Is there a downside to trade agreements?

[Evolutionsgemüse]

Wondering because the AI keeps refusing to trade with me. If both sides make money from it, it really should be a no brainer, right?

[Wh♂♂par]

No. If it puts someone else in an even better position, than you, you can bet your ass that it can have negatives.

[Mike]

Trade agreements are more likely to trigger with pre-existing treaties. Order something like-
Non aggression pact> millitary acces> Trade agreement> defensive allies > millitary allies. Having wars in common, agent actions against mutual enemies, common allies etc improves faction relationship, making trade agreement possible.

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

The AI knows that trade agreements benefit you much more than they do themselves and as a result they rarely will accept them off the cuff.

Heck, I would trade with people I'm at war with, but the game engine doesn't allow that :(

[Maschinengewehr]

Originally posted by aidenpons:

The AI knows that trade agreements benefit you much more than they do themselves and as a result they rarely will accept them off the cuff.

They tend to offer trade agreements and be more receptive to your offers when they stand to benefit more from it than you do. With the vice versa they are quite reluctant to accept offers that benefit you more than them, unless you are in a very good relationship.

[Raga]

When I play Bretonnia I can make trade agreements with High Elves much easier than any other pact. With others non aggression pact usually must be done before trading.

[Wh♂♂par]

Originally posted by Raga:

When I play Bretonnia I can make trade agreements with High Elves much easier than any other pact. With others non aggression pact usually must be done before trading.

Try the Tomb Kings as a partner. I think their AI is the most accepting, as they need it for their goodies.

[Moogh]

From what I've come to understand, for -most- factions (key word "most"), you need a relationship of +15 as bare minimum before they'll take trade. There are some minor factions that seem to be coded to have much higher thresholds ... mainly Kislev and the non-empire-humans (Tilea, Border Princes, etc).

High Elves seem to have a lower threshold because they it also gives them vision on your territory (at least that's how I see it). They'll often take trade with me before accepting a non aggression pact whereas every other faction will be willing to NA long before trade

[hammerinn]

Trade agreements still affect diplomacy with other factions. If you have trade with the empire then vc might not be too happy trading with you because you are helping them.

[cb4n28]

Originally posted by Raga:

When I play Bretonnia I can make trade agreements with High Elves much easier than any other pact. With others non aggression pact usually must be done before trading.

High Elves are more into trade than some factions because it lets them spy on whats going on in your territories

[Big Moustache]

Originally posted by hammerinn:

Trade agreements still affect diplomacy with other factions. If you have trade with the empire then vc might not be too happy trading with you because you are helping them.

And factions will happily trade with you when you fight a mutual enemy. Even biased factions like Kislev and Border princes, when reaching around +70 in standings.

[Major Moolah]

If a faction has the "Passive" trait they will not trade wth you no matter what, unless you are neighboring them. If a faction is not producing trade goods chances are they will not trade with you. Tomb Kings are by far the most trade-hungry nation in my games, and often the most treaty-making too. Druchii and Vampire Counts rarely make treaties with the lesser races, for some reason

[Brillig]

I finally found a good answer to this: there's a breakdown of what determines the attitude when you mouse over the attitude score. Looks like having many trade partners is the main negative attitude decider with these people who like me, so it seems like having less valuable trade relations might be a mistake if they stop your trades with the most lucrative ones. I've got minus 9 attitude from the trade relations I have already,

[CrUsHeR]

There is one downside:

If you make a trade agreement with one empire, any other empires with an aversion against that empire will disapprove.

Example with High Elves it's mostly Saphery being the boogeyman, if you make a treaty with them first then the others tend to refuse trade.

[Kirb]

Aside from diplomatic repercussions from trading with someone your neighbours despise, the only real downside is it can have diminishing returns I believe unless you produce a -ton- of trade goods.

More partners means everyone you trade with gets slightly less of what you're trading, making that deal less profitable overall. The best trade partners are big empires with lots of goods of their own...obviously.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Kirb:

Aside from diplomatic repercussions from trading with someone your neighbours despise, the only real downside is it can have diminishing returns I believe unless you produce a -ton- of trade goods.

More partners means everyone you trade with gets slightly less of what you're trading, making that deal less profitable overall. The best trade partners are big empires with lots of goods of their own...obviously.

Eh. Wrong, sorry, but utterly wrong.
The more trade partners you have, the more your goods are being sold in trade. Meaning no excess produced goods. If you're not producing enough there's no downside to trade. You still get the added base trade amount. It's never dimished. Go make a trade agreement without producing any trade goods. notice it gives around 60-70 gold? Each new trade agreement adds that, even if you lack enough resources.

However, big empires with goods of their own these will NOT buy the same goods from you. Say you're producing lumber and you wish to trade with a faction that makes lumber and furs. You will NOT trade your lumber to them and only import the furs. Which thankfully does not cost you money. So the more resources a faction has access too, the less you'll make of a trade agreement with them.