So why all the hate on Age of Sigmar?

[Green Raven]

Finally brought the corebook and checked it out... and it seems fun!

Fantasy Space Marines, only instead of arriving via drop pod, they literally arrive as a bolt of thunder! Thats pretty awesome!

The renaming of elves to aelves and dwarves to duardin is pretty silly, and there was no need to merge Gork and Mork into one monster, but these are easily ignored.

And there's an ENTIRE FACTION of slayers. Nothing but Dwarf Slayers, each tatooed with molten gold.

I dont think AOS will ever be a Total War game - the setting is too messy - but someday it will be an epic RTS.

[Tzenka]

Originally posted by Rawfire:

Originally posted by Albob:

you prefer translations over the Original names and terms??

Which is strange because, for example, with the Empire, even in English you are given a load of German names and titles, since they all speak "Reikspiel"

Yes because it fits the factions and it gave them personality, like some Brettonia with the silly french accent and some french words (Bourguignon).

It's not the bland english names with no appeal used for Age of Sigmar units just because of copyrights.

At least it prevents me to take interest in overpriced plastic figurine collection (even if I'll surely buy some from Tombs Kings).

[belisaurio]

Some inputs before answering the question:
-Warhammer Fantasy had a really low sales by the end of 8th edition. Some researchers pointed that paints had better revenue than the whole WHF.
-At some point between 7 and 8 edition, the CEO (at that time was one dude called Kirby) worked in a reboot of some type (you can google the first concept arts of StormCast Eternals, made by John Blanche).
-That reboot came with the name of Endtimes. A massive campaing done with 6 months that ended the whole story and game (2014-2015). The campaign was rushed (look for interviews with some writters if you want a source) and the players just started to get angry.
-A new game was born and was aim for a new public (so the old public become angry, me included with a 12k dwarf army on the shelf). Eazy start (money, you could start playing with 50€) with 1 page rules and some cards with abilities for your models..
-This new game wasn't well "made". And I mean, it was something between 3 edition WHF and fun/stupid rules (like your dwarfs hit harder if you have a beard or drink beer).
-The game had really low sales and at the end of 2016, Kirby was kicked/left and a new successor took the big chair (someone called Roundtree, the actual CEO of Games Workshop).
-Roundtree changed the structure of the entire Games Workshop, some teams were removed and new ones were created, AoS managed to become the 3 wargame played between from 2017 until now (2019)
-I play AoS (I started another army to play, my dwarfs still have square bases) and it's fun and all BUT it's still young (2n edition) and needs more time to grow (WFB had a lot of "bad" editions, but all of them had some type of refining, AoS is still growing and the game is not "finished").

So, why people hate AoS?
Because Kirby. The game is nice, the fluff is meh, but it will be good (Cubicle 7 is working in AoS RPG, they are the same people that fleshed the Old World with all the RP books), and with some time, I know it will be awesome, but the managing of the whole story is just a terrible and stupid.

[christiansenm7]

Originally posted by belisaurio:

Some inputs before answering the question:
-Warhammer Fantasy had a really low sales by the end of 8th edition. Some researchers pointed that paints had better revenue than the whole WHF.
-At some point between 7 and 8 edition, the CEO (at that time was one dude called Kirby) worked in a reboot of some type (you can google the first concept arts of StormCast Eternals, made by John Blanche).
-That reboot came with the name of Endtimes. A massive campaing done with 6 months that ended the whole story and game (2014-2015). The campaign was rushed (look for interviews with some writters if you want a source) and the players just started to get angry.
-A new game was born and was aim for a new public (so the old public become angry, me included with a 12k dwarf army on the shelf). Eazy start (money, you could start playing with 50€) with 1 page rules and some cards with abilities for your models..
-This new game wasn't well "made". And I mean, it was something between 3 edition WHF and fun/stupid rules (like your dwarfs hit harder if you have a beard or drink beer).
-The game had really low sales and at the end of 2016, Kirby was kicked/left and a new successor took the big chair (someone called Roundtree, the actual CEO of Games Workshop).
-Roundtree changed the structure of the entire Games Workshop, some teams were removed and new ones were created, AoS managed to become the 3 wargame played between from 2017 until now (2019)
-I play AoS (I started another army to play, my dwarfs still have square bases) and it's fun and all BUT it's still young (2n edition) and needs more time to grow (WFB had a lot of "bad" editions, but all of them had some type of refining, AoS is still growing and the game is not "finished").

So, why people hate AoS?
Because Kirby. The game is nice, the fluff is meh, but it will be good (Cubicle 7 is working in AoS RPG, they are the same people that fleshed the Old World with all the RP books), and with some time, I know it will be awesome, but the managing of the whole story is just a terrible and stupid.

I'd just like to point out that the low sales were largely the result of GW hiking prices to a ridiculous extent and pouring all their marketing into 40K.

[peremptor]

Originally posted by belisaurio:

Some inputs before answering the question:
-Warhammer Fantasy had a really low sales by the end of 8th edition. Some researchers pointed that paints had better revenue than the whole WHF.
-At some point between 7 and 8 edition, the CEO (at that time was one dude called Kirby) worked in a reboot of some type (you can google the first concept arts of StormCast Eternals, made by John Blanche).
-That reboot came with the name of Endtimes. A massive campaing done with 6 months that ended the whole story and game (2014-2015). The campaign was rushed (look for interviews with some writters if you want a source) and the players just started to get angry.
-A new game was born and was aim for a new public (so the old public become angry, me included with a 12k dwarf army on the shelf). Eazy start (money, you could start playing with 50€) with 1 page rules and some cards with abilities for your models..
-This new game wasn't well "made". And I mean, it was something between 3 edition WHF and fun/stupid rules (like your dwarfs hit harder if you have a beard or drink beer).
-The game had really low sales and at the end of 2016, Kirby was kicked/left and a new successor took the big chair (someone called Roundtree, the actual CEO of Games Workshop).
-Roundtree changed the structure of the entire Games Workshop, some teams were removed and new ones were created, AoS managed to become the 3 wargame played between from 2017 until now (2019)
-I play AoS (I started another army to play, my dwarfs still have square bases) and it's fun and all BUT it's still young (2n edition) and needs more time to grow (WFB had a lot of "bad" editions, but all of them had some type of refining, AoS is still growing and the game is not "finished").

So, why people hate AoS?
Because Kirby. The game is nice, the fluff is meh, but it will be good (Cubicle 7 is working in AoS RPG, they are the same people that fleshed the Old World with all the RP books), and with some time, I know it will be awesome, but the managing of the whole story is just a terrible and stupid.

Good luck with all that.

[Krude]

It was ♥♥♥♥ at first, people have come to accept it more now, it destroyed warhammer fantasy which tbh is understandable but that's obviously going to rub people wrong way.

tbh this topic has been discussed to death on the internet already.

[PyreStarite]

What I do is ignore it exists, deny the endtimes its end, and play TWW to "forge my own fate" for the world.

[Sieglinde Eilserv]

Originally posted by PyreStarite:

What I do is ignore it exists, deny the endtimes its end, and play TWW to "forge my own fate" for the world.

My plan as well, I ignore AoS the same way I ignore Battle for Azeroth. Completely ghost em for the obvious money grabs they were, expecting fans to like it while they got the R Kelly treatment.

[belisaurio]

Originally posted by peremptor:

Good luck with all that.

I don't need luck.I can still play with 6 edition whf and AoS.

[Smokerunner]

Full disclosure I never really played fantasy battle because im not into table top minis, but I cant stand AoS. I did play a lot of fantasy roleplay and my interest is more in the story elements and lore of the game rather than buying and painting minis. AoS was kind of a big middle finger to those of us who liked the setting and story elements of the game. Here are a few other reasons I dont like it and bear in mind its just my own opinion:

1. Fantasy/40k provides a much better setting for both role playing and video gaming.
2. 40k and Fantasy both have a vast depth of lore that has at least been thought through enough that it mostly makes sense. AoS makes no sense from a story perspective.
3. All the races are given really stupid names for no reason, it is super annoying. If they created NEW races and gave them NEW names that would make sense. However, taking the exact same races and renaming them "because AoS" only serves to irritate rather than invoke interest.
4. AoS is basically the worst genre imaginable to me. A pseudo anime version of Warhammer full of space marines with halberds instead of guns. It is not original enough to be really interesting.

I get why some people like playing it on tabletop, but they could have created an actual original game and done the same thing. The mashup of 40k and fantasy just seems lazy and poorly thought through. Combine that with a serious disrespect to the fan base and it just is bad all around imho. Sure, it makes GW money so bully for them. It may be a decent table top game to serve as a gateway drug for 40k, but to me a good game is more than just a set of rules and some mini's. A good game combines good story, setting, rules and can be used for a multitude of game types. AoS just doesn't make that cut.

[†Diablo†]

I love AOS, sure the Lore sucks but the Tabletop Game is great, so I hope that after Warhammer 3 an AOS part comes

[belisaurio]

Originally posted by Smokerunner:

1. Fantasy/40k provides a much better setting for both role playing and video gaming.

That's because WHF had a RP between 2 and 3 edition that helped in worldbuilding. Do yo know that the RP book is made by Cubicle 7? Same dudes that made the remake of WHF RPG? Maybe it will come something good from them, time will tell.

Originally posted by Smokerunner:

2. 40k and Fantasy both have a vast depth of lore that has at least been thought through enough that it mostly makes sense. AoS makes no sense from a story perspective.

I'm not sure that you are following the new setting post-kirby (City of Secrets, Garden of Nurgle, Spear of Shadows, or the new Gotrek Audidrama?). I find that this are better than 1/2 of WFB books. The game needs a bit more worldbuilding (hurry up Cubicle 7!!), but it's not "THAT" bad.

Originally posted by Smokerunner:

3. All the races are given really stupid names for no reason, it is super annoying. If they created NEW races and gave them NEW names that would make sense. However, taking the exact same races and renaming them "because AoS" only serves to irritate rather than invoke interest.

Agree. I'ts all about Copyright. 40k is suffering too.

Originally posted by Smokerunner:

4. AoS is basically the worst genre imaginable to me. A pseudo anime version of Warhammer full of space marines with halberds instead of guns. It is not original enough to be really interesting.

Fair enough. If you don't like high fantasy, that's it. But that's not what he OP is saying.

Originally posted by Smokerunner:

I get why some people like playing it on tabletop, but they could have created an actual original game and done the same thing. The mashup of 40k and fantasy just seems lazy and poorly thought through. Combine that with a serious disrespect to the fan base and it just is bad all around imho. Sure, it makes GW money so bully for them. It may be a decent table top game to serve as a gateway drug for 40k, but to me a good game is more than just a set of rules and some crappy mini's. A good game combines good story, setting, rules and can be used for a multitude of game types. AoS just doesn't make the cut.

Fair enough. Time will tell if they can improve the game AND the setting (imo, since City of Secrets and the world building of Chamon, the game is starting to look better).

Remember that AoS didn't kill WHF, it was Kirby, and he is not there anymore.

[Kia Sidhe]

As I get it AoS almost only attracts gamers that is also into 40K? I might be wrong but that is how it is around here.

[Dr_Kira]

Originally posted by Bolibompadraken Emil:

As I get it AoS almost only attracts gamers that is also into 40K? I might be wrong but that is how it is around here.

I dunno why it does tho, I love both fantasy and 40k and AOS is of no interest to me at all xD Good for those that are I guess but I dunno, nothing gives the feeling either of these do to me.

[Archmagos YD]

this hatetrain regarding AoS is so 2015. its getting aggravating like the guy in my local club who calls it "Age of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥" for 4 years straight but hasnt played A SINGLE GAME yet. just keeps doing it and still mentioning the stupid "fun-rules" from the beginning of AoS but has ZERO clue what its about in 2019. just plain ignorant and living in the past.

yes. the start was kinda ♥♥♥♥...the "fun-rules"...pathetic. and the transition from the old world to AoS was lazy and sometimes ridiculous. i wasnt happy about how GW handled it but i blame the former CEO and their ignorance regarding what their fans wanted to see for it.

i really, really wasnt into it at the beginning... in fact i hated it...but now? i think GW has done a good job the last 2-3 years with it (lorewise and rulewise). there are pretty dope lorebooks out there where you get your share of "grim-darkness" every warhammer fan loves and there were some stormhosts (i dont play them but i read a few books/listened to audiobooks) i really liked.

f.e. when i heard the first of Nagash`s monologues i realized AoS has potential and imho in a few years it will form into another great warhammer universe (a few intros of AoS audiobooks were put together in this "YT-video" where Nagash is having a monologue). different, but still awesome and unique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgJCb2nnsn0


of course 40k and the old world has/had a lot more to offer but especially the old world was in a dead end. it was hard to implement new factions and/or lore. with AoS GW now has the freedom to introduce new factions, countless scenarios, places and battlegrounds. it even gives the player more freedom to create their personalized army, which i did with my Sylvaneth and i love it.

Which Realm and region do they come from? their goals, credos? which aestethics do they have? of course still possible with the old system but in the old world i always had the feeling i had to follow the basic characteristics of the main faction because the world was somehow restricted.

now i am playing a Tribal Glade of the Realm of Ghur (Beasts) who basically attacks everyone who gets near their sacred Place of Power because they lost connection to Alarielle (or lets say the Treesong which the Sylvaneth normally follow) during the Age of Chaos. Even Stormcast/Elves/Humans or other Sylvaneth arent save but with the "Age of Sigmar" and the reconquering of the Realmgates by the Forces of Order they slowly get remembered of their roots as Protectors of Life and Order....but i still like the thought that they could be a "lost glade" and can never return to their former selfs who protected Life and Order and now just stay in their furious state.

https://imgur.com/a/UtVvs8l

stuff like this wasnt (really) possible with the old world if you wanted a personalized but still lorefriendly army. maybe thats just me but that was my experience with Warhammer Fantasy and AoS.

also the new models are great and sometimes breathtakingly amazing when you see them painted on the table (so i guess they will look great in a video games as well...)

tbh i currently enjoy playing AoS far more than playing "oldhammer" and even 40k (lorewise 40k still is king of grimdarkness and awesomeness imho). with the "new" AoS 2.0 rules its alot of fun to play...even i wasnt a fan about the battleround roll-off in the beginning but there are disadvantages to take the first turn. endless spells/mission objectives (f.e. you get 3 points instead of 1 if you hold one when you dont have the first turn) and decisions where and when to charge/get charged made me give the enemy the first turn more often than i first thought i would and i was able to win the game because of it.

in 40k everyone will try to get the first turn. and thats it^^

so please get your own view on AoS and dont rely on other opinions :)

Edit: me no native english speaker, plz no hate regarding grammatics/choice of words etc.

[TVMAN]

I don't hate it, it's just a different game and barely related to WHFB, so it's not really relevant here. People coming here to talk about aos are about the same as if they came here to talk about blood bowl or necromunda