I'm confused....CAN we complete the campaign in any vanilla sub?

[ben]

With the removal of the Deep Diver class and the upgrade rework, it should theoretically make any sub viable for end game content.
In the patch notes: "Now any submarine with full hull upgrades can get all the way to the end of the campaign."

It says "with full hull upgrades", but only tier 3 subs can get full hull upgrades, right? I feel like this gives even less freedom of choice than before, as now you have even LESS subs to choose from. I was a bit wrong. Thought there were more than 2 deep divers, whoops. Still, I wish any sub meant any sub.

I get that the game should be harder with the weaker subs (Barsuk, baby), but straight up making it impossible due to a maximum crush depth? That sucks :/

Alternatively, I know I could throw it into the sub editor and make it t3. But it feels like such an cheap solution for an arbitrary restriction.

[Buggy Boy]

Previously, if we went on 'subs that can get to the end without going below crush depth', that meant a Deep Diver, and I think from memory there were only two in the game. Now, any Tier 3 sub at least should be able to easily get to the end in terms of depth. How many Tier 3 subs are there right now? I haven't fired up the game yet since the update, but I'll bet it's at least two so nothing really has changed in terms of choice, I expect there will be more than two Tier 3 subs available, or that Tier 2 may be viable to get to the end as well (I'll find this out for myself later).

I would agree that the wording or way it's been 'sold' has been a bit confusing, it'll probably take a bit of play time to understand what's what. You're right though, I think the 'any' part assumes that you're willing to take any sub into the editor to make it a Tier 3.

[ben]

Originally posted by Buggy Boy:

Previously, if we went on 'subs that can get to the end without going below crush depth', that meant a Deep Diver, and I think from memory there were only two in the game. Now, any Tier 3 sub at least should be able to easily get to the end in terms of depth. How many Tier 3 subs are there right now? I haven't fired up the game yet since the update, but I'll bet it's at least two so nothing really has changed in terms of choice, I expect there will be more than two Tier 3 subs available, or that Tier 2 may be viable to get to the end as well (I'll find this out for myself later).

I would agree that the wording or way it's been 'sold' has been a bit confusing, it'll probably take a bit of play time to understand what's what. You're right though, I think the 'any' part assumes that you're willing to take any sub into the editor to make it a Tier 3.

You know what, now that I think about how many Deep Divers there were vs how many T3 subs there are now, my comparison was definitely way wrong. :p I'm gonna reword my original post a bit.
So yeah it's a BIT more freedom, but restrictive in its own way I feel.

Definitely gonna make the Barsuk tier 3 and try to campaign it up in that :)

[Darkside99x]

Having tried the update a bit I can say I think in the short term it will do more harm than good, having broken most of the workshop subs to implement and with everyone able to within seconds make a tier 3 version of all of the vanilla subs to just ignore the entire tier system.

It really would have been better to have a tier toggle for a campaign start to limit subs or not.

[Adam]

In another thread the developer said "Any submarine above tier 1 (which are intended to be the cheapest starter subs inadequate for the most difficult biomes) is capable of getting to the end of the campaign, provided that doing so on a tier 2 sub will be more challenging than on a tier 3 sub."

So any tier 2 or 3 sub should work, which is quite a few options.

[qwerm]

Originally posted by Adam:

In another thread the developer said "Any submarine above tier 1 (which are intended to be the cheapest starter subs inadequate for the most difficult biomes) is capable of getting to the end of the campaign, provided that doing so on a tier 2 sub will be more challenging than on a tier 3 sub."

So any tier 2 or 3 sub should work, which is quite a few options.

That makes me feel a bit better about my options; the problem I have with the current tiers listing is that all the tier 3 subs are quite a lot bigger than I'd have preferred, Though I was leaning towards switching to the winterhalter as soon as the opportunity arose.

What would have been ideal is if there were more smaller scale T3 subs available, though since this is all based on sub cost, I think it's a matter of just making a copy of the sub you want and then cheesing the price high enough to arbitrailly upgrade it to T3.

Does, that make sense to anyone else? I haven't really thought this through, but I really sorta just want to stay on the humpback.

[Adam]

I hear ya. If you play solo, it's more work to manage a big sub. Tier is only based on price by default, so you can also make a copy of any sub and simply set it to tier 3 without changing the price. That may or may not be any better, depending on your perspective.

Anyway, I don't think the tier system is perfect, but it's not unreasonable and the sub editor lets anyone change the tiers and generally customize the subs however they like, so it's hard to complain. :-)

[Rotiart]

Originally posted by qwerm:

Originally posted by Adam:

In another thread the developer said "Any submarine above tier 1 (which are intended to be the cheapest starter subs inadequate for the most difficult biomes) is capable of getting to the end of the campaign, provided that doing so on a tier 2 sub will be more challenging than on a tier 3 sub."

So any tier 2 or 3 sub should work, which is quite a few options.

That makes me feel a bit better about my options; the problem I have with the current tiers listing is that all the tier 3 subs are quite a lot bigger than I'd have preferred, Though I was leaning towards switching to the winterhalter as soon as the opportunity arose.

What would have been ideal is if there were more smaller scale T3 subs available, though since this is all based on sub cost, I think it's a matter of just making a copy of the sub you want and then cheesing the price high enough to arbitrailly upgrade it to T3.

Does, that make sense to anyone else? I haven't really thought this through, but I really sorta just want to stay on the humpback.

Small size is a virtue. If you had a tiny t3 sub with all the amenities of a larger compatriot, why would you ever take the bigger sub?

[Darkside99x]

Redundancy and durability mostly, I was happily sailing through the campaign in a compact, well armed sub and thought I was good to go, the black mollock removed that notion lol.

Sub was so small the emp fried it all at once.