So many griefers

[Footen]

Don't they want people playing this game?

[the.lovewyrm]

Originally posted by Cameron Hall:

Originally posted by the.lovewyrm:

Studying a game and diving into the sourcecode are two different pair of shoes.
You can study the game all you want. That's why I specifically called your analogy false.

But if you are part of the group I pointed out, who only lives for raising numbers (that's partly a figure of speech, by the way, since in computing, numbers are always involved, basically ,grindlovers if you prefer that term) and find doing anything else that gets in the way of that abhorrent, then that's pretty blightful, yes.
Especially if it is aided by metagaming/code diving and other such things.

Playing with wires is not some secret thing, anyone can do it. If you don't bother with it, that's on you and anyone else who doesn't bother with it.
It's part of standard gameplay. It's not some out of game experience like code analysis and statistical calculations and spread sheets and the like.

You are clearly sore about wire sabotage, but by stifling it you stifle the positives more than anything else.
The game is designed to be mean. If it's not wires, then its something else, but wires need to be protected because it allows a whole venue of gameplay options that should not be destroyed just because 'you can't deal with it'.

My ship book thing keeps this in mind 100% and infringes not a single bit on the negatives, it just makes it easier to fix.

Play with private people and turn wiring off, but don't suggest stuff that chunks out the game, it needs more things to do in general, not less.
It's a Space Station 13 homage, but only has a fraction of complexity and activities.

Have you ever played SS13? If this wiring thing gets your goat that hard, man then SS13 probably has the potential to flat out kill you IRL.

I never said I have a problem with your book solution, I'm saying it doesn't exist. In the game's current state, the only people who will be solving this issue are the same people with the same mindset you dislike. How many people have you come across that know how to fix the nav terminal if all the wires got disconnected? How many people know where the "and" components on it are connected to? How many people even know what the 1s and 0s mean? Do you know literally every single component on the default ships and how to fix them? Because all it takes is one person with a screwdriver to make those not option things to learn, but absolute requirements to succeed. Yet none of them are taught by the game itself.

Your book solution would theoretically let people reset the ship to the default state, yes, but as if it's the main solution, then there is no solution currently. Fact is that, yes, anyone can learn how wiring works if they want to. But the fact is most don't, and you don't need to invest even the slightest iota of it to know how to unwire everything on the ship.

The game is designed to be mean, yes. For 99% of players, "mean" is simply getting attacked by mudraptors and watching half their crew die. It being a ruthless game doesn't mean it's meant to be one where anyone bored one day should be allowed to immediately end the round for 8 other people. Especially when there's no actual countermeasures except meta-level ones like banning the person, and even that doesn't solve what they did.

I find it hilarious that all it took was me pointing out the slightest bit of irony for you to decide you'll dedicate half your post to getting personal and making assumptions. Between assuming I have an issue with your book solution, have an issue with rewiring in general, and even talking about how I'd clearly die if I played BYOND (I can promise you, given how long I spent on BYOND in my youth, I've probably played it - and all its clones from then - more than you).

There's an enormous difference between an unfair game and basically giving every single person in the game an unpreventable kill switch. When there's counterplay, do whatever you want. But the fact is half your argument is based on this potential future headcanoned counter. The only real counter we have right now, truly learning wiring, requires people that have the "above and beyond" min-maxing mentality to have the slightest chance to keep a ship running. Yet you condemn those same people.

No amount of saying 'wiring is something anyone can do' changes that wiring is inherently a logic puzzle. It is the closest possible thing this game has to min-maxing code and numbers.

You know what would increase the number of people who know wiring?
Unlocking wiring and dealing with trouble.

And once again, you are wrong. The people I abhor are not the people who would fix wire problems.
The people I abhor would keep wiring locked during play and only make changes to the sub with the editor because leaving wiring enabled during play invites sabotage and that ruins the profit margin on the productive campaign.

Furthermore, I do not believe for a second that you found anything about this hilarious.
The notion that you find your alleged irony and the fallout around it hilarious is just another invention from your mind.
Just like your claim that I think that you have a problem with my solution.
Where is that in my post you quoted? Nowhere.
You pulled that out of your ass.

Getting personal? Making assumptions on my part?
Well, you clearly are sore about wire sabotage and griefing, and this game, compared to SS13 has so few ways to be a nuisance.
So, yeah, I think it's pretty reasonable to extrapolate that to the games 'spiritual big brother'.

As for "wiring is not taught by the game" yes it is. There's an entire sub editor that provides a safe environment to get to grips with the components, and it even has a quick test mode.

Anyway, I think it's best for you to take a small break from this discussion, not a permanent one, but the past two replies to me you did a lot of projection and invention of problems where there are none.

Like the notion, again, of me thinking you have a problem with my book suggestion.
Perhaps you mixed it up with me wishing for you (or anyone) to make suggestions that remove gameplay like that, or put it behind silly prerequirements.

The game already has a lock on wiring you can use if you're that hung up on the thing.
Also, perhaps I did strike a nerve with my claim about the worst gamer groups, and if that is the case then maybe let that pass through, too.

It's true, it's the worst two demographics, but an easy fix to that is simply to reject their suggestions to save the games that they want to affect.

Cause, leaving them bored (if they're so good at the game due to metagaming that nothing is left, and they want more grind, not gameplay, just more grind, then you can just ignore them) or frustrated is perfectly fine and will not harm the game.

No game.

So, there's that. If you are part of that problem group, it's fine. As long as the developers ignore you, it's all good.
There won't be pointless grind to slow down the consumption of numbers, there will be no pointless prerequisites, etc.
Just a good game, that simply doesn't sit well with people who, if they had their druthers, would sap it all away.

[Buggy Boy]

Originally posted by the.lovewyrm:

Those who cannot see a game as anything but work with the reward that some number goes up and nothing else matters. Nothing.
"A productive campaign"
What's your product? Certainly not good ideas about game design, especially regarding this game and it's mechanics.
>but if some random ahole swaps some numbers in my relay then I'm doomed so wiring should be a talent (context: a thread in the suggestions subforum)
>so what if that locks out sandbox and mission mode which doesn't have talents
>devs can just split their game logic up and enable wiring there instead of keeping things generic with wiring
>otherwise my productivity in the campaign drops and I can't have that plz devs do it
>the antisocial children are too much to handle, rewrite the entire system for meeeee

I don't see games as work at all - I've seen it many times in multiplayer games, players who might as well have been the computer playing to maximise efficiency to win and thus end the round as quickly as possible. Whatever you may imagine is going on when I play this or other games, that's all it is - your perception and imagination - as I don't play that way at all. I enjoy taking my time, exploring, trying things out, playing in a relaxed way; what I do not do is purposefully attempt to sabotage as that's counter-productive to the mission, campaign, and other people's fun when it's explicitly discouraged by the host in the server rules, with bans or other harsh punishments for anyone disobeying their rules.

The problem here is that you're chopping and changing what other people are saying, or you're misinterpreting the words and trying to put your own in other's mouths. I didn't say any of those lines you appear to be quoting with >, those are things you've written yourself and making entire arguments based on those, so in effect you're arguing with yourself over things that nobody said.

As for sandbox and other non-campaign modes, that's a fair point but easily solved with a server setting - just turn off the talent requirement so that anyone can do wiring, in fact nobody is going to be using talents in sandbox or non-campaign modes anyway (unless they cheat them with the console) so the entire talent system can be disabled, or let the host or clients choose which talents to have (maybe following the existing talent trees per class and exclusive talent choices, i.e. cannot just choose any or every talent in the game nor either/or ones), before the round begins, I think that would add a lot to those modes.

P.S.:
Pomegrenades have a small chance to drop a volatile fruit that, if not caught carefully with a water bath in the planting room, will explode and set the room on fire.

That's what the devs think about your productive campaign and safety regulations.
BOOM.
Pomegrenade in your hold!

This has nothing to do with griefing, it's just misdirection from the topic. FWIW I've farmed pomegrenades in solo quite a lot, it's a bit of a non-event when one does explode as my bots quickly put out the flames and repair any damage. Also, I don't grow plants in my hold or ballast tanks, I grow them in the medbay (vanilla Humpback). Never lost a crewman to it.

[Cameron Hall]

Originally posted by the.lovewyrm:

[all that]

Pedantry and silent allusions to Criken and other youtubers that've given this game exposure does not an argument make.

We have no real counterplay. Your argument is circular as ♥♥♥♥. You're claiming it's acceptable that there's no counterplay because people getting trolled will teach them to learn to rewire things. But that's just self-justification. I've met far more people that got tired of the game because all it takes is one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with an entitled attitude and a screwdriver to screw over basically every campaign they come across than I have any evil min-maxers.

Also, hilariously enough, default subs can't even do the wiring lock. That requires taking it into the editor. The vast majority of people don't do that. And even if they did, that just means you've completely removed all forms of wiring to prevent the one potential bad apple.

Either way, you're pretty good at concern-trolling. Though you might want to take a break because you're clearly getting even more heated my guy. I'm worried for your health. I know you're super duper amicable despite literally everything you're saying being thinly-veiled personal attacks, but it's not good for your health to assume everyone has an issue with you personally. Sorry man, I think you need to chill out. Calm down a bit bro, it's just a game. A forum about a game, even. A bit of harmless discussion about how some people feel entitled to remove all the wires on the ship and act like everyone else isn't the bad guy for spending 20 hours learning wiring.

[weiss]

Originally posted by Cameron Hall:

Originally posted by Chiro:

give it up, you lost already from the moment on where you insulted, you lost twice after you played the strawman card and you lost the argument triple after you played the grammartroll card but cant even write english to 100% perfect on your own.
in short, ♥♥♥♥ off.

If we're gonna start playing "I accept your concession" like a thread straight out of 4chan, I'll just return fire by saying you lost when you refused to write something coherent and then looked for any opportunity to play the victim. You're a child.

am probably older then you because i am able to have a conversation without insulting other peoples. + its a fact that peoples like you love to reflect themselfs onto others.
aka you saying i sabotage ships, and yet am i right now playing the game like any other normal person which does not grief the crew.
again, you lost after you insulted, came with the dumb strawman argument and then attacked my english grammar even tho you cant write english on your own correct and having tons of punctuations and capital letter mistakes in your posts.

wiring is part of the game, period. the dev putted it in, so its part of the game. just because you and others dont like how peoples grief and/or sabotage submarines with it means not that you can say "its not part of the game" the only thing you can say is "its not the goal of the game" but thats as far as you can fight this.

and i say again, if peoples dont want to have those griefers on their submarine, play with trusted peoples/friends just like i do. if peoples start to play with randoms is it their own fault that they take the risk that one idiot joined the group which wants to ruin everyones fun.

[Cameron Hall]

Originally posted by Chiro:

Originally posted by Cameron Hall:

If we're gonna start playing "I accept your concession" like a thread straight out of 4chan, I'll just return fire by saying you lost when you refused to write something coherent and then looked for any opportunity to play the victim. You're a child.

am probably older then you because i am able to have a conversation without insulting other peoples. + its a fact that peoples like you love to reflect themselfs onto others.
aka you saying i sabotage ships, and yet am i right now playing the game like any other normal person which does not grief the crew.
again, you lost after you insulted, came with the dumb strawman argument and then attacked my english grammar even tho you cant write english on your own correct and having tons of punctuations and capital letter mistakes in your posts.

wiring is part of the game, period. the dev putted it in, so its part of the game. just because you and others dont like how peoples grief and/or sabotage submarines with it means not that you can say "its not part of the game" the only thing you can say is "its not the goal of the game" but thats as far as you can fight this.

and i say again, if peoples dont want to have those griefers on their submarine, play with trusted peoples/friends just like i do. if peoples start to play with randoms is it their own fault that they take the risk that one idiot joined the group which wants to ruin everyones fun.

Insulting people is part of language. Etymologists and those who invented linguistics put it in, so that makes it okay. So I'm just going to do that from now on. Because hamfisting the same moronic argument automatically makes it acceptable by your logic. Your pathetic attitude doesn't mean that everyone else should be forced to suffer. When the game has counterplay or you're required to get your hand off your ♥♥♥♥ for a single moment and need to put in even a tenth of the effort those you're harassing do, then I'll be all for your incoherent blithering and victim complex. Until then, you'll keep arguing semantics and fallacies like a rat.

And because I almost forgot to argue at your level, I accept your concession. Thanks for losing. You can stop (barely) talking now.

[the.lovewyrm]

Originally posted by Buggy Boy:

Originally posted by the.lovewyrm:

Those who cannot see a game as anything but work with the reward that some number goes up and nothing else matters. Nothing.
"A productive campaign"
What's your product? Certainly not good ideas about game design, especially regarding this game and it's mechanics.
>but if some random ahole swaps some numbers in my relay then I'm doomed so wiring should be a talent (context: a thread in the suggestions subforum)
>so what if that locks out sandbox and mission mode which doesn't have talents
>devs can just split their game logic up and enable wiring there instead of keeping things generic with wiring
>otherwise my productivity in the campaign drops and I can't have that plz devs do it
>the antisocial children are too much to handle, rewrite the entire system for meeeee

I don't see games as work at all - I've seen it many times in multiplayer games, players who might as well have been the computer playing to maximise efficiency to win and thus end the round as quickly as possible. Whatever you may imagine is going on when I play this or other games, that's all it is - your perception and imagination - as I don't play that way at all. I enjoy taking my time, exploring, trying things out, playing in a relaxed way; what I do not do is purposefully attempt to sabotage as that's counter-productive to the mission, campaign, and other people's fun when it's explicitly discouraged by the host in the server rules, with bans or other harsh punishments for anyone disobeying their rules.

The problem here is that you're chopping and changing what other people are saying, or you're misinterpreting the words and trying to put your own in other's mouths. I didn't say any of those lines you appear to be quoting with >, those are things you've written yourself and making entire arguments based on those, so in effect you're arguing with yourself over things that nobody said.

As for sandbox and other non-campaign modes, that's a fair point but easily solved with a server setting - just turn off the talent requirement so that anyone can do wiring, in fact nobody is going to be using talents in sandbox or non-campaign modes anyway (unless they cheat them with the console) so the entire talent system can be disabled, or let the host or clients choose which talents to have (maybe following the existing talent trees per class and exclusive talent choices, i.e. cannot just choose any or every talent in the game nor either/or ones), before the round begins, I think that would add a lot to those modes.

P.S.:
Pomegrenades have a small chance to drop a volatile fruit that, if not caught carefully with a water bath in the planting room, will explode and set the room on fire.

That's what the devs think about your productive campaign and safety regulations.
BOOM.
Pomegrenade in your hold!

This has nothing to do with griefing, it's just misdirection from the topic. FWIW I've farmed pomegrenades in solo quite a lot, it's a bit of a non-event when one does explode as my bots quickly put out the flames and repair any damage.

>I don't see the game as work
You hate so called griefers because they get in the way of your productive campaign.
>I don't say what you quote with > marks that makes you argue with yourself
Wrong. If I > your words directly, then it's a direct quote and I argue based on that.
If I > some thing that you did not say, but is related to the topic then that's that, it's a relation, an angle of the topic
Like a Q&A, but I admit that I could do that more elegantly, perhaps. I won't though.
>Exploding pomegrenades have nothing to do with griefing
Yeah, that was a statement about safety regulations from the sides of the developers.
Drop a casual little bomb from your plant that can totally surprise a newcomer.

Which, *could* be construed as a grief, but...I didn't, but if this discussion was not charged with us butting heads, then...well, someone could interpret that as the devs being dickish...

And the little bit about griefing, when I did not refer to it...
Brings me to the next point
>you misconstrue words
Again, not really. I attack the core of an issue and that usually ends up extremely accurate.
You on the other hand, have done several grievous bending of definitions and scopes of the matter to suit your argument.

LIke the virus thing, or the 'do you sabotage your bot' thing, etc.

While I stay on the ball with my >'s
As for your suggestion, I consider it bad and still do so.
No need for all the contrivances just to please you. If you want a relaxed productive campaign? Play it with vetted people and enable all the safety precautions.

[Kommandant Krabby Patty]

Originally posted by Buggy Boy:

I think friendly fire is the least of people's worries when it comes to team kills, as far more common methods do not involve firearms at all (drug overdoses and wrong tanks in items would not be prevented).

That's objectively wrong. I just tested this, disabling friendly fire prevents other players from being overdosed, and players are smart enough to not fall for the welding fuel in diver suit.

Originally posted by Buggy Boy:

Newbies to the game don't usually have the luxury of a group of trusted Barotrauma playing friends they can instantly join a private server with, they'll experiment with public servers in order to try out the multiplayer experience, and if someone just comes along and wrecks the campaign it might leave a bitter taste in their mouth, their initial experience of what should be a co-op game (described as such, I believe) is instead one of team-kills, banned individuals, and having to restart the rounds multiple times or even the entire campaign. If nobody hosted public servers then newbies would have little choice but to effectively ask to be let in to a private server, then we're back to playing with randoms as by that logic nobody who didn't want traitors would ever let them in.

Most newbies come into this game knowing how goofy and chaotic this game is, in fact this reason is why most want to play the game.

Originally posted by Buggy Boy:

I never enjoy playing with wiring locked, and even friendly fire disabled, because under normal conditions they add a lot to the game (one without traitors / griefers being present)

Then why get mad about players killing others or rewiring if it adds more to your game?

Originally posted by Buggy Boy:

Why is it that these game rounds tend to often result in utter chaos, instead of the calm and mostly productive atmosphere encountered in a normal campaign game? Is it because some people join traitor mode servers and just cause chaos right away, regardless of whether they are actually the traitor (even in a Traitor game, if you are not the traitor then sabotage is unacceptable, you're supposed to complete the mission and/or stop the traitor). At the end of the day I have to put this whole sabotage thing down to some people being unwilling to play to the rules as set before them whether it's in a campaign (which usually state 'no griefers' in the server rules) or in actual Traitor mode servers, there is no grey area here as far as I can see, there is no lore excuse for going against server rules as laid out by the host, that's just flimsy hogwash.

1. Many new players start this game after watching videos made by YouTubers (Criken, Bucklington, Charborg, etc.) where funny adventures take place. They want to reenact these videos because they're fun and exciting.

2. Playing the game in a calm and productive manner gets boring and stale to newcomers. You can only replay the campaign so many times before it gets monotonous. Doesn't help when serious players aren't willing to socialize with these type of players and rather look down on them for not taking the game seriously.

3. Some servers straight up deserve the griefing. I hate saying this but it's true. I've seen so many new and normal players have their games ruined by abusive admins, that they decide to become griefers out of retaliation. Wanna fix the griefer issue? Might help to hold these servers accountable.



But at the end of all of this. It's just a 2D submarine game. It's not that hard to play and shouldn't be taken seriously.

[Cameron Hall]

The most hilarious ♥♥♥♥ is when people start saying personality streamers who get paid for playing games in the least-constructive, zany ways should be what determine whether it's acceptable to have fun at the expensive of everyone else in your game.

Most people don't have an ADHD-riddled need to be as outright malicious as they can be at all times. Those streamers do that for fun because everyone's in on it; people who pull out every wire in public lobbies where traitors aren't even enabled do so knowing they get their laughs from schadenfreude, not from a desire to get everyone have fun.

[Buggy Boy]

This thread has turned into a (tragic) comedy, which I suppose we could all take away as a lesson here - life can be funny, people doing stupid things can be funny, griefing in a game can be funny, but sometimes people do downright annoying and nasty things too, and so griefing in a game can also sometimes be that way. So if you're going to go against the grain, if you can't stand to play nice with others, then please keep it funny at least (for all concerned, not just yourself).

[the.lovewyrm]

Originally posted by Cameron Hall:

Originally posted by the.lovewyrm:

[all that]

Pedantry and silent allusions to Criken and other youtubers that've given this game exposure does not an argument make.

We have no real counterplay. Your argument is circular as ♥♥♥♥. You're claiming it's acceptable that there's no counterplay because people getting trolled will teach them to learn to rewire things. But that's just self-justification. I've met far more people that got tired of the game because all it takes is one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with an entitled attitude and a screwdriver to screw over basically every campaign they come across than I have any evil min-maxers.

Also, hilariously enough, default subs can't even do the wiring lock. That requires taking it into the editor. The vast majority of people don't do that. And even if they did, that just means you've completely removed all forms of wiring to prevent the one potential bad apple.

Either way, you're pretty good at concern-trolling. Though you might want to take a break because you're clearly getting even more heated my guy. I'm worried for your health. I know you're super duper amicable despite literally everything you're saying being thinly-veiled personal attacks, but it's not good for your health to assume everyone has an issue with you personally. Sorry man, I think you need to chill out. Calm down a bit bro, it's just a game. A forum about a game, even. A bit of harmless discussion about how some people feel entitled to remove all the wires on the ship and act like everyone else isn't the bad guy for spending 20 hours learning wiring.

I have cited noone, and there certainly is no criken or whatever in the community section (I don't think) posting things like "Barotrauma in Russia" with some woman trying to sabotage a camera, etc.
Fact is though, the game is backed by memery more than serious play.
Although the honkmother of course is the pinnacle of seriousness.

Also, you're inventing yet another thing.
>You're claiming it's acceptable that there's no counterplay because people getting trolled will teach them to learn to rewire things

No.
What I said, which you conveniently did not even bother to >' in spirit but snipped it all away was:
Working with wiring...increases knowledge about wiring.
And it's not my argument that is 'circular' or whatever, it's yours.
your entire argument is hung up on the fact that anyone can, swiftly like the wind, with a screwdriver do a lightning drive by to change 1s and 0s in installations and mess up all the wirings.
And that's awful because noone knows how to wire.
And because noone knows how to wire, wiring shenanigans must be curbed.

...as if THAT increases wiring intimacy...it does not.
But that's your side of the argument, not mine.
Mine is the completely sensible notion that...by not stifling wiring, and workign with it, even through hardship, and nurturing and furthering the usage of wiring, generally, or even better, as a community.

Wiring knowlege/intimacy will increase and that itself will be at least a step toward defensibility, the thing you decry so ...for its lack of it.
But how will it ever not lack if wiring should be under lock and key, etc?

I'm also not the concern troll.
I'm literally supporting the entire breadth of gameplay the game offers, you (and Buggy Boy) are the ones concerned about the perils of wiring, etc.

This is why I suggested to you to take a break.
You're in an almost complete state of projection.

[Cameron Hall]

Originally posted by the.lovewyrm:

I have cited noone, and there certainly is no criken or whatever in the community section (I don't think) posting things like "Barotrauma in Russia" with some woman trying to sabotage a camera, etc.
Fact is though, the game is backed by memery more than serious play.
Although the honkmother of course is the pinnacle of seriousness.

Also, you're inventing yet another thing.
>You're claiming it's acceptable that there's no counterplay because people getting trolled will teach them to learn to rewire things
what I said, which you conveniently did not even bother to >' in spirit but snipped it all away was:
Working with wiring...increases knowledge about wiring.
And it's not my argument that is 'circular' or whatever, it's yours.
your entire argument is hung up on the fact that anyone can, swiftly like the wind, with a screwdriver do a lightning drive by to change 1s and 0s in installations and mess up all the wirings.
And that's awful because noone knows how to wire.
And because noone knows how to wire, wiring shenanigans must be curbed.

...as if THAT increases wiring intimacy...it does not.
But that's your side of the argument, not mine.
Mine is the completely sensible notion that...by not stifling wiring, and workign with it, even through hardship, and nurturing and furthering the usage of wiring, generally, or even better, as a community.

Wiring knowlege/intimacy will increase and that itself will be at least a step toward defensibility, the thing you decry so ...for its lack of it.
But how will it ever not lack if wiring should be under lock and key, etc?

I'm also not the concern troll.
I'm literally supporting the entire breadth of gameplay the game offers, you (and Buggy Boy) are the ones concerned about the perils of wiring, etc.

This is why I suggested to you to take a break.
You're in an almost complete state of projection.

tl;dr - "Civilians will learn how to not get stabbed by being stabbed. The criminals are doing a service"

Concern-trolling 101. Hopefully this helps your mental state though, man. I worry about you, I really do.

[Саныч]

-Wow, this spicy burger is so spicy! Cool!
-I hate spicy burgers, they hurt my stomach and burn in my mouth, there shouldn't be spicy burgers, who would like that?!
-But man, the spiciness is what I bought this burger for.
- You don't understand, you shouldn't want spicy food!
-But...
-Not!
-Oh, okay *changes oxygen tank to fuel*

[Cameron Hall]

-Wow, this gun is so cool. I love shooting people
-I don't like being shot, though. Have you ever even found someone who said they like being shot?
-No, but man, shooting people is why you buy a gun!
-If you want to shoot people, join the military or find another person consenting who wants to be shot. Or at least let people know you intend to shoot so the police can be ready
-Noooo, I deserve to shoot anyone I want. I paid for this gun. Even though I'm in a place with a no guns policy and everyone said they don't want to be shot

[the.lovewyrm]

Originally posted by Cameron Hall:

Originally posted by the.lovewyrm:

I have cited noone, and there certainly is no criken or whatever in the community section (I don't think) posting things like "Barotrauma in Russia" with some woman trying to sabotage a camera, etc.
Fact is though, the game is backed by memery more than serious play.
Although the honkmother of course is the pinnacle of seriousness.

Also, you're inventing yet another thing.
>You're claiming it's acceptable that there's no counterplay because people getting trolled will teach them to learn to rewire things
what I said, which you conveniently did not even bother to >' in spirit but snipped it all away was:
Working with wiring...increases knowledge about wiring.
And it's not my argument that is 'circular' or whatever, it's yours.
your entire argument is hung up on the fact that anyone can, swiftly like the wind, with a screwdriver do a lightning drive by to change 1s and 0s in installations and mess up all the wirings.
And that's awful because noone knows how to wire.
And because noone knows how to wire, wiring shenanigans must be curbed.

...as if THAT increases wiring intimacy...it does not.
But that's your side of the argument, not mine.
Mine is the completely sensible notion that...by not stifling wiring, and workign with it, even through hardship, and nurturing and furthering the usage of wiring, generally, or even better, as a community.

Wiring knowlege/intimacy will increase and that itself will be at least a step toward defensibility, the thing you decry so ...for its lack of it.
But how will it ever not lack if wiring should be under lock and key, etc?

I'm also not the concern troll.
I'm literally supporting the entire breadth of gameplay the game offers, you (and Buggy Boy) are the ones concerned about the perils of wiring, etc.

This is why I suggested to you to take a break.
You're in an almost complete state of projection.

tl;dr - "Civilians will learn how to not get stabbed by being stabbed. The criminals are doing a service"

Concern-trolling 101. Hopefully this helps your mental state though, man. I worry about you, I really do.

>I worry about your mental State Lovewyrm
>By the way, by normalizing and nurturing the interaction with wires for all players so they learn how to deal with wiring is the same as stabbing people until they learn not to get stabbed

What...
But even in this extreme non sequitur...you're still right, even though you're trying to one up me with it.

If you stab people with safe knives that have a spring that makes the fake blade push harmlessly into the grip...you can actually train people to defend against stabbings.

That's how some self defense classes are actually set up.

Now...use your projection skills ...which you are demonstrating so consistently, and extrapolate that on wiring.
If we could get people to play with wiring more...then...they might just learn about it...and can then defend, even if it's just a tiny bit more, better against wire sabotage.

You know...it makes sense.

[Kommandant Krabby Patty]

Originally posted by Саныч:

-Wow, this spicy burger is so spicy! Cool!
-I hate spicy burgers, they hurt my stomach and burn in my mouth, there shouldn't be spicy burgers, who would like that?!
-But man, the spiciness is what I bought this burger for.
- You don't understand, you shouldn't want spicy food!
-But...
-Not!
-Oh, okay *changes oxygen tank to fuel*

Originally posted by Cameron Hall:

-Wow, this gun is so cool. I love shooting people
-I don't like being shot, though. Have you ever even found someone who said they like being shot?
-No, but man, shooting people is why you buy a gun!
-If you want to shoot people, join the military or find another person consenting who wants to be shot. Or at least let people know you intend to shoot so the police can be ready
-Noooo, I deserve to shoot anyone I want. I paid for this gun

Ah, the duality of man. : )