Why don’t people like the End Times?

[Dweller Beyond the Threshold]

It’s just so epic. And the plot -at least what i read so far on the Warhammer wiki- is just fascinating. Each faction facing unprecedented threat with plenty of intrigues, twists and turns. I can’t wait for game 3 if the End Times is going to be its theme. Really hope for an painfully difficult survival campaign against insurmountable hordes of chaos.

[Darkaiser]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Joe Chip:

People generally like the end Times.

They just don't like what comes after.

Please don't speak for 'people' unless you know a LOT of them.

The End Times had a good start. There was progress in the timeline and so forth. We had the rather interesting (to me) idea that one of the most evil creatures ever (Nagash) was going to be the only one strong enough to resist the surge of Chaos. Then some really stupid stuff happened.

It culminated with Grimgor Ironhide, the baddest Ork warboss ever, defeating Archeon the Everchose, leader of the united Chaos forces, by LITERALLY kicking him in the nards.

The world ended pretty much right there. Best example of 'writers having no clue' since Lost.

[Avenger93]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Tyrion_Lord_Imp:

It’s just so epic. And the plot -at least what i read so far on the Warhammer wiki- is just fascinating. Each faction facing unprecedented threat with plenty of intrigues, twists and turns. I can’t wait for game 3 if the End Times is going to be its theme. Really hope for an painfully difficult survival campaign against insurmountable hordes of chaos.

That's why you don't read the curated and succintly sumarised wikia and read the actual books.

Because they are a mess, and because you can't have the same context. For someone who was in the universe for years reading every bit of lore you can, End Times was an abortion of cosmic proportions no two ways about it. The writing was beyond retarded, they straight up killed a lot of major factions before the apocalypse even got on the road (TKs were wiped out and integrated into Nagash's party, lizardmen were nuked by the skaven before they could do anything, bretonia was wiped out off-screen), not to mention the epic levels of brainfart malekith was in the End Times. Sure, a neat ideea in theory, IF ONLY we did not have the sundering, the elf civil war and the invasion of ulthuan plus many other tid-bits of lore that show that malekith is indeed a giant straight up evil ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who consorts with and uses no less than slaneeshi demon legions in his service trying to conquer ulthuan. To then pretend malekith is indeed a good guy is just ... stupid.

The End Times was rushed, written in complete ignorance of the previous universe's lore, wiped out a lot of factions, and it was obviously just a stupid atempt to copyright everything as well as bring space marines into the setting with no concern for how things actualy work and WHY fantasy was it's own special universe. In that regard, Dark Millenium in 40k was executed with a lot more care and respect for the universe than End Times ever was.

And just to add salt to the wound: when Age of (S)hitmar came out, it did away with factions that people used to play for no reason! My Tomb Kings army with glorious Settra leading it became little more than dust magnets on my shelf. The Empire while technicaly still existing, has all but been written out of the lore and repalced with the sigmarines, turning the setting from grim but heroic, with normal humans standing their ground against he odds against the chaos warriors and their legions of demons and monsters into a setting of saturday morning beefy pastel colored superheroes fighting equaly pastel and shiny "chaos" warriors. 40k can at least keep the marine on marine conflict grity and the marines are notably human and few, but the sigmarines are legions of perfect angels. It's stupid, it's childish, it was born out of one of the worst examples of rushed writting in recent history and oh yeah it made a lot of factions no longer exist that people loved and played.

That's why people hate the End Times.

Not that End Times did not have SOME good ideeas. The Verminlords were a great ideea and very skaveny in execution (cowardly greater demons ftw), Settra's bits were amazingly well done and fitting, a warning sign that we will never see Settra again in hindsight, Malekith would have been a good ideea IF they retconned the entirety of malekith's history. But overall ... it's crap in execution, crap in concept and crap in it's outcome.

[Maschinengewehr]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Darkaiser:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Joe Chip:

People generally like the end Times.

They just don't like what comes after.

Please don't speak for 'people' unless you know a LOT of them.

The End Times had a good start. There was progress in the timeline and so forth. We had the rather interesting (to me) idea that one of the most evil creatures ever (Nagash) was going to be the only one strong enough to resist the surge of Chaos. Then some really stupid stuff happened.

It culminated with Grimgor Ironhide, the baddest Ork warboss ever, defeating Archeon the Everchose, leader of the united Chaos forces, by LITERALLY kicking him in the nards.

The world ended pretty much right there. Best example of 'writers having no clue' since Lost.

The world didnt blow up because Archaon got kicked in the nuts by Grimgor (which was later retconned to Grimgor headbutting him and smashing one of the eyes of Ed Sheerian, to which Archaon replied by unleashing the greater daemon contained within Kingslayer upon Grimgor, killing him). It was Mannfred literally backstabbing Balthasar Gelt as he was attempting to close the void under Middenheim because...reasons.

[Free Luigi M.]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Darkaiser:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Joe Chip:

People generally like the end Times.

They just don't like what comes after.

Please don't speak for 'people' unless you know a LOT of them.

The End Times had a good start. There was progress in the timeline and so forth. We had the rather interesting (to me) idea that one of the most evil creatures ever (Nagash) was going to be the only one strong enough to resist the surge of Chaos. Then some really stupid stuff happened.

It culminated with Grimgor Ironhide, the baddest Ork warboss ever, defeating Archeon the Everchose, leader of the united Chaos forces, by LITERALLY kicking him in the nards.

The world ended pretty much right there. Best example of 'writers having no clue' since Lost.

Jesus Christ.

First of all, when people use the term "people", they mean "the vast majority". Referring to popular reaction. So you can ♥♥♥♥ right off with your attitude, because you are no one important.

Second, you confuse End Times with the old, non-canon, Storm of Chaos. And you know nothing about both.

Grimgor "defeats" (right...) Archaon only in the old Storm of Chaos. And NOT by "literally kicking him in the nards". He uses and headbutt. And I won't even go into detail on why it's completely irrelevant, since it was a complete sucker punch after archaon had just wooped the ass of the champion of Sigmar and Luthor. The myth about Grimgor kicking Archaon in the nuts is widespread among nabs new to the setting, who keep repeating it and passing it on as a perpetual inaccuracy.

In the actual End Times a LOT more stuff happens. As for Grimgor vs Archaon, Archaon kills Grimgor during their duel by separating his head from his body.

Overall, End Times was rushed in parts, certain loose ends and storylines had to get the short stick. But it was an interesting setting.

The immense hate that followed it is 90% due to the fact it obliterated the decade old and beloved WFB setting, replacing it with some insipid ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Gangalugar]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Joe Chip:

Jesus Christ.

First of all, when people use the term "people", they mean "the vast majority". Referring to popular reaction. So you can ♥♥♥♥ right off with your attitude, because you are no one important.

Second, you confuse End Times with the old, non-canon, Storm of Chaos. And you know nothing about both.

Grimgor "defeats" (right...) Archaon only in the old Storm of Chaos. And NOT by "literally kicking him in the nards". He uses and headbutt. And I won't even go into detail on why it's completely irrelevant, since it was a complete sucker punch after archaon had just wooped the ass of the champion of Sigmar and Luthor. The myth about Grimgor kicking Archaon in the nuts is widespread among nabs new to the setting, who keep repeating it and passing it on as a perpetual inaccuracy.

In the actual End Times a LOT more stuff happens. As for Grimgor vs Archaon, Archaon kills Grimgor during their duel by separating his head from his body.

Overall, End Times was rushed in parts, certain loose ends and storylines had to get the short stick. But it was an interesting setting.

The immense hate that followed it is 90% due to the fact it obliterated the decade old and beloved WFB setting, replacing it with some insipid ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Let's not even mention what they did to Malus Darkblade.....

[00yiggdrasill00]

it was the execution for me. it was ham fisted and showed a deep disrespect for the setting, the characters and the works of people who came before them. i dont mind change, wouldnt even mind it if they ended the setting, as ling as it had been done right, it wasnt

[Grigorim]

Ursprungligen skrivet av 00yiggdrasill00:

it was the execution for me. it was ham fisted and showed a deep disrespect for the setting, the characters and the works of people who came before them. i dont mind change, wouldnt even mind it if they ended the setting, as ling as it had been done right, it wasnt

I wish they were different ages but existed and were supported in parellel, kind of like how i imagine horus and 40k are different times.
But I entirely agree because the scorched earth salt and piss on the ground approach is why I have to put on my asbestos suit whenever I suggest AoS

[Alpharius]

Because it's poorly written trash that gets a lot about the races and characters wrong and forces plots that don't fit just to speed up the story. It was rushed and poorly written so they could reboot Warhammer Fantasy as something stupid and unlikable for the lowest common denominator. The rules for the game were apparently overcomplicated so Fantasy didn't have a lot of players, so instead of fixing the rules, they nuked the setting and made it a 40K knockoff with simple rules.

[The Hat]

Let's run through all the common reasons. I won't argue 4 as that isn't my complaint, I don't play anymore and it isn't likely I ever will in the current format.

1, People lost boat loads of money on minatures.
2, The lore was completely trashed rather than cherry picked.
3, Lots of stories made no sense, or characters were just missed entirely.
4, It heralded in a more casual version of the game.

[The Hat]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Maschinengewehr:

It was Mannfred literally backstabbing Balthasar Gelt as he was attempting to close the void under Middenheim because...reasons.

Yeah it was like mannfred just suddenly broke character and joined chaos.

[Macros]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but compared to End Times, Storm of Chaos was something tasteful and reasonable. And that was the "epilogue" with Grimgor randomly teleporting to headbut Archaon, Belakor showing up with a demon army only for Teclis to go "lol nope" and banish them all, Manfredd showing up with his army in tow, seeing a very mean-looking Sigmar priest and deciding that finally, he might as well just go back home...

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Hat:

Yeah it was like mannfred just suddenly broke character and joined chaos.

And this is why I always made a point of murdering his ass when playing Vlad. Don't care if he's a legendary lord you could eventually get for yourself, some things are just not worth it!

[Old Gin]

I'm not even a big Warhammer fan but I've read enough about it to know this just diculous, seriously the rest of the story could've been whatever the f*ck but Christ, making Malekith a good guy after everything and then subsequently killing him off? Real d*ck move.

It would've been more believable to have the Skaven turn out to be the good guys, honestly.

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Ursprungligen skrivet av Tyrion_Lord_Imp:

not to mention the epic levels of brainfart malekith was in the End Times. Sure, a neat ideea in theory, IF ONLY we did not have the sundering, the elf civil war and the invasion of ulthuan plus many other tid-bits of lore that show that malekith is indeed a giant straight up evil ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

[Macros]

Ursprungligen skrivet av ♔Charlie Buckethat♔:

I'm not even a big Warhammer fan but I've read enough about it to know this just diculous, seriously the rest of the story could've been whatever the f*ck but Christ, making Malekith a good guy after everything and then subsequently killing him off? Real d*ck move.

It would've been more believable to have the Skaven turn out to be the good guys, honestly.

_______________________________________________________________

Ursprungligen skrivet av Tyrion_Lord_Imp:

not to mention the epic levels of brainfart malekith was in the End Times. Sure, a neat ideea in theory, IF ONLY we did not have the sundering, the elf civil war and the invasion of ulthuan plus many other tid-bits of lore that show that malekith is indeed a giant straight up evil ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Oh yeah, that was pretty stupid.

"Hey guys, I know I launched a civil war after poisoning most of your nobility, tired to invade Ulthuan quite a few times, almost sank the island once, ruined your race and dwarves by setting them up against each other, tried to kill the Everqueen a couple of times, unleashed a few demons on you because why not, but it turns out I'm a good guy! So, can I be Phoenix King now?"
"... Say what?"

[Free Luigi M.]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Macros:

Ursprungligen skrivet av ♔Charlie Buckethat♔:

I'm not even a big Warhammer fan but I've read enough about it to know this just diculous, seriously the rest of the story could've been whatever the f*ck but Christ, making Malekith a good guy after everything and then subsequently killing him off? Real d*ck move.

It would've been more believable to have the Skaven turn out to be the good guys, honestly.

_______________________________________________________________

Oh yeah, that was pretty stupid.

"Hey guys, I know I launched a civil war after poisoning most of your nobility, tired to invade Ulthuan quite a few times, almost sank the island once, ruined your race and dwarves by setting them up against each other, tried to kill the Everqueen a couple of times, unleashed a few demons on you because why not, but it turns out I'm a good guy! So, can I be Phoenix King now?"
"... Say what?"

If, as the lore claims, all of that was a test to assess if he would be a worthy Phoenix King, he straight up bombed it into oblivion.

Ursprungligen skrivet av ♔Charlie Buckethat♔:

I'm not even a big Warhammer fan but I've read enough about it to know this just diculous, seriously the rest of the story could've been whatever the f*ck but Christ, making Malekith a good guy after everything and then subsequently killing him off? Real d*ck move.

It would've been more believable to have the Skaven turn out to be the good guys, honestly.

Well they didn't kill off Malekith. He died with everyone else at the end.

[Baragon-Kun]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Macros:

And this is why I always made a point of murdering his ass when playing Vlad. Don't care if he's a legendary lord you could eventually get for yourself, some things are just not worth it!

So much this.

I actually used to like Mannfred back in the day. You know, all the way back when he looked like a Bela Lugosi type vampire. But since he turned into an incompetent traitor in the end times i only have disgust for him. He is the one character that made the Age of Sigmar possible in the lore. Everybody, even the undead, came together to try to save the world, but that ♥♥♥♥ had to screw it all up.
Vlad is and was always infinitely more awesome than Manlet von Carstein anyway.

Ursprungligen skrivet av ♔Charlie Buckethat♔:

I'm not even a big Warhammer fan but I've read enough about it to know this just diculous, seriously the rest of the story could've been whatever the f*ck but Christ, making Malekith a good guy after everything and then subsequently killing him off? Real d*ck move.

Malekith did not even die, as far as a know. He physically merged with his dragon and became the god of all elves, or something stupid like that.