So why all the hate on Age of Sigmar?

[Green Raven]

Finally brought the corebook and checked it out... and it seems fun!

Fantasy Space Marines, only instead of arriving via drop pod, they literally arrive as a bolt of thunder! Thats pretty awesome!

The renaming of elves to aelves and dwarves to duardin is pretty silly, and there was no need to merge Gork and Mork into one monster, but these are easily ignored.

And there's an ENTIRE FACTION of slayers. Nothing but Dwarf Slayers, each tatooed with molten gold.

I dont think AOS will ever be a Total War game - the setting is too messy - but someday it will be an epic RTS.

[Kaaz]

Cus it killed an established world, in one of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ways

[peremptor]

Hey whatever sells more miniatures. Also, sadly the best thing that ever happened to Warhammer Fantasy was its destruction. It had fallen into irrelevance.

[Olinser]

1) Because it burned the entire world to the ground in the most disrespectful way possible, and then stacked on top of that by replacing the Warhammer Fantasy ruleset with LITERALLY a joke ruleset. That's not an exaggeration. On the initial release of Age of Sigmar, There were no actual point costs or troop values, the rules were just a MESS and you could get bonuses for idiocy like having a bigger mustache than your opponent. It was impossible to actually play a game that didn't involve a huge amount of house rules and player agreement.

2) In the course of burning down the franchise, the canon story is idiotic. It has dozens of characters behave in ways that run completely counter to all their previous portrayals, they kill off dozens of characters, but then they transferred their pet characters into the 'new' world.

Best example - Elves and Dark Elves. Now don't get me wrong, I actually like Malekith as a character. He's functionally the Darth Vader of the world. He's an arrogant, prideful mass murderer that thinks it's his divine right to rule all the elves, and has spent literally millennia enslaving and attacking them to try and take control.

GW - LULZ U GUYZ MALEKITH IS TRUE PHEONIX KING. It's like.... what?

I hate Tyrion as a character, but the gymnastics they had to work through in order to get Tyrion to be the bad guy and Malekith to be the good guy was just ridiculous.

Allarielle - hey Malekith, yeah I'll totally marry you. We'll just forget about all those times you sent assassins after me and that time you were planning to crucify me on your flag in front of your conquering army.

A whole bunch of other stories played out in similar, but only marginally less ridiculous ways. Mannfred literally causes the destruction of the world with his backstabbing. Then... he just shows up in the next world with no mention of it?

3) We already have 40k. We don't need 40k BUT WITH SWORDS. I like 40k. But crap like the Stormcast is just LAZY.

[RCMidas]

We also already have "40k BUT WITH SWORDS", if you can find the rules for using Imperial Guardsmen and Planetary Defence Forces from the more primitive worlds. Yup, including horse-mounted cavalry and wooden-bow archers.

Older editions had a few splatbooks on those I think. They tend to try and keep that quiet these days. Like the Jokaero. Or the Squats and Zoats.

[Hyen《A》 ♧]

Had Age of Sigmar been a standalone thing and Fantasy left alone, I wouldn't hate it. But to kill something I know and like for something new that is lazily written and half interesting is why I hate it. Plus the rules just contradict the Fantasy ones. Air dwarfs? Seriously? There's a reason dwarfs can't be raised by necromancers and it's their innate resistance to magic.

[ChemicalBacon]

Originally posted by Green Raven:

Finally brought the corebook and checked it out... and it seems fun!

Fantasy Space Marines, only instead of arriving via drop pod, they literally arrive as a bolt of thunder! Thats pretty awesome!

The renaming of elves to aelves and dwarves to duardin is pretty silly, and there was no need to merge Gork and Mork into one monster, but these are easily ignored.

And there's an ENTIRE FACTION of slayers. Nothing but Dwarf Slayers, each tatooed with molten gold.

I dont think AOS will ever be a Total War game - the setting is too messy - but someday it will be an epic RTS.

They did a "BUT WAIT THERE MORE!" after the fantasy ending at which point Games Workshop found out they couldn't trademark basic stuff like "Dwarfs" and "Dark Elves" and pretty much every other faction title so they raged hard enough to come up with some really stupid and unmemorable faction names and retcon'd the ♥♥♥♥ out of the fantasy world because Games Workshop needed more shekels from selling new books, models and other IP to take advantage of another community who sees no issue with buying a codex (a handbook) for 30$.

It resulted in age of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, which has some of the worst hamfisted lore you will ever read and was only made for the purposes of allowing Games Workshop to hunch over and rub their merchant hands together for a few more years while a whole new community laps up their rancid, diseased ♥♥♥♥ and beg for more after they have licked the edge of their dogbowls clean.

[RCMidas]

Originally posted by ChemicalBacon:

was only made for the purposes of allowing Games Workshop to hunch over and rub their merchant hands together for a few more years while a whole new community laps up their rancid, diseased ♥♥♥♥ and beg for more after they have licked the edge of their dogbowls clean.

I really do wonder what Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone think about what their company has turned into. Of course they were out to make money, but I never saw anything that suggested a real willingness to screw over their customer base for it.

[ChemicalBacon]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Originally posted by ChemicalBacon:

was only made for the purposes of allowing Games Workshop to hunch over and rub their merchant hands together for a few more years while a whole new community laps up their rancid, diseased ♥♥♥♥ and beg for more after they have licked the edge of their dogbowls clean.

I really do wonder what Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone think about what their company has turned into. Of course they were out to make money, but I never saw anything that suggested a real willingness to screw over their customer base for it.

Probably drowned out.
The problem with Warhammer lore is that everything is just rumour unless explicitly confirmed by Games Workshop.
The point of this was to give fans creative freedom and the ability to write in almost anything they wanted.
But now it's abused by the hundreds of brainlet writers and GW who drool over their scripts because they never have to change or fit anything in - they just keep throwing ♥♥♥♥ at a wall until they produce something which isn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful and they then make that canon.

So now we get a tide of writing and lore written by a lot of writers who can't write anything Warhammer to save their pointless and pathetic lives. Any quality control or belief in the lore has long since gone and been replaced with "whatever sells minitures".
Part of the issue is the diehard fans who will lap anything up for any price.

[Mr Nothing]

Cause they took a vast unique gothic gritty medieval fantasy world that has a kinda ''grounded'' feel to it with a lot of room to explore, raped it into oblivion and replaced it with a generic world of warcraft-esque high fantasy thing with ground space marines in it.

[peremptor]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Originally posted by ChemicalBacon:

was only made for the purposes of allowing Games Workshop to hunch over and rub their merchant hands together for a few more years while a whole new community laps up their rancid, diseased ♥♥♥♥ and beg for more after they have licked the edge of their dogbowls clean.

I really do wonder what Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone think about what their company has turned into. Of course they were out to make money, but I never saw anything that suggested a real willingness to screw over their customer base for it.

Victims of their own success basically. WH40k exploded and left the fantasy variant behind so they made fantasy more like their bread winner because two bread winners are even better!

[The Pollie]

Because it took a legitimately awesome setting that was dark, ugly, and violent without being obnoxiously edgy and hollow and turned it into a generic, 80s power metal album cover divided between "gold/white" and "black/red".

[Firaeveus Carron]

Originally posted by Olinser:

1)
Best example - Elves and Dark Elves. Now don't get me wrong, I actually like Malekith as a character. He's functionally the Darth Vader of the world. He's an arrogant, prideful mass murderer that thinks it's his divine right to rule all the elves, and has spent literally millennia enslaving and attacking them to try and take control.

GW - LULZ U GUYZ MALEKITH IS TRUE PHEONIX KING. It's like.... what?

I hate Tyrion as a character, but the gymnastics they had to work through in order to get Tyrion to be the bad guy and Malekith to be the good guy was just ridiculous.

Allarielle - hey Malekith, yeah I'll totally marry you. We'll just forget about all those times you sent assassins after me and that time you were planning to crucify me on your flag in front of your conquering army.

The Dark Elf and High Elf lore wasn't that bad. I think you're exaggerating a bit.

Sure, everything happening on Naggaroth and Ulthuan being nothing more than a test for Malekith overcome in order to become the Phoenix King is a bit insane, but this is an insane fantasy world anyway and the gods are nuts. Tyrion reacting negatively and taking up the Widowmaker wasn't that bad, considering that we didn't really have that many fallen High Elves outside of the Dark Elves. The contention was nice.

Alarielle also wasn't pleased with the arrangements with Malekith.

[Hyen《A》 ♧]

Originally posted by Firaeveus Carron:

The Dark Elf and High Elf lore wasn't that bad. I think you're exaggerating a bit.

Sure, everything happening on Naggaroth and Ulthuan being nothing more than a test for Malekith overcome in order to become the Phoenix King is a bit insane, but this is an insane fantasy world anyway and the gods are nuts. Tyrion reacting negatively and taking up the Widowmaker wasn't that bad, considering that we didn't really have that many fallen High Elves outside of the Dark Elves. The contention was nice.

Alarielle also wasn't pleased with the arrangements with Malekith.

The Everqueen will always be blessed to birth a female by Isha who will be destined to become the next Everqueen. The plot twist that the child turn out to be Tyrion's is absurd because the firstborn will always be a child of the Everking.

And then the revelation that Malekith is the actual Phoenix King is stupid. He was roasted to a crisp last time and now he succeeded because he needed to stay inside a little longer? I guess the Sundering and thousand years of war that came afterwards was all just a good prank by the god Asuryan. Strike two.

The story was poorly written overall. Nagash and Sigmar working together to fight a common enemy that is Chaos? Understandable. The lizardmen of Lustria managing to fight the entire Clan Pestilens to a stalemate, destroying their clan in the process, and having many leaders killed in the process? That's actually okay. But Bretonnia's Lady turning into an elven god/sorceress That's a pure insult. If they really wanted to end the Warhammer universe at least do it right. The closest I can think of this dog poop is Game of Thrones season 8. Nothing made sense.

[ChemicalBacon]

Originally posted by Hyen《A》♧:

Originally posted by Firaeveus Carron:

The Dark Elf and High Elf lore wasn't that bad. I think you're exaggerating a bit.

Sure, everything happening on Naggaroth and Ulthuan being nothing more than a test for Malekith overcome in order to become the Phoenix King is a bit insane, but this is an insane fantasy world anyway and the gods are nuts. Tyrion reacting negatively and taking up the Widowmaker wasn't that bad, considering that we didn't really have that many fallen High Elves outside of the Dark Elves. The contention was nice.

Alarielle also wasn't pleased with the arrangements with Malekith.

The Everqueen will always be blessed to birth a female by Isha who will be destined to become the next Everqueen. The plot twist that the child turn out to be Tyrion's is absurd because the firstborn will always be a child of the Everking.

And then the revelation that Malekith is the actual Phoenix King is stupid. He was roasted to a crisp last time and now he succeeded because he needed to stay inside a little longer? I guess the Sundering and thousand years of war that came afterwards was all just a good prank by the god Asuryan. Strike two.

The story was poorly written overall. Nagash and Sigmar working together to fight a common enemy that is Chaos? Understandable. The lizardmen of Lustria managing to fight the entire Clan Pestilens to a stalemate, destroying their clan in the process, and having many leaders killed in the process? That's actually okay. But Bretonnia's Lady turning into an elven god/sorceress That's a pure insult. If they really wanted to end the Warhammer universe at least do it right. The closest I can think of this dog poop is Game of Thrones season 8. Nothing made sense.

*Alarielle The EverTHOT

[Green Raven]

Huh. I hear you.
I guess I kind of see AOS and the original universe as two distinct, seperate things, especially as Ive only ever visited the world via video game.