button door or auto door?

[|TG| kak the bird]

Building sub and don't know if i like button doors over auto doors. What do you think and why?

[Bloop]

Button doors that automatically close would be the best solution. People are generally to lazy to close doors behind them which can cause massive flooding and possibly put you at crush depth. I'd also make a point that monsters can go through auto doors but you can make motion sensors only detect monsters in the sub editor and make door locking logic going off that.

[Paranoia]

having doors that automatically open is a good way to get your entire crew killed through either monsters or pressure.
doors that automatically close however is a great idea.

[|TG| kak the bird]

I'm using button doors and the bots still kill themselves

[Teo]

Originally posted by Paranoia:

having doors that automatically open is a good way to get your entire crew killed through either monsters or pressure.
doors that automatically close however is a great idea.

That is why I made doors that automatically open and close, but if water is detected, they switch to a button mode,

[|TG| kak the bird]

Originally posted by Teo:

Originally posted by Paranoia:

having doors that automatically open is a good way to get your entire crew killed through either monsters or pressure.
doors that automatically close however is a great idea.

That is why I made doors that automatically open and close, but if water is detected, they switch to a button mode,

have you put that in the workshop, if not i would love to see how its wired

[FeuerPhönix]

Originally posted by |TG| kak the bird:

Originally posted by Teo:

That is why I made doors that automatically open and close, but if water is detected, they switch to a button mode,

have you put that in the workshop, if not i would love to see how its wired

Pretty simple actually. The motion sensor is connected to an array whose set_state is connected to the waterdetector (water yes=0). Thus if water is detected the autodoor does not open.

[Teo]

Originally posted by FeuerPhönix:

Originally posted by |TG| kak the bird:

have you put that in the workshop, if not i would love to see how its wired

Pretty simple actually. The motion sensor is connected to an array whose set_state is connected to the waterdetector (water yes=0). Thus if water is detected the autodoor does not open.

I think you meant a relay.
And you need two. One for the button circuitry and one for the motion sensor circuitry. One is set to 0 while the other is set to 1 via a NOT gate and the they swap when water is detected.

[FeuerPhönix]

Originally posted by Teo:

Originally posted by FeuerPhönix:

Pretty simple actually. The motion sensor is connected to an array whose set_state is connected to the waterdetector (water yes=0). Thus if water is detected the autodoor does not open.

I think you meant a relay.
And you need two. One for the button circuitry and one for the motion sensor circuitry. One is set to 0 while the other is set to 1 via a NOT gate and the they swap when water is detected.

Yeah sorry, I was in another project in my mind. And no, you don't need a seperate relay for the buttons. I just build directly on the door. As it will go up anyway there is no incentive in pressing it, and even if, another circuit resets everything so the door is back in the basic state.

[Teo]

Originally posted by FeuerPhönix:

Originally posted by Teo:

I think you meant a relay.
And you need two. One for the button circuitry and one for the motion sensor circuitry. One is set to 0 while the other is set to 1 via a NOT gate and the they swap when water is detected.

Yeah sorry, I was in another project in my mind. And no, you don't need a seperate relay for the buttons. I just build directly on the door. As it will go up anyway there is no incentive in pressing it, and even if, another circuit resets everything so the door is back in the basic state.

How exactly did you solve disabling the buttons when automatic mode is enabled with a single relay?

[FeuerPhönix]

Originally posted by Teo:

Originally posted by FeuerPhönix:

Yeah sorry, I was in another project in my mind. And no, you don't need a seperate relay for the buttons. I just build directly on the door. As it will go up anyway there is no incentive in pressing it, and even if, another circuit resets everything so the door is back in the basic state.

How exactly did you solve disabling the buttons when automatic mode is enabled with a single relay?

I didn't disable, because there was no need. Everything I construct is done on a toggle basis. I almost never make "state" constructions, because they force you to go primitive or over engineering. Thus I just take two motion sensors, one that checks for people and one that checks for "no people". And if no people are arround the door closes seperatly. No need to let the motion sensor do all of the work. Makes it a lot more simple. I implemented the doors on my sub if you want to see how I solved it.

[Teo]

Originally posted by FeuerPhönix:

Originally posted by Teo:

How exactly did you solve disabling the buttons when automatic mode is enabled with a single relay?

I didn't disable, because there was no need. Everything I construct is done on a toggle basis. I almost never make "state" constructions, because they force you to go primitive or over engineering. Thus I just take two motion sensors, one that checks for people and one that checks for "no people". And if no people are arround the door closes seperatly. No need to let the motion sensor do all of the work. Makes it a lot more simple. I implemented the doors on my sub if you want to see how I solved it.

You do realize you only need one motion sensor to close the doors right? One sensor which has two states, sending 0 on false, which is when there are no people detected? And you wire it to the set state.
How is what what you are describing not over engineering?
What do you mean by "Let motion sensor do all the work"? Aren't having two motion sensors twice as bad?

you to go primitive or over engineering

Can you elaborate what you mean by that? It makes no sense because primitive/simple design is a contrast to an over engineered / complex design.

Also what you are describing doesn't solve the problem that someone in this thread mentioned. The whole point of the design I use is to have an override switch which toggles only when there is water, since during a breach you want to seal off rooms to prevent flooding or hostiles from accessing vital areas of the sub. But you still do not want to exclude the possibility to open those doors manually in order to be able to do field repairs.
During normal function, you want to move through the sub as fast as possible so the doors are only an obstruction - Thus they open automatically.

You probably mis-understood what @Paranoia meant and what I suggested as a solution.

The motion sensor is connected to an array whose set_state is connected to the waterdetector (water yes=0)

This is not what I meant as doing that will keep the door closed ALL THE TIME when there is WATER. I hope I cleared up the confusion.

Also
There is some truth to the fact that you can solve this with one relay by simply having the buttons toggled on at all times. But since I am naturally a perfectionist I dislike the fact that you can spam open/close the doors and create a state conflict by pressing the button when the motion sensor wants to keep it open. Such design seems unfinished to me.
But if you want to save on parts, it doesn't hurt the functionality. What I am describing is just a mere annoyance.

[FeuerPhönix]

Originally posted by Teo:

How is what what you are describing not over engineering?
What do you mean by "Let motion sensor do all the work"? Aren't having two motion sensors twice as bad?

you to go primitive or over engineering
Can you elaborate what you mean by that? It makes no sense because primitive/simple design is a contrast to an over engineered / complex design.

Setting states needs you to have one input source to keep the structure clean, otherwise you have two states creating nonesense. As I want to keep my circuits open for adding new features I need to "program" for toggles. I always do, except the circumstances make it better for the overall product.

To the "two motion sensors twice as bad" the answer is no. It makes the design cleaner and prevents missunderstandings. I maybe wrong. It was late when I made my programming here, so I might have missed an elefant in the room, but i renember there was a very good reason not to just use one motion sensor and call it a day...funny I don't get to the why now.

Originally posted by Teo:

Also what you are describing doesn't solve the problem that someone in this thread mentioned. The whole point of the design I use is to have an override switch which toggles only when there is water, since during a breach you want to seal off rooms to prevent flooding or hostiles from accessing vital areas of the sub. But you still do not want to exclude the possibility to open those doors manually in order to be able to do field repairs.
During normal function, you want to move through the sub as fast as possible so the doors are only an obstruction - Thus they open automatically.

why not make these buttons usable anyway? They are toggles, so no problem. That is why I built in a circuit that checks the door's state and resets when necessary. This way you keep the design clean and open for adding new features.

Originally posted by Teo:

You probably mis-understood what @Paranoia meant and what I suggested as a solution.

The motion sensor is connected to an array whose set_state is connected to the waterdetector (water yes=0)

This is not what I meant as doing that will keep the door closed ALL THE TIME when there is WATER. I hope I cleared up the confusion.

Yeah that being closed I made by adding an "or" component which has the waterdetectors as input and the set_state of the relay as an output. So long no detector alerts the door functions normally, but once water is present you have to use the buttons or click on the door. Simple and redundant :)

Originally posted by Teo:

Also
There is some truth to the fact that you can solve this with one relay by simply having the buttons toggled on at all times. But since I am naturally a perfectionist I dislike the fact that you can spam open/close the doors and create a state conflict by pressing the button when the motion sensor wants to keep it open. Such design seems unfinished to me.
But if you want to save on parts, it doesn't hurt the functionality. What I am describing is just a mere annoyance.

I don't toggle on/off. I use toggling by a single signal (I hope I understood you here correctly). The spamming becomes a problem only when you set_states. Not when you toggle.

[Teo]

Can you upload your design somewhere?
We might have a language barrier here because most of what you are describing does not add up to how motion detectors work in the game.

It makes the design cleaner and prevents missunderstandings

There is no way that two motion detectors when you can use only one makes it cleaner. You are wasting components, resources and extending the complexity of the circuitry.

why not make these buttons usable anyway? They are toggles, so no problem. That is why I built in a circuit that checks the door's state and resets when necessary. This way you keep the design clean and open for adding new features.

I think I already explained why. Here is my quote again:

But since I am naturally a perfectionist I dislike the fact that you can spam open/close the doors and create a state conflict by pressing the button when the motion sensor wants to keep it open. Such design seems unfinished to me.

Yeah that being closed I made by adding an "or" component which has the waterdetectors as input and the set_state of the relay as an output. So long no detector alerts the door functions normally, but once water is present you have to use the buttons or click on the door. Simple and redundant :)

I don't think the OR component plays any role here.
From what you are describing, you are doing exactly what I described in my last paragraph. You have two water detectors on both sides of the door wired up to an OR wired to a NOT wired to a relay which connects the motion sensor to the door. If water is detected on either side, the relays set state will be set to 0 and detector will be off.

This is EXACTLY what I described in my last paragraph and I also described why I do not like that, since, if the relay is on (There is no water) and you press the any of the buttons, you can create an unpleasant close - open loop.

The best thing would be uploading your assembly somewhere. Does not even need to be in the workshop so I can see what exactly you are talking about.

[FeuerPhönix]

Like I said, I built it into my ship. Or do you want a seperate upload for it?

[FeuerPhönix]

It makes the design cleaner and prevents missunderstandings

There is no way that two motion detectors when you can use only one makes it cleaner. You are wasting components, resources and extending the complexity of the circuitry.
[/quote]

Yes and no. Designing always hovers between complexity due to too many parts and distribution of "jobs". The second motion sensor made it more simple because it acts independent from the main one and makes sure the system resets itself (=closing the door).

But since I am naturally a perfectionist I dislike the fact that you can spam open/close the doors and create a state conflict by pressing the button when the motion sensor wants to keep it open. Such design seems unfinished to me.

Yeah this is why I work with toggles if possible. Toggles are a lot easier to calibrate and prevent none sense results when used properly.

Yeah that being closed I made by adding an "or" component which has the waterdetectors as input and the set_state of the relay as an output. So long no detector alerts the door functions normally, but once water is present you have to use the buttons or click on the door. Simple and redundant :)

I don't think the OR component plays any role here.
From what you are describing, you are doing exactly what I described in my last paragraph. You have two water detectors on both sides of the door wired up to an OR wired to a NOT wired to a relay which connects the motion sensor to the door. If water is detected on either side, the relays set state will be set to 0 and detector will be off.

This is EXACTLY what I described in my last paragraph and I also described why I do not like that, since, if the relay is on (There is no water) and you press the any of the buttons, you can create an unpleasant close - open loop.

The best thing would be uploading your assembly somewhere. Does not even need to be in the workshop so I can see what exactly you are talking about. [/quote]


It does. Because cutting off the motion sensor for opening the door makes it possible to use the buttons and the reset mechanism closes the door independent from the opening mechanism. It prevents the "inter" states.

Edit: I just noticed a bug on my doors, I will have to reevaluate my design :/