Amunet – selfishness that born the Creed -SPOILER-

[Epero]

SPOILER – of course
Just want to know you opinion on Aya.

She is simply selfish, egoistic person who only look out for herself. Yes, she had tragedy when her child was murdered. But same did Bayek. And he didn´t stopped loving her. He always wants to reconnect with her. But she doesn´t even tried. She is in pursuing of her quest for greatness.
It seems like motherhood only hold her back and that she never loved Bayek. She respects him as a Medjay, as a fighter, but there is no deep bound. So is questionable why she married him in the first place. And in some way it looks like death of her child frees her from shackles of family and she could finally do what she want.

She wanted to be something. First as a Medjay, then as a Blade of Cleopatra and when all that failed, she stop following and create her own cult where she choose purpose in life that makes her feel important. Because being mother, or wife, or simply good person doing good deeds (like her husband) wasn´t enough for her. You can feel it from her talks and attitude when she talks about Cleopatra (before she disappointed Aya).
And after their quest is complete, after they revenge their son, she left for Rome. Bayek try to be with her from beginning and she always “after this, after that” and then she left him for her personal reasons. She didn´t even try to be close to him, to run Brotherhood from Egypt and help her former husband.
She always wanted something great and makes excuse that it is for higher purpose. But it is just plain excuse for her to be someone who made difference. But it is for herself. She feels good about it and wants it for herself. Bayek helps everyone around him selflessly. He did it because it is right thing to do and doesn´t want to be recognized as a symbol, as a hand of queen, or king, or as someone who he isn´t.
She even changes her name from Aya to Amunet, to be something more than she was. Bayek doesn´t feel the need to change name. When she returns in DLC “The Hidden Ones”, she is dressed as a princess to show that she is somebody. And let even her former husband call her “Amunet”. It is sick.

And at the end she is chosen as Mentor of brotherhood. Why? She killed Cezar. Yes, very important figure. But otherwise she blindly follows Cleopatra, while Bayek did everything. He killed almost all form Order, he found out all evidence and kill all newly discovered members of order, he saved Cleopatra – he did everything. All first members of brotherhood became members because of him, because of his actions and character. She have one prominent kill, she follow her own goals and was years away with Cleopatra, she didn´t helped people like Bayek, she renounce here name and love (if she loved him. Maybe she just wanted childe. She said that Cleopatra was more than a friend) what is practically betrayal of her heritage, ancestors and vows. So there is no reason to make her Mentor of Brotherhood. There is no reason to even like her.

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+1
Havent gone through the DLC yet, but throughout the main story, Aya seems to be relieved from being a mother as you say.

Aya is a strong woman, she is as capable as Bayek in every way, but she isnt gentle, or anyway as loving as Bayek it seems, else Khemu would not hesitate to go back to his mother on that fateful day.

[CursedPanther]

The thing is, we know little of Bayek and Aya and their personalities prior to having Khemu, particularly Aya.

What we do know is that Bayek has joined the Medjay. We can sorta imagine the kind of person who is willing to join such an order is likely ready to take up great responsibilities and care for the people of Egypt, or at least trained to do so. However a high order of patriotism probably also means that he doesn't give a damn about those outside the borders and will always give priority to his countrymen, similar to nationalism.

On the other hand, Aya grows up in Siwa away from her real parents' care who live on in Alexandria. It would be quite natural for her to be the adventurous and perhaps rebellious kind, you know the care-free archetype and are always searching for the beyond and a greater sense of purpose, but isn't taught in the inconveniences of recklessness and callousness.

People from millennia ago tend to procreate at a rather early age becuz of the considerably shorter average life span than ours, and the practice of safe sex is definitely not a widespread idea till the later 20th Century. Khemu might be what we call 'a child by accident' nowadays and she has become a parenting figure before she is ready. There is no doubt the death of the child has dealt her a heavy blow as it's her own flesh and blood after all, but during her own version of revenge for blood we can basically see that she slowly begins to realize Khemu's death may not be the worst outcome for her and kinda gives her back the freedom to her previous search of achieving greatness. This explains why she seems to keep latching onto the first opportunity that grants her a higher social status without much consideration of consequences. Aya is only in her early twenties and isn't ready to settle down again. I guess we can define this as selfishness, but doesn't necessarily representing badness.

I think the most important thing we learn outta the series is that not all Assassins branch heads are perfect leaders, and certainly won't win many popularity contests. Otherwise the conflict would've ended centuries ago with the Assassins reigning supreme. Yet one fact we can't deny is despite of the unfortunate events between Bayek and Aya their actions and decisions have ensured global spreading of the Creed's influence, instead of likely withering within Egypt a few decades later like some no name rebellion group should Aya choose to stay with Bayek.

By the way, there is this companion novel called Assassin's Creed: Desert Oath in case anyone is interested in Bayek and Aya's earlier adventures.

[EbonHawk]

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

By the way, there is this companion novel called Assassin's Creed: Desert Oath in case anyone is interested in Bayek and Aya's earlier adventures.

Thanks for mentioning that. I had forgotten about it, I have enjoyed all of Bowden's books so far. I will be getting this one, soon.

[Goilveig]

When you think about this, the main quest from Khemu's death to the final stage of the main game is between five and six years long. At first they were passionate towards each other, but they effectively were separated for around a third of their marriage by the time they finally part ways, and they grew apart.

Plus, the death of a child is a huge strain on any marriage, let alone one where the parents are consumed with revenge.

[CursedPanther]

Originally posted by Goilveig:

When you think about this, the main quest from Khemu's death to the final stage of the main game is between five and six years long. At first they were passionate towards each other, but they effectively were separated for around a third of their marriage by the time they finally part ways, and they grew apart.

Plus, the death of a child is a huge strain on any marriage, let alone one where the parents are consumed with revenge.

Good point actually. The timeline isn't particularly clear apart from the one moment the splash screen shows you and with all the side quests and explorations it's easily forgotten. Roughly the last half hour of the main story starting from the official alliance between Cleopetra and Julius Caesar to the final assassination of the Emperor himself was condensed from the span of a couple of years.

[Epero]

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

What we do know is that Bayek has joined the Medjay. We can sorta imagine the kind of person who is willing to join such an order is likely ready to take up great responsibilities and care for the people of Egypt, or at least trained to do so. However a high order of patriotism probably also means that he doesn't give a damn about those outside the borders and will always give priority to his countrymen, similar to nationalism.

I think the most important thing we learn outta the series is that not all Assassins branch heads are perfect leaders, and certainly won't win many popularity contests. Otherwise the conflict would've ended centuries ago with the Assassins reigning supreme. Yet one fact we can't deny is despite of the unfortunate events between Bayek and Aya their actions and decisions have ensured global spreading of the Creed's influence, instead of likely withering within Egypt a few decades later like some no name rebellion group should Aya choose to stay with Bayek.

Not nationalism. Simply common sense. When you are 1 person, you help where you can. And of course you help primarily in you homeland. Your countrymen are much closer to you than people abroad. Same as policemen, abuse consultant, doctor and other who help. He help all around him and she simply look for make something of herself. To be Blade of Goddess, Medjay, great Killer of oppressors and at the end Amunet leader of Hidden Ones. He is unknown Bayek, she is famous Amunet. She is career climber.

This we learned long before. Ezio was spoiled kid and have to grown to be great assassin. Anro was kick out and never taken back. Edward was pirate who just after years decided to follow some conscience. And Jacob Fray was trained to be assassin and was always reckless kid who jump ahead to every fight.
Bayek haven´t start some rebellious group. He started creed, he change creed in DLC (or make addendum to not hurt innocents), he hire first followers who joint because of him and spread to other regions (like Tahira into Sinai).
And they brotherhood survive only thanks to Templars / Order. Otherwise they will still be just rebellious groups, regardless of where they do good deeds. Killing oppressors of innocent will change in course of history and they will split, cease to exists, or became new Order for purposes of peace. But existence of eternal enemy is what motivates Brotherhood to continue their fight.

[Epero]

Originally posted by Goilveig:

When you think about this, the main quest from Khemu's death to the final stage of the main game is between five and six years long. At first they were passionate towards each other, but they effectively were separated for around a third of their marriage by the time they finally part ways, and they grew apart.

Yes it is lots of time. But I take that in consideration. Bayek always talk about how they will be again together when it all ends. And she always don´t respond, or change subject. He many times talk about his great wife how is she capable and strong, how is he proud about her, etc. She never talked about him.
But I haven´t talked just about their love (or her absence of love). She is from beginning purposeful, she always chase something that will give her feel of greatness. I don´t want to repeat myself from first post. But she looking for what she want, while never even tried reconnection with her husband; she never helped other selflessly like Bayek; she doesn´t deserve to be mentor (it have nothing to do with their marriage).

[CursedPanther]

Originally posted by Epero:

But existence of eternal enemy is what motivates Brotherhood to continue their fight.

No one wants eternal enemies. Those who have been in real life-long conflicts would know best. The story between Arno and Elise is one of many showing that there is a chance for both parties to make compromises.

The struggle between Assassin's and Templars dragging on for millennia is merely a plot device Ubisoft has invented to prolong the AC series. Try not to read too much into it.

[Epero]

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

Originally posted by Epero:

But existence of eternal enemy is what motivates Brotherhood to continue their fight.

No one wants eternal enemies. Those who have been in real life-long conflicts would know best. The story between Arno and Elise is one of many showing that there is a chance for both parties to make compromises.

The struggle between Assassin's and Templars dragging on for millennia is merely a plot device Ubisoft has invented to prolong the AC series. Try not to read too much into it.

Little off topic, but yes. In real life - I know and undrestood.
And here - it is like that. Eternal enemy ensure exitence of Brotherhood. And yes, there could be some changes. After Juno were freed, I expected maybe templars joining brotherhood to desttroy common threat, or make some new alliance, or something. But we have 5 games that bring nothing in story. Absolutely nothing. Yes, unimportant pieces, like that there is Sage reborning and that Layla use drugs and kill 5 abstergo enemies.
It was plot device that worked perfectly. Animus makes borders of memomeries - so it wasn´t stupid invisible walls - it was wall created by animus :) Also there was common plot in present day that maintain our focus and allow jumps into different eras.
We can create topic for lack of story, or no need of story from present.

[Goilveig]

Originally posted by Epero:

Originally posted by Goilveig:

When you think about this, the main quest from Khemu's death to the final stage of the main game is between five and six years long. At first they were passionate towards each other, but they effectively were separated for around a third of their marriage by the time they finally part ways, and they grew apart.

Yes it is lots of time. But I take that in consideration. Bayek always talk about how they will be again together when it all ends. And she always don´t respond, or change subject. He many times talk about his great wife how is she capable and strong, how is he proud about her, etc. She never talked about him.
But I haven´t talked just about their love (or her absence of love). She is from beginning purposeful, she always chase something that will give her feel of greatness. I don´t want to repeat myself from first post. But she looking for what she want, while never even tried reconnection with her husband; she never helped other selflessly like Bayek; she doesn´t deserve to be mentor (it have nothing to do with their marriage).

I think she's a better candidate for a Mentor than Bayek.

Bayek is, fundamentally, a "small picture" kind of guy. He witnesses a thousand injustices under Ptolemy's rule and he tries to help right each of the wrongs one at a time. Aya is a "big picture" person. She witnesses a thousand injustices under Ptolemy's rule and she works to topple him from power, hoping to bring the Order down with him. Likewise, she is the one who wants to pursue the Order across to Italy lest they cement their power over Rome, while Bayek would have waited until the Romans were at his front door before fighting them seriously. He's charismatic and likable, but he lacks the vision needed for a great leader.

And it's also untrue that Bayek recruited all of the first members. Phanos and Phoxidas were much closer to Aya.

[Epero]

Bayek did all the work. Maybe he needed to be pushed into motion. But she is big picture like management in company. Management came with idea "we need to make profit" other people make that profit and management is rewarded.
If Aya will go to Italy, without Bayek, there will be noone to stay in Egypt. Everyone have to be somewhere. He choose Egypt. Again, like with Ezio and other, he need to grow up to be man he need to be. She from beginning wanted to be somebody.
Aya is more like politician, yes maybe focusing on some bigger picture, but mostly made it for herself. While he helpe everyone.
What Vision? He decided that they need to help helpless and that they shouldn´t kill or sacrifice innocents, that they have to have brotherhood (while Aya was just pissed at Cleo) so he make all hard work and also all vision.
Phans may be closer to her, but Bayek help him with everything, while Aya played listtle doggie for Cleopatra.

[Kabob]

It's fun to read background lore and opinions. Thanks for these.

All I really know is she made Bayek cut his hair and shave, so could have her boy-toy look the way which suited her.

Once free of her, I had Bayek 'grow' it all back. Just like the real world.

[EbonHawk]

Originally posted by Kabob:

It's fun to read background lore and opinions. Thanks for these.

All I really know is she made Bayek cut his hair and shave, so could have her boy-toy look the way which suited her.

Once free of her, I had Bayek 'grow' it all back. Just like the real world.

Haha, me too! I thought I was the only one who thought "Oh no that crap's gotta go" and toggled it back on.

[V]

I know what you mean... I do think Aya loved Bayek but her pursuits for glory exceeded him in priority.

In The Hidden Ones, you can tell they still loved each other but it's just the case of...I love you but I love me more - for Aya.

[S1eepwalker]

I share the same opinions as OP and others that have expressed them much better than I possibly could with my limited proficiency in English. I will just add that I strongly disliked the character of Aya. She was an annoying element in the game. I could definitely have enjoyed the story better without her or her flaws. At least she saved Bayek's life when he was for sure dead. I guess something is better than nothing.