Sooo what is the point of max health increase?

[elitkrumpleeharcos]

Here is the thing.
I checked the wikipedia, etc. to see all afflictions, etc.
I saw that many of the talents have maximum hp increase, etc.

but there is 1 problem tho.

99% of afflictions scale with vitality.

So basically by having more health the only physical damage types reduced are:
Bleeding

That is it.
Bleeding is the only thing that does NOT scale with vitality according to the wiki.

However here is my problem, becuase this is not enough, because some creatures get lower damage from antibiotics to organ, etc.(tested and only got to stack charybdis up to 28% organ damage with antibiotics)

There HAS to be some sort of scaling to health.

So I checked the vitality page for more info.

Not much I found.

so what is the point of increasing max health if it technically only increases max health regarding bleeding?

[The Kook who Cooks]

It's like the more I learn about this game, the worse it actually gets.

[climbingeastofwinter]

Fairly sure that weapon attacks, burning damage, etc are all non-scaling values, so higher maximum health means the percentage of your health done by those sources is lower, also, natural healing / bed rest / gene-based regeneration effects are percentile healing per second, so increasing your maximum health will increase the flat amount of damage you regenerate per second from those types of healing. It's possible for a standard human to be overwhelmed and die from some types of damage, like burning, before ever reaching enough damage of that type to be fully healed by certain types of medications; increasing maximum health should eventually bring a character to the point where they have the capacity to better benefit the more powerful medications, especially if those medications are applied by a character with talents that further boost the effects of applied medications or if under the effect of abilities that increase of the potency of received medical items.

Tl,dr; More health is better.

[Rotiart]

That wiki page is inaccurate, I know for a fact that opiate overdose does not scale with vitality, if you have the assistant talent and inject yourself with 100 fentanyl you will not only survive, you won't even go down. Your screen will be beyond ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up but you'll live

[elitkrumpleeharcos]

Originally posted by climbingeastofwinter:

Fairly sure that weapon attacks, burning damage, etc are all non-scaling values, so higher maximum health means the percentage of your health done by those sources is lower, also, natural healing / bed rest / gene-based regeneration effects are percentile healing per second, so increasing your maximum health will increase the flat amount of damage you regenerate per second from those types of healing. It's possible for a standard human to be overwhelmed and die from some types of damage, like burning, before ever reaching enough damage of that type to be fully healed by certain types of medications; increasing maximum health should eventually bring a character to the point where they have the capacity to better benefit the more powerful medications, especially if those medications are applied by a character with talents that further boost the effects of applied medications or if under the effect of abilities that increase of the potency of received medical items.

Tl,dr; More health is better.

They are scaling values.
The only non-scaling one is bleeding.

What I could expect is that it scales but not in a linear way.

I mean, i tested ALL the syringe gun shots with all the damaging ones.
Here are the results:
Charybdis test:
-Immune to all poisons(paralysis, morbusine, sufforin, etc. includes radiation)
-Bit damaged by burns (hyperzine, etc. shot multiple shots could barely deal any)
-Fairly damaged by organ damage.

I shot like 7x8 shots in the charybdis with syringe gun with broad spectrum antibiotics and it got 28% damage overall to organ.

It does scale for sure, but monster tests are not accurate becuase that means they have resistances for these things.

Which means that for humans it barely does anything if your health increases.

As an example, the health does not regenerate by default, so that's a wrong conclusion all by itself, you only regen with just a scratch or hammerhead matriarch gene.

It doesn't matter if the medication scales if the injury scales as well.


The only explanation i have currently is that the damage scaling is not linear maybe.

[elitkrumpleeharcos]

Originally posted by Rotiart:

That wiki page is inaccurate, I know for a fact that opiate overdose does not scale with vitality, if you have the assistant talent and inject yourself with 100 fentanyl you will not only survive, you won't even go down. Your screen will be beyond ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up but you'll live

The assistant talent basically describes tho:
when you fall below 0 damage you heal normal damage types at a very fast rate for 15 seconds and remove stuns.

I just tested it, it is not that it doesn't scale it is because the talent basically overheals it, which makes sense by itself. You need 3 fentanyl to die, but even 100 won't kill you with that talent as it heals more and opiate overdose is limited at 200 strength so it actually makes sense.

[Rotiart]

Originally posted by elitkrumpliharcos:

Originally posted by Rotiart:

That wiki page is inaccurate, I know for a fact that opiate overdose does not scale with vitality, if you have the assistant talent and inject yourself with 100 fentanyl you will not only survive, you won't even go down. Your screen will be beyond ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up but you'll live

The assistant talent basically describes tho:
when you fall below 0 damage you heal normal damage types at a very fast rate for 15 seconds and remove stuns.

I just tested it, it is not that it doesn't scale it is because the talent basically overheals it, which makes sense by itself. You need 3 fentanyl to die, but even 100 won't kill you with that talent as it heals more and opiate overdose is limited at 200 strength so it actually makes sense.

I'm talking about graduation ceremony

[FourGreenFields]

Baro is spaghetti-code. Characters with higher vitality are definitely tougher. Not sure if that's because the vitality-scaling is just for maxstrength being increased, or if there's some other shenanigan going on.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

I ran some tests.

Shooting a regular crewman (100 base Vitality) in the head inflicted 17% Gunshot Wound, while shooting a Security Officer (110 base Vitality) in the head inflicted 15% Gunshot Wound, indicating the security officer is indeed about 10% harder to kill than a regular crewman.

[shrekstyle]

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

I ran some tests.

Shooting a regular crewman (100 base Vitality) in the head inflicted 17% Gunshot Wound, while shooting a Security Officer (110 base Vitality) in the head inflicted 15% Gunshot Wound, indicating the security officer is indeed about 10% harder to kill than a regular crewman.

Did you strip them first so they didnt get any resistances from clothes/headgear?

[Rotiart]

Originally posted by shrekstyle:

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

I ran some tests.

Shooting a regular crewman (100 base Vitality) in the head inflicted 17% Gunshot Wound, while shooting a Security Officer (110 base Vitality) in the head inflicted 15% Gunshot Wound, indicating the security officer is indeed about 10% harder to kill than a regular crewman.

Did you strip them first so they didnt get any resistances from clothes/headgear?

If you shot a security guard in the head and they have a helmet (don't spawn with those anymore) it will do a lot less than 17%

[Flyin' High]

Originally posted by shrekstyle:

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

I ran some tests.

Shooting a regular crewman (100 base Vitality) in the head inflicted 17% Gunshot Wound, while shooting a Security Officer (110 base Vitality) in the head inflicted 15% Gunshot Wound, indicating the security officer is indeed about 10% harder to kill than a regular crewman.

Did you strip them first so they didnt get any resistances from clothes/headgear?

if are really so concerned, try shooting the shop keepers, they have intensely increased vitality without any armour, its to a point where they are actually harder to kill than the security.

[Саныч]

Stop talking nonsense and just get your tests right. I tested a lot in this game. Everything works very simply.

You have 100 hp. You get hit by 10 units. You are left with 90.
If you have 130 hp - hitting 10 units will leave you 120 hp. Logical and transparent, right?
Increasing health will simply allow you to take more damage.

Experiments with drugs or poisons may be calculated differently on a case-by-case basis. But I don't think you need to know it in that much detail.

[elitkrumpleeharcos]

Originally posted by Саныч:

Stop talking nonsense and just get your tests right. I tested a lot in this game. Everything works very simply.

You have 100 hp. You get hit by 10 units. You are left with 90.
If you have 130 hp - hitting 10 units will leave you 120 hp. Logical and transparent, right?
Increasing health will simply allow you to take more damage.

Experiments with drugs or poisons may be calculated differently on a case-by-case basis. But I don't think you need to know it in that much detail.

Yes, but here is the thing, organ damage is not a poison, it is caused however by broad spectrum antibiotics, that is the ONLY thing I found that was mildly/slightly useful for bigger creatures.

Also, nope, getting hit one for 10hp units will definetly deal more, because me and my friend played with mods that we can get all the talents which would make our health to be around 500 or more%, yet, with the boarding axe it still cuts really huge chunks out of our health when we hit eachother. Poisons definetly kill still at that point which makes sense.

And it takes about 7 hits for us to kill a charybdis with a boarding axe. (yes talents and genes are THAT powerful)

boarding axe without any talents dealt about 50% hp, now it deals 25% or so, yet our health is drastically increased from last time.

If it were "simple" then we would have lost about 5% health or so, but instead we still lost like 25-30%.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

boarding axe op film at 11

[Саныч]

Originally posted by elitkrumpliharcos:

Originally posted by Саныч:

Stop talking nonsense and just get your tests right. I tested a lot in this game. Everything works very simply.

You have 100 hp. You get hit by 10 units. You are left with 90.
If you have 130 hp - hitting 10 units will leave you 120 hp. Logical and transparent, right?
Increasing health will simply allow you to take more damage.

Experiments with drugs or poisons may be calculated differently on a case-by-case basis. But I don't think you need to know it in that much detail.

Yes, but here is the thing, organ damage is not a poison, it is caused however by broad spectrum antibiotics, that is the ONLY thing I found that was mildly/slightly useful for bigger creatures.

Also, nope, getting hit one for 10hp units will definetly deal more, because me and my friend played with mods that we can get all the talents which would make our health to be around 500 or more%, yet, with the boarding axe it still cuts really huge chunks out of our health when we hit eachother. Poisons definetly kill still at that point which makes sense.

And it takes about 7 hits for us to kill a charybdis with a boarding axe. (yes talents and genes are THAT powerful)

boarding axe without any talents dealt about 50% hp, now it deals 25% or so, yet our health is drastically increased from last time.

If it were "simple" then we would have lost about 5% health or so, but instead we still lost like 25-30%.

Test the damage in a regular game without mods and talents. The damage of the ax is initially huge. I tested all the weapons in vanilla in my guides - damage to bots with 100 hp and damage to an assistant with 250 hp - felt before my eyes and screened it.
Your problem is not that the "health formula is kind of strange" but how the damage is done and from what.
Chemistry will probably deal damage in %, I haven't tested the chemistry.
But direct damage is absolutely fixed (but still takes into account where you hit and with what talents the damage was done. Mods can also affect, so the test is needed without mods).

For reference: He most serious weapons my bots with 100 hp either ended up with critical wounds, dying or dead. The assistant with 250 hp did not want to die for a long time, even, sometimes, after shots to the head.

But a large amount of hp does not contribute much to survivability. Yes, it allows you to miss a few extra hits or shots. However, if you have 250 hp and matriarch genes, and you are equipped with a helmet and bulletproof vest, it's a completely different story. Matriarch genes with 250 hp work wonders and allow you to withstand mortal wounds.