave, stole a sinked ship and complete the mission in 1-1.5 hour.
In fourth location you need to just move from point A to point B, and this can took you 3-3.5 hours.
In my opinion devs just decide to turn Barotrauma from underwater crew multiplayer rogue-like to just "That goofy game underwater with clowns".
Development vector moving strongly to make this game one of a thousands game that you can play with friends for 4-5 days, and just forget about it. Saw new update, come back, played another 3-4 days, and forget about it untill next update.
And somehow 8 years back in time this game was much more fun to play.
Thanks for hearing me out. That's not all, but i can rumble about this game for 5 hours straight, so i need to stop myself now, after i got out all the most valueble points.

[Саныч]

I think the developer just doesn't know what he should really do. The development of any solution is huge labor costs, so it is difficult for them to take risks. This is probably why they add what seems not too laborious and what the players supposedly demanded.
I think they understand that more global things are needed, but resources do not allow them to be done, so only simple things have to be introduced.
The problem with the game is that it still requires global changes or additions. Some of them are gameplay reworking, which is difficult even in the head, not to mention in the implementation in the code. The other part is simply too much work, such as the content of sunken cities with ancient gods, physical and mental mutations of those who visited them. Sounds cool, but it's too costly to do that right now.
Therefore, it seems to me that the developer is at an impasse. Some parts of the game are not interesting enough or do not work to their full potential, which causes boredom. To dilute it, they introduce "at least something", at the request of the players, but this does not improve the general condition.
I think they deserve:
1) Publicly express your thoughts about the project and where they want to go in order to find a common language with the players and understand whether it is worth developing and taking risks at all.
2) Focus on the gameplay and rework it, perhaps abandon past ideas or even put something under the knife, expecting that the players will be unhappy (for example, make the game more hardcore, which will scare away some. Or vice versa, make it more fun)
3) If the developer’s situation is difficult and options 1 and 2 cannot be done, and there are few resources, focus on adding simple entertainment content and help the game develop through the efforts of the players and expand it in a non-independent way

[zircon]

Not to mention the multithreading, which cannot be implemented for the same number of years. But I love this. Sums up why tons of veterans quit the game. Sad to see but it is what it is.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by zircon:

Sums up why tons of veterans quit the game.

Doesn't seem like that matters.

https://steamcharts.com/app/602960

So much for the "downfall".

[sokolov]

You're just bored of the game, go play something else if you dont see anything else but the "swim, kill, repair" loop.
(also if at every encounter you get pinned down to the ocean floor / abyss and it takes you +4 hours to advance missions in biome 4 then all i can say is skill issue, sorry)

The Captain's 3rd skilltree also wasn't removed on purpose but is on hold until the ending and faction overhaul are released this year. Unless anything changes regarding the 3rd tree during development the Captain should still be able to give out medals I think.

[CannonFodder]

If you are too familiar with vanilla game, try some mods

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2532991202

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by Sokolov:

The Captain's 3rd skilltree also wasn't removed on purpose but is on hold until the ending and faction overhaul are released this year. Unless anything changes regarding the 3rd tree during development the Captain should still be able to give out medals I think.

Correct. It's also a great exaggeration to say anything other than medals and the extra mission availability were removed, since pretty much all the other features are still available, and they've even been improved. Both of the missing features will be reintroduced in the Politician spec when it's available, you can already take a sneak peek at what it holds in the game files.

In fact, I'd say that making even more bonuses available to the captain would make the role more interesting while also making it overpowered. They can already buff skill gain and repair capability of the crew by crazy amounts. It's quite clear to see that each spec was originally intended to be mutually exclusive with the others, so I wouldn't expect more buffs to talents at this point other than implementing the missing Politician spec.

[kingmagma111]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Originally posted by zircon:

Sums up why tons of veterans quit the game.

Doesn't seem like that matters.

https://steamcharts.com/app/602960

So much for the "downfall".

100% agree. There are a lot of people complaining about the game and it’s just getting annoying. Change in and of itself is not always good, this is true. But I believe the game’s change is making it better. I’ve only been playing for about a year now, but I greatly enjoy it and none of the updates have made me reconsider it as my favorite game. Do I have slight problems with certain aspects? Yeah, but that doesn’t mean the game has entered a ‘downfall’. Keep in mind the veterans leaving may just be moving on. That happens. The thing is, they’re being replaced by new players at a decent rate and as long as the dev team keeps seeking to improve and adds unique content while tweaking what exists as necessary, I’m sure it will do fine.
Plus, some of the stuff on the horizon is looking good. Politician branch? I’m a captain main, sounds awesome. I can put up with 2 branches until then. Finishing the endgame? Cool, can’t wait. Medical item cooldown? Makes sense, might make it harder, but strength rejoices in the challenge. All these things are gonna be great, if you’re not a fan of where the games going, that’s fine. Just don’t try and claim the people who do enjoy it should stop.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by kingmagma111:

There are a lot of people complaining about the game and it’s just getting annoying. Change in and of itself is not always good, this is true. But I believe the game’s change is making it better.

True dat. It's completely fine to express one's concerns over game features of course, but masking it or drumming it up with BS like "veterans quit", talking about devs doing something wrong when you're not actually affiliated with them, or other things you're not actually aware of but pretend to be, is not useful.

[Bookslayer10]

This just seemed like a lot of whining with no real logic behind it, just calling features bad or boring. The are also just asking for more new features instead of giving any actual ideas for what they want.

[Simon of Cyrene]

A lot of the complaints here I feel are illegitimate tbh.... a lot of things feel like a chore because... well did you expect operating a nuclear submarine to be 100% fun with no maintenance and cleaning work? Its a crafting game that involves a lot of tedious planning for success to be possible. Having a poorly organized sub launch unprepared is a bigger death sentence than falling to the abyss.

I overall strongly disagree with your criticisms but there's two concessions i must give:

1) I agree that the skill rework results in my character having mediocre talents for 50% of the game... I imagine I MIGHT have one tree maxed out by the end of the game. I like the skills themselves but I agree that some skills are mind bogglingly useless, real head scratchers that make you ask "Why is this even an option?" I guess the devs don't want skills to be OP anymore?

2) I agree with your criticism of captain skills and the removal of bonus XP from captains. The captain tree is lack-luckster and the inability to give out XP medals sucks. I never thought this was too broken? Overall I think the skill rework was alright, removed a lot of downright broken talents but replaced them with mediocre useless talents. Im a little salty that security no longer gets paid 200mk per kill, but I can understand how this is overpowered as id often make an extra 2,000+mk after a good run.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by Simon of Cyrene:

I agree with your criticism of captain skills and the removal of bonus XP from captains. The captain tree is lack-luckster and the inability to give out XP medals sucks. I never thought this was too broken?

If you read some of our comments above, you can see that they have only been removed temporarily until the faction overhaul is in place so the Politician spec will actually work.

I also can't relate to feeling of not being able to max even a single branch/spec of talent tree during the campaign. We just went through one with Jovian radiation on and 6 out of 9 crew members had fully unlocked two specs in addition to some extras from the first two rows of talents.

[zircon]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Originally posted by kingmagma111:

There are a lot of people complaining about the game and it’s just getting annoying. Change in and of itself is not always good, this is true. But I believe the game’s change is making it better.

True dat. It's completely fine to express one's concerns over game features of course, but masking it or drumming it up with BS like "veterans quit", talking about devs doing something wrong when you're not actually affiliated with them, or other things you're not actually aware of but pretend to be, is not useful.

Funnily enough you did not pick on my multithreading point.

On the topic of "veterans quit", I can literally see 55 of my friends owning the game, only 20 of whom have played recently. A large portion of the remaining 35 are with 1000+ hours and years of playing, what else can I say? If veterans in your opinion are the one's chatting in discord today, well suit yourself, but I mean people who have played and engaged with the community for a very long time (a bunch of whom are even mentioned in the game credits), and its sad to see them quitting.

Sure the game is developing. It's great to see more people joining in either case. I personally play it. Simply put, the fact that there is an element of repetitiveness is undeniable, and stating that it does get boring, is normal. Nothing more nothing less on my end.

[Саныч]

Personally, I have no complaints about specific aspects of the game, such as changing talents, or some kind of role, or balance, I'm not bored on the sub. I probably disagree with most claims of this kind. But as an old experienced gamer, I see that there are many "holes" in the game that are not immediately visible, but which affect the fact that players lose interest. And those holes can't be patched up just by adding content like weapons. A little more intellectual work is needed here.
But I am sure that the game can be improved and made a bomb if the developer thinks hard. Of course, I could give a detailed commentary on where exactly I see holes and how they could be repaired. But I'm not a developer and don't know the resources they own. And it seems to me that the developer should understand these things better than us.
I love this game and wish it could get better, but right now it's not the kind of game you want to go back to and repeat the same experience (for me it's endless random server adventures in every aspect of the game, but there's a limit to that as well repetitions).
In summary, I think the game is just going through a slump that can be straightened out. Many games cannot be corrected, because of their original idea and mechanics, and they remain boring forever. But not barotrauma.

[simsyu]

All in all, uninformative waste of time potentially leading away new players for the sake of one's feelings. I have to say that I personally don't blame you for thinking that way but to publicly provide concentrated negative criticism on general discussion is crossing the line.
The best thing you could do is to remove this post.

Just read what you wrote, if devs actually tried to comply and keep up with your demands they'd work day and night without rest until you're satisfied by a service they've provided you themselves. Just imagine how much of their life would they need to give out if you weren't the only greedy/impatient one?
Such irony...

You've splendidly stated the state of a game in development, that I can approve.

[Саныч]

I think the topic has exhausted itself)