What makes Dwarf units so powerful in auto-resolve?

[Lampros]

Can someone explain some of the main factors that go into their auto-resolve dominance? I don't understand. The auto-resolve consistently show them have overwhelming advantage even when I have a far more costly stack (and in my opinion stronger stack); and I melt them in actual manual combat, too. It is really annoying that the auto-resolve is so in their favor, because 1) it is largely responsible for the Dwarf tide; and 2) it forces the player to manual every fight against them.

[titanopteryx]

Well a couple things set dwarfs apart from other factions. One is they have lots of armor. They other is they are more physical and less magical. So from this it would appear that high armor and high physical fighting ability leads to autoresolves favoring them.

[parent child bowl]

Messaggio originale di titanopteryx:

Well a couple things set dwarfs apart from other factions. One is they have lots of armor. They other is they are more physical and less magical. So from this it would appear that high armor and high physical fighting ability leads to autoresolves favoring them.

They also have a crap ton of morale. Quarellers (Great Weapons) should be absolute gods with unmodded autoresolve.

[goumindong]

It could be for a number of reasons. Either an auto-resolve buff due to difficulty abnormally affecting them or this next couple things.

Auto-resolve tends to pit like units against like units. And also may not account for leadership. You might notice that when you auto-resolve a battle that you might handily win normally you will lose a flat number of melee troops across all melee troops of the same type but potentially lose no ranged troops? And when this happens you might lose a unit of troops all together when you would have expected them to rout long before they died to the last man? This is because the auto-resolve function is adding up damage starting with your melee troops and wiping them out. And the dwarves who still have melee troops now get to "shoot your units with their artillery for free" effectively.

The other thing is that the auto-resolve tends to exemplify the power of unit counters. If you run a group of bretonian cavalry into a full stack of halberdiers in an actual fight the cavalry will probably win because they can focus on the halberdiers one at a time. But in auto-resolve the halberdiers will wipe the floor with the cavalry because the halberdiers will get bonuses due to their charge defense against all and anti-large modifiers.

Longbeards have charge defense against large foes. And as a result if you have large foes(likely because you are both not dwarves and cavalry tends to be more expensive) you will tend to get negative penalties associated with this. Ironbreakers have charge defense against all AND a special ranged weapon that makes them even stronger in auto-resolve relative to their cost.

On top of this dwarves have very high base stats and enemy units get free experience per turn, making some armies have particularly high chevrons. Since dwarven units stats are focused on their melee defense this matters a lot more in auto-resolve, which does not account for flanking, than it does in a real battle where you can get behind a dwarven unit and negate their primary defensive ability by 75%. As a result, in auto-resolve dwarves get all their advantages effectively magnified

As an aside.... I don't usually see a dwarf tide. Who are you playing as?

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

Dwarves are the strongest non tactical race that just runs forward doing basic ♥♥♥♥ and excelling at it.

They're the only race I've ever gotten heroic victories with. I'm not that good, but sometimes I play on hard so it's not like I'm completely retarded, and I have hundreds of hours played. Literally never had a non dwarf heroic victory.

[FlameWar]

Messaggio originale di The Sylvan Learning Center:

Dwarves are the strongest non tactical race that just runs forward doing basic ♥♥♥♥ and excelling at it.

They're the only race I've ever gotten heroic victories with. I'm not that good, but sometimes I play on hard so it's not like I'm completely retarded, and I have hundreds of hours played. Literally never had a non dwarf heroic victory.

Well, to be fair that has little to do with the dwarfes, and more to do with the compeltely bonkers categorisation of victories/defeats. I mean, fight 3 armies with 1, and win with less than 50% casualties? phyric victory. Fight 23 dudes with a full army? Heroic Victory (and yes, had that exact thing happen once). You shoudl pretty much fully ignore the calssification the game does, sinc eit has absolutely nothing to do with reality.


@OP: Autoresolve (AR), just like the AI, seems to generaly favor less micro-intensive units. So the dwarfes with their roster that is mostly 'throw troops at enemy in straight line and wait for them to be clobbered/shot up' does very good in AR.
Comapred to that, stuff liek artillery, good charge cav etc. usualy gets a lot mroe vlaue when you play a battle comapred to autoresolve, since you can fully use the micromanagement to max them out.

[Toaster Maximus]

High leadership, high armor and lots of other high things.

[Toaster Maximus]

Have to take into account how hard it is to send dwarfs for the hills even when you fight them yourselves.

[SirSanjiSlacks]

Messaggio originale di goumindong:

It could be for a number of reasons. Either an auto-resolve buff due to difficulty abnormally affecting them or this next couple things.

Auto-resolve tends to pit like units against like units. And also may not account for leadership. You might notice that when you auto-resolve a battle that you might handily win normally you will lose a flat number of melee troops across all melee troops of the same type but potentially lose no ranged troops? And when this happens you might lose a unit of troops all together when you would have expected them to rout long before they died to the last man? This is because the auto-resolve function is adding up damage starting with your melee troops and wiping them out. And the dwarves who still have melee troops now get to "shoot your units with their artillery for free" effectively.

The other thing is that the auto-resolve tends to exemplify the power of unit counters. If you run a group of bretonian cavalry into a full stack of halberdiers in an actual fight the cavalry will probably win because they can focus on the halberdiers one at a time. But in auto-resolve the halberdiers will wipe the floor with the cavalry because the halberdiers will get bonuses due to their charge defense against all and anti-large modifiers.

Longbeards have charge defense against large foes. And as a result if you have large foes(likely because you are both not dwarves and cavalry tends to be more expensive) you will tend to get negative penalties associated with this. Ironbreakers have charge defense against all AND a special ranged weapon that makes them even stronger in auto-resolve relative to their cost.

On top of this dwarves have very high base stats and enemy units get free experience per turn, making some armies have particularly high chevrons. Since dwarven units stats are focused on their melee defense this matters a lot more in auto-resolve, which does not account for flanking, than it does in a real battle where you can get behind a dwarven unit and negate their primary defensive ability by 75%. As a result, in auto-resolve dwarves get all their advantages effectively magnified

As an aside.... I don't usually see a dwarf tide. Who are you playing as?

Pre-Grom patch the Dwarves would almost entirely rule the right side of the map in most games of ME. Greenskins and Vampires standed no chance.

Now it seems that the Green tide with its buffs can actually stand up to that Dwarven menace.

[goumindong]

pre-grom maybe? I always find that it depended on whether or not you were order or chaos. If you're chaos focused then order factions get a few buffs so that you don't end up with the map filled with allies.

I suspect that the pre/post grom effects on the map have more to do with the distribution of factions than they do with changes to unit strength The simple aspect of moving Azhag to the north has huge effects on how the worldstate plays out.

[YMFTCTB]

auto resolve is racist, compare what it does with skaven armies to, in this example, dwarfs. no matter how much the odds are in my favor is skaven, a battle i win easily is shown as 60-70%. does it put my weapon teams into melee or something?

[JimmyTheSnake]

Armor + Morale

[viryu9]

Would make sense about defensive stats being valued more. Looking at autoresolve results for Dwarves, units like Slayers and Hammerers tend to get nuked, whereas Ironbreakers and rear lines barely get a scratch. Switching frontline to full Ironbreakers makes autoresolves an I Win Button.

Similarly for ranged focused Skaven armies, plague monks and assassins can literally die from one easy auto resolve if there there's just couple of those.

Amusingly enough, in Empire armies Helberdiers were taking massive casualties despite their charge defense. It might be because of their low armour value.

[Karl Power]

None of you has any clue about why the dwarfs are so strong. It's a combination of beer and beards.

[Captain T1]

Messaggio originale di Karl Power:

None of you has any clue about why the dwarfs are so strong. It's a combination of beer and beards.

+1

[Pervy]

Messaggio originale di goumindong:

pre-grom maybe? I always find that it depended on whether or not you were order or chaos. If you're chaos focused then order factions get a few buffs so that you don't end up with the map filled with allies.

I suspect that the pre/post grom effects on the map have more to do with the distribution of factions than they do with changes to unit strength The simple aspect of moving Azhag to the north has huge effects on how the worldstate plays out.

The Order tide, green skin tide, dawi tide, vampire tide.
They all depend on alot of different things then sololy one thing.
vampires use to have a way better corruption building in warhammer 1 and a more aggesive ai.
Order tide became worse after the empire overhaul.
Everyone got something besides chaos and beastmen so the main "enemy" is lacking alot behind. Also as a order faction you can just ally everyone since order likes order, and chaos hates everyone besides chaos, any evil faction mostly only like them selfs and mabye not even that. So order tide is bound to happen when like the vampire ai is set to passive.