devs, could you bother yourselves to not shove adware into graveyard keeper?

[MonkehMaster]

instead of shoving adware into your older games, how about instead of doing that.... you actually bother yourselves to finish fixing graveyard keeper.

you left the game with bugs and performance issues, but somehow feel that after a year or so, that shoving ads into the game was something your customers would appreciate it.

edit: this thread was originally in punch club 2's forum, guess the devs moved it here to shield customers in that games forum from seeing what they did to graveyard keeper?

[Chameleon]

Agree 100%

[Hawk X]

I am curious what you are referring to here.. I have played Graveyard Keeper and all of its DLC and I dont recall any adware... granted, if it was added via a recent patch it would make sense that I missed it. Still, do you have any article/link/etc that shows what it actually is?

I do agree that leaving unfixed bugs and lacking optimizations is pretty sad however...

[Slaggo]

Originally posted by FireHawkX:

I am curious what you are referring to here.. I have played Graveyard Keeper and all of its DLC and I dont recall any adware... granted, if it was added via a recent patch it would make sense that I missed it. Still, do you have any article/link/etc that shows what it actually is?

I do agree that leaving unfixed bugs and lacking optimizations is pretty sad however...

Did a Google search and this is one of the first things that popped up (Google is really handy....try it sometime):

https://steamcommunity.com/app/599140/discussions/0/3810656323972409030/

[Hawk X]

For the record I did try google, but that result did not pop up... I searched for "graveyard keeper adware" and got no useful result... and promoting your own game is NOT adware... come on!! its publicity sure, and sad to see publicity of a new game when the old one still has some issues.. but people need to learn the definition of the words ;)

[MonkehMaster]

Originally posted by FireHawkX:

For the record I did try google, but that result did not pop up... I searched for "graveyard keeper adware" and got no useful result... and promoting your own game is NOT adware... come on!! its publicity sure, and sad to see publicity of a new game when the old one still has some issues.. but people need to learn the definition of the words ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adware

its for sure adware and in any case, the devs should be finishing their game (fixing bugs and performance issues) instead of abandoning the game and coming back to shove an ad in the game trying to sell another game.

[Antiga]

You realize Punch Club 1 was left in a rather bugged state as well? It's nothing new for these guys. And as much as I am excited for tomorrow, I'm afraid it's a mistake to dive in at day 1.
If the state the previous games were left at as a completely finished product are any indication, then I fear for an actual fresh release from this dev.

[Mental]

Originally posted by FireHawkX:

For the record I did try google, but that result did not pop up... I searched for "graveyard keeper adware" and got no useful result... and promoting your own game is NOT adware... come on!! its publicity sure, and sad to see publicity of a new game when the old one still has some issues.. but people need to learn the definition of the words ;)

This 100 percent.

[Lagkill]

I am excited to see where this thread leads.

[LyaranTirel]

Originally posted by Lagkill:

I am excited to see where this thread leads.

Probably nothing. The devs don't care about the players not to finish to fix things.

[Rose Brigade]

Having an ad in your game to promote your newest game is not adware. You need to learn what the definition of adware is.
"Adware - software that automatically displays or downloads advertising material (often unwanted) when a user is online."

Adware is akin to such software as CCleaner or any Iobit product that constantly pops ads up on your PC, or Pop-up ads from browsers.

Having a small image in the lower left corner of a game with a hyperlink is just called an "ad" but not "adware".

Also.. again it's just a small image in the lower left corner of the title screen, a screen you spend less than 5 seconds on before pressing "Play" to which the ad completely disappears until the next time you load it up.


Regardless, the game may have bugs still but it's finished. They aren't going to work on it any longer. Honestly, that's to be expected. Not all bugs will get removed from a game before it's completed. Name one game that's 100% bug free and no longer being worked on. You can't, because there are none.

Be glad you don't live in the 90s or early 2000s, when early game consoles were on cartridges and didn't get patches to fix their glitches and bugs lol. But I bet the people who know what I'm talking about certainly didn't complain about glitches in old games like the Warp glitch for Zelda OOT or the Missingno/Item Duplication glitches for Pokemon games lol.

[Ken]

Agreed w/ Rose Brigae and also GK doesn't even have many bugs. It has a few, but less than average for indy games.

Some people just like to complain.

Ask to speak with the manager I guess! LOL!!!!

[MonkehMaster]

Originally posted by The Rose Brigade:

Having an ad in your game to promote your newest game is not adware. You need to learn what the definition of adware is.
"Adware - software that automatically displays or downloads advertising material (often unwanted) when a user is online."

Adware is akin to such software as CCleaner or any Iobit product that constantly pops ads up on your PC, or Pop-up ads from browsers.

Having a small image in the lower left corner of a game with a hyperlink is just called an "ad" but not "adware".

Also.. again it's just a small image in the lower left corner of the title screen, a screen you spend less than 5 seconds on before pressing "Play" to which the ad completely disappears until the next time you load it up.


Regardless, the game may have bugs still but it's finished. They aren't going to work on it any longer. Honestly, that's to be expected. Not all bugs will get removed from a game before it's completed. Name one game that's 100% bug free and no longer being worked on. You can't, because there are none.

Be glad you don't live in the 90s or early 2000s, when early game consoles were on cartridges and didn't get patches to fix their glitches and bugs lol. But I bet the people who know what I'm talking about certainly didn't complain about glitches in old games like the Warp glitch for Zelda OOT or the Missingno/Item Duplication glitches for Pokemon games lol.

adware:

Adware is any software application in which an advertising banner or other advertising material displays or downloads while a program is running. The ads are delivered through pop-up windows or bars that appear on the program's user interface.

ie... a video placed in the menu of a game is adware and it wasnt needed to begin with, maybe they can instead fix the game they left with tons of bug and performance issues, instead of trying to get us to buy their next game they might leave again with tons of issues.

anywho, ads or adware is anything, placed for your viewing and trying to sell you something, be it sales on products, new products, ect.. ect.. ect.. ect.., so your opinion on what is an ad or adware, is horribly wrong.

the game isnt finished, you dont "finish" products and leave issues you know will cause complaints/ect.., thats not how it works.

buddy, i been playing games since the 80's on consoles and pc's.... bugs or issues back then were insignificant at best and the games that did have issues were bad games in general and barely anyone bought them.

90%+ games to day are trash compared to what was made back then and the quality and care they put into them, what do we get now a days? half finished broken messes, or open you wallet mechanics, gambling, skins, loot boxes, 100's of tiny content dlc for the price of indie games....

people didnt complain? i have seen people complain, but needless to say, we didnt have the game streaming platforms we do now, or steam (until 2003), but lets keep going... youtube was made in 2005.... and adding to that... we had dial up and AOL bs back before and during all that, you werent doing anything on the internet except trolling in chat rooms... because thats basically all there was, until youtube and then broadband (cable internet) and then the internet started picking up speed.

[MonkehMaster]

Originally posted by Ken:

Agreed w/ Rose Brigae and also GK doesn't even have many bugs. It has a few, but less than average for indy games.

Some people just like to complain.

Ask to speak with the manager I guess! LOL!!!!

wrong, the game has loads of bugs listed across the forum, you can find them all over google and in videos and streams.

no some people like to get a properly functioning product for their hard earned money.

says "ken", sorry thats your job LOL!!!, we dont need your misinformation here.

[Rose Brigade]

Originally posted by MonkehMaster:

ie... a video placed in the menu of a game is adware and it wasnt needed to begin with, maybe they can instead fix the game they left with tons of bug and performance issues, instead of trying to get us to buy their next game they might leave again with tons of issues.

anywho, ads or adware is anything, placed for your viewing and trying to sell you something, be it sales on products, new products, ect.. ect.. ect.. ect.., so your opinion on what is an ad or adware, is horribly wrong.

the game isnt finished, you dont "finish" products and leave issues you know will cause complaints/ect.., thats not how it works.

buddy, i been playing games since the 80's on consoles and pc's.... bugs or issues back then were insignificant at best and the games that did have issues were bad games in general and barely anyone bought them.

90%+ games to day are trash compared to what was made back then and the quality and care they put into them, what do we get now a days? half finished broken messes, or open you wallet mechanics, gambling, skins, loot boxes, 100's of tiny content dlc for the price of indie games....

people didnt complain? i have seen people complain, but needless to say, we didnt have the game streaming platforms we do now, or steam (until 2003), but lets keep going... youtube was made in 2005.... and adding to that... we had dial up and AOL bs back before and during all that, you werent doing anything on the internet except trolling in chat rooms... because thats basically all there was, until youtube and then broadband (cable internet) and then the internet started picking up speed.

The fact that you say bugs and issues in the 80s were "insignificant" tells me you don't know jack about early gaming lol.
Name 1 game that was bug-free at any point in history by completion.
I can guarantee you cannot.

I digress.
Bugs and glitches are not the same thing as monetization and marketing. Games are trash these days for a different reason than what made early games trash. Supposing you did play games in the 80s, your nostalgia and amazement of just experiencing games for the first time gets in your way of understanding the differences in quality between then and now. Back then bugs and glitches not only made it into games, and could often be game-breaking, but they were never fixed, and couldn't be fixed without the person buying a new version of the game cartridge or disc.
These days bugs and glitches can be patched out, but unless you're a master of coding, there's not a developer in the world who has made a game 100% bug or glitch free. Too much variation in hardware/software usage, too much compatibility management, too many coding variables and assets - no one is perfect, and no game is perfect - and that's okay. No game has to be perfect to be good.

A finished game is defined when the game has reached the end of its developing line. Regardless of if there are still bugs, unfinished story, features players want, etc. The game is finished when the Dev steps away and stops working on it. That's how it's always been since gaming was born, that's how it always will be. Sorry to burst your bubble. GYK hasn't had development for ages, it's finished. Period.

Your rant about how these days games have "lootboxes" and "DLC" is irrelevant to the discussion, because those aren't bugs or glitches, and your entire beef with GYK is that there are unfinished bugs and performances issues that the devs "should" fix. Yet if this is your argument then I propose that due to the original Super Mario Bros having some glitches that allow you to literally phase through walls and warp pipes, Nintendo did not finish that game before releasing it to the public en masse for $25 per cartridge (which was the standard game price back then, and considered a lot of money for a game). If your issue with GYK is bugs and glitches making it considered unfinished, then by your standard, every game since gaming history should be considered unfinished.

Originally posted by MonkehMaster:

wrong, the game has loads of bugs listed across the forum, you can find them all over google and in videos and streams.

no some people like to get a properly functioning product for their hard earned money.

says "ken", sorry thats your job LOL!!!, we dont need your misinformation here.

To add to this, I've seen many people say they've seen bugs, but I've never replicated any of them. I'm not saying they don't exist, because again anything can happen in coding, but I've either been very lucky, or people have just found the correct string of sequences to make them happen by sheer misfortune.
Either way, every game has bugs. Not all of them get fixed before the game's dev-time is up. GYK is no different. Sorry, deal with reality.

[MonkehMaster]

Originally posted by The Rose Brigade:

Originally posted by MonkehMaster:

ie... a video placed in the menu of a game is adware and it wasnt needed to begin with, maybe they can instead fix the game they left with tons of bug and performance issues, instead of trying to get us to buy their next game they might leave again with tons of issues.

anywho, ads or adware is anything, placed for your viewing and trying to sell you something, be it sales on products, new products, ect.. ect.. ect.. ect.., so your opinion on what is an ad or adware, is horribly wrong.

the game isnt finished, you dont "finish" products and leave issues you know will cause complaints/ect.., thats not how it works.

buddy, i been playing games since the 80's on consoles and pc's.... bugs or issues back then were insignificant at best and the games that did have issues were bad games in general and barely anyone bought them.

90%+ games to day are trash compared to what was made back then and the quality and care they put into them, what do we get now a days? half finished broken messes, or open you wallet mechanics, gambling, skins, loot boxes, 100's of tiny content dlc for the price of indie games....

people didnt complain? i have seen people complain, but needless to say, we didnt have the game streaming platforms we do now, or steam (until 2003), but lets keep going... youtube was made in 2005.... and adding to that... we had dial up and AOL bs back before and during all that, you werent doing anything on the internet except trolling in chat rooms... because thats basically all there was, until youtube and then broadband (cable internet) and then the internet started picking up speed.

The fact that you say bugs and issues in the 80s were "insignificant" tells me you don't know jack about early gaming lol.
Name 1 game that was bug-free at any point in history by completion.
I can guarantee you cannot.

I digress.
Bugs and glitches are not the same thing as monetization and marketing. Games are trash these days for a different reason than what made early games trash. Supposing you did play games in the 80s, your nostalgia and amazement of just experiencing games for the first time gets in your way of understanding the differences in quality between then and now. Back then bugs and glitches not only made it into games, and could often be game-breaking, but they were never fixed, and couldn't be fixed without the person buying a new version of the game cartridge or disc.
These days bugs and glitches can be patched out, but unless you're a master of coding, there's not a developer in the world who has made a game 100% bug or glitch free. Too much variation in hardware/software usage, too much compatibility management, too many coding variables and assets - no one is perfect, and no game is perfect - and that's okay. No game has to be perfect to be good.

A finished game is defined when the game has reached the end of its developing line. Regardless of if there are still bugs, unfinished story, features players want, etc. The game is finished when the Dev steps away and stops working on it. That's how it's always been since gaming was born, that's how it always will be. Sorry to burst your bubble. GYK hasn't had development for ages, it's finished. Period.

Your rant about how these days games have "lootboxes" and "DLC" is irrelevant to the discussion, because those aren't bugs or glitches, and your entire beef with GYK is that there are unfinished bugs and performances issues that the devs "should" fix. Yet if this is your argument then I propose that due to the original Super Mario Bros having some glitches that allow you to literally phase through walls and warp pipes, Nintendo did not finish that game before releasing it to the public en masse for $25 per cartridge (which was the standard game price back then, and considered a lot of money for a game). If your issue with GYK is bugs and glitches making it considered unfinished, then by your standard, every game since gaming history should be considered unfinished.

Originally posted by MonkehMaster:

wrong, the game has loads of bugs listed across the forum, you can find them all over google and in videos and streams.

no some people like to get a properly functioning product for their hard earned money.

says "ken", sorry thats your job LOL!!!, we dont need your misinformation here.

To add to this, I've seen many people say they've seen bugs, but I've never replicated any of them. I'm not saying they don't exist, because again anything can happen in coding, but I've either been very lucky, or people have just found the correct string of sequences to make them happen by sheer misfortune.
Either way, every game has bugs. Not all of them get fixed before the game's dev-time is up. GYK is no different. Sorry, deal with reality.

do you think frame perfect glitches in mario are fixable? sorry but they werent and thats not because of the games coding, its because of the engine.

now, could they have fiddled with or done something different to avoid frame perfect glitches after the fact? its possible, but its likely not something they could have fixed.

i would also like to mention, these frame perfect glitches arent something anyone could just do, you need some serious coordination and timing to do those.

anywho, if you really think they should be allowed to "finish" a product, leaving it with tons of bugs, performance issue and come back to shove ads in our face, then you have a horrible view on how the gaming industry should work and you are part of the problem, devs used to "try" doing good work, then they realized some people just except w/e they are given.. warts and all, they happily fork over cash... while ruining games for the rest of us.

you think us "gamers" are here to replicate bugs? no... we see.. we report and the devs can do the rest, we are here to purchase products and play them, not be used as free testers (when they used to pay testers) and ignored after they have our money.

"dev time is up"? sorry they dont have set times, their job is to "finish" the product, not stop at some made up time, you finish your product and leave it in a quality condition and you customers with a quality experience.

if dev(s) in general, cant do that, then they dont get our money and they wont sell as much on their next unfinished product, end of story.

those devs need us and our money, not the other way around, now deal with reality.

anywho.... this game has a whole load of bugs listed and documented, not only in steam and across the internet, but in videos and on streams, which also show the performance issue as well, these are facts.

that all being said, you have only 90 hours in this game and you come in here trying to brush off bugs and a performance issue, all while trying to argue with people who have played this game much longer than you.... kinda hilarious.