Greatsword vs Fatalis question.

[Hariman]

So, I'm going up against Fatalis with one of the youtube builds relying on WEX, crit rate boost, focus, and Heavy Artillery.

I'm using 3 Escadora parts and 2 of the Agitator Secret based parts, and the Raging Brachydios blade.

When I'm hitting the chest/forearms and the face, it seems like I'm doing really low damage, only 200 or 300 per hit.

Is that low damage? Do I need to get better at tenderizing? Am I missing something like Crit Boost or something?


One issue I have is that I didn't farm a bunch of decorations, so I dont' have the exact build specific decos.

Also, I forgot about melding, and thus didn't have Dash Juice for a while. Which should help when I try again later.

[Mr. September]

Start by posting the entire build so people can tell what you're missing.

[DaBa]

Also, what is exactly your goal? Do you just want to kill fatalis? Then you don't need to copy a build you found on youtube to the last skill point. You really don't have to copy any build at all, just go in with a good armor that lets you survive getting hit and the best GS you can make. As a matter of fact, whatever armor set you are copying might actually make your job harder since I bet it is 100% orientated on maximum damage, if you're just doing normal attempts and not trying to speedrun then it's a better idea to not build purely for offence, get survivability too, carting will lose you more DPS and time than not having those offensive armor skills.

Whatever you have right now is almost certainly good enough, the last remaining piece is actually execution, which copying a build doesn't help with at all I'm afraid!

[Hariman]

My current goal is execution/survival for a solo hunt, as I always finish the monster solo before going into multiplayer. (Barring multiplayer tuned monsters like Ancient Leshen, Safi, Kulve, and Behemoth.)

Build:

Lightbreak Blade.
Focus Charm 2.

Brachydium Helm B
Escadora Soul B
Escadora Armguards B
Escadora Might B
Brachydium Greaves B

Mantles are alternatively Ghillie, Fireproof, and Rocksteady.

Skills:
Critical Eye 7
Attack Boost 6
Weakness Exploit 3
Health Boost 3
Fire Resistence 3
Dragon Resistance 3
Focus 3
Partbreaker 2 (3 with specific mantles.)
Heavy Artillery 2 (for cannon opening/arena weapons.)
Constitution 2 (Level 4 decorations have other skills wanted also have Constitution.)
Critical Boost 1
Critical Draw 1
Resentment 1
Evade Window 1 (I think this is also a decoration based.)
Divine Blessing 1

My current biggest problem is execution, as I haven't mastered positioning/timing to keep doing damage.

I've started getting to the second phase, but I've run out of lives by about 22 minutes.

I've also started bringing along the Meowlotov Cocktail instead of the Vigorwasp, for more damage. Also because going for heals gets me carted, and the revive isn't helping survival enough to be worth it.

[Hariman]

Originally posted by Mr. September:

Start by posting the entire build so people can tell what you're missing.

Originally posted by DaBa:

Also, what is exactly your goal? Do you just want to kill fatalis? Then you don't need to copy a build you found on youtube to the last skill point. You really don't have to copy any build at all, just go in with a good armor that lets you survive getting hit and the best GS you can make. As a matter of fact, whatever armor set you are copying might actually make your job harder since I bet it is 100% orientated on maximum damage, if you're just doing normal attempts and not trying to speedrun then it's a better idea to not build purely for offence, get survivability too, carting will lose you more DPS and time than not having those offensive armor skills.

Whatever you have right now is almost certainly good enough, the last remaining piece is actually execution, which copying a build doesn't help with at all I'm afraid!

Thank you for the replies/help.

My build is posted above, along with the primary goals.

[Mr. September]

Let's see... Overall, doesn't look half-bad. I'm not sure anymore, but I think I was using Alatreon's weapons when fighting Fatalis for the first time, so you can try that and see if it does better. I had a similar build that had 3p Alatreon and (probably) 2 pieces of Safi β or Kulve γ.

While it's a lot of work, plug your build into this build maker (https://neftalimich.github.io/mhworld-builder/) and see if you hit 95% or 100% Affinity. If it's more than 100%, tone down the Critical Eye so you don't waste decoration slots.

Try getting Critical Boost 3, as that makes a big difference. Since this build is for Fatalis, try to get Divine Blessing 3. It will save your ass more than you can guess. You'll want to use Divine Blessing 5 when you eventually get the Fatalis armor set, since it's one of the viable ways to survive high damage moves... though it's a bit of a gamble.

Constitution is basically a skill made for Dual Blades and Bow, so you can safely drop that for something else that comes with a dual-deco. Anything that has Evade Window on it instead of that will do better. Only one level of Evade Window won't really make a noticeable difference, anyway.

Drop Resentment and Critical Draw if possible. You won't want to have ANY red HP when fighting Fatalis, and Critical Draw is useless if you achieve 95%+ Affinity (which should be your first priority alongside Critical Boost 3 anyway).

Get Agitator, as many as you can fit. It should be among your first priority for damage and Affinity, even before Attack Boost. The usual go-to is to use the Agitator Charm for 5 entire levels of it, and adding the other 2 by decorations (level 7 requires the Secret, though).

[Hariman]

Originally posted by Mr. September:

Let's see... Overall, doesn't look half-bad. I'm not sure anymore, but I think I was using Alatreon's weapons when fighting Fatalis for the first time, so you can try that and see if it does better. I had a similar build that had 3p Alatreon and (probably) 2 pieces of Safi β or Kulve γ.

While it's a lot of work, plug your build into this build maker (https://neftalimich.github.io/mhworld-builder/) and see if you hit 95% or 100% Affinity. If it's more than 100%, tone down the Critical Eye so you don't waste decoration slots.

Try getting Critical Boost 3, as that makes a big difference. Since this build is for Fatalis, try to get Divine Blessing 3. It will save your ass more than you can guess. You'll want to use Divine Blessing 5 when you eventually get the Fatalis armor set, since it's one of the viable ways to survive high damage moves... though it's a bit of a gamble.

Constitution is basically a skill made for Dual Blades and Bow, so you can safely drop that for something else that comes with a dual-deco. Anything that has Evade Window on it instead of that will do better. Only one level of Evade Window won't really make a noticeable difference, anyway.

Drop Resentment and Critical Draw if possible. You won't want to have ANY red HP when fighting Fatalis, and Critical Draw is useless if you achieve 95%+ Affinity (which should be your first priority alongside Critical Boost 3 anyway).

Get Agitator, as many as you can fit. It should be among your first priority for damage and Affinity, even before Attack Boost. The usual go-to is to use the Agitator Charm for 5 entire levels of it, and adding the other 2 by decorations (level 7 requires the Secret, though).

>.> I'm going to have to do a decent chunk of farming to change equipment, but it's probably worth the extra time and the survivability it will bring.

I'll start working on adjusting the build tonight, and see what I can do with it.


One issue I have is that I don't have a huge variety of decorations, so some of the only options I have are dual decos.

But if I'm going to be farming anyway, I might be able to get some more usable ones, or upgrade materials for the charm.


EDIT: one issue I've had is keeping the clutch claw tenderization on Fatalis, because he's just so tricky to fight, and sometimes doesn't do the safe attacks.

[Hariman]

Originally posted by Mr. September:

snipped for space

I just got to phase 3 for the first time, so the adjustments to add in Divine Protection and other skills are definitely paying off.

I might make a few more adjustments, and I'm going to keep trying.

>.> Also, mainlining Dash Juice is apparently mandatory for this fight. That's the only other big change I've made.

Now it's just getting consistent enough to dodge/survive instead of carting every 4 to 5 minutes.

[Hariman]

Well, I got that fat ***** to the point where the Dragonator was ready, but I didn't break his face and when I tried to wait for the dragonator, he activated "Female of Canine Persuasion" mode and just kept firing his explosive fireball until I carted and ran out of time.

The really horrible part is that I now need to farm Gourmet Tickets to eat for the Special Assignment.

And the most annoying part goes to the hilarious lack of slinger ammunition drops (A ton of dragon pods drop! My wazoo.) and the seemingly endless "Yeah you're losing at least 5 minutes to this BS" loop of attacks that keep you out of good attack positions then kill you anyway because it gets impossible to dodge.

[Mr. September]

His AI is set to spam ranged attacks when you're on the Dragonator. He's actually a clever dragon, and doesn't fall for the trap easily.

Keep practicing, and you'll manage to get him. He's arguably one of the hardest fights in the entire game, so if you got to phase 3 by yourself, you're already above average. Then again... We also have AT Velkhana. You'll have a field day with that one for sure once you're done with Fatalis.

I recommend NOT using the cannons at the very start. Even if you're not all that great, it's a DPS loss and you also waste part of a precious opening (by the time you jump down, part of the stun is already gone). You can use the knockdown in the start of phase 2 to hit his head with the auto ballista and/or your own attacks instead. His threshold for "weapon knockdown" increases as far as I'm aware, so getting a second knockdown (outside of Dragonator, which always knocks him down) is more difficult.

I recommend using at least one of the binders in phase 3, especially right at the start. Grab one that appears in the start of phase 2 and keep it. Once you get to phase 3, run straight to the ballista on your right (the one that is on your right when you get out of the gate). Dodge the roar and let him turn to you, then shoot the binder. There is a small slope right below that ballista (a part of the ground juts out), which will align with his head and let you reach it easier. If done right, you might break his head at the start of phase 3, given that you were close to begin with.

Once you get to the point when the Dragonator is ready, he's pretty much almost dead. He usually has a few thousand or few hundred HP left if he gets hit by the thing, so play safe but don't waste time.

[Hariman]

Originally posted by Mr. September:

His AI is set to spam ranged attacks when you're on the Dragonator. He's actually a clever dragon, and doesn't fall for the trap easily.

Keep practicing, and you'll manage to get him. He's arguably one of the hardest fights in the entire game, so if you got to phase 3 by yourself, you're already above average. Then again... We also have AT Velkhana. You'll have a field day with that one for sure once you're done with Fatalis.

I recommend NOT using the cannons at the very start. Even if you're not all that great, it's a DPS loss and you also waste part of a precious opening (by the time you jump down, part of the stun is already gone). You can use the knockdown in the start of phase 2 to hit his head with the auto ballista and/or your own attacks instead. His threshold for "weapon knockdown" increases as far as I'm aware, so getting a second knockdown (outside of Dragonator, which always knocks him down) is more difficult.

I recommend using at least one of the binders in phase 3, especially right at the start. Grab one that appears in the start of phase 2 and keep it. Once you get to phase 3, run straight to the ballista on your right (the one that is on your right when you get out of the gate). Dodge the roar and let him turn to you, then shoot the binder. There is a small slope right below that ballista (a part of the ground juts out), which will align with his head and let you reach it easier. If done right, you might break his head at the start of phase 3, given that you were close to begin with.

Once you get to the point when the Dragonator is ready, he's pretty much almost dead. He usually has a few thousand or few hundred HP left if he gets hit by the thing, so play safe but don't waste time.

Hmm. I'll try some runs without the Cannon Opening later tonight.

Honestly, yeah. The cannon opening seems iffy, as it takes at least a minute or two to set up right. I usually immediately tenderize the face and chest, but I might be able to do that anyway.

I think I'm also going to try the suggested Alatreon Revolution Greatsword for the MUCH longer purple sharpness and elderseal/dragon damage.


I've got to do a Guiding Lands tour for Steamworks Fuel first though, for Gourmet Tickets.

Hopefully I actually GET gourmet tickets from the Steamworks this time, but that will also give me more armor spheres to try different builds too.


EDIT: I'm tempted to set up multiple other sets of mostly the same armor, but with different mantles so I can rotate between four mantles for a little extra edge, instead of just the Fireproof/Rocksteady Mantle.

[MarcoPants]

If you want too many gourmet tickets than you know what to do with, farm the event quest "A Farewell to Zinogre" for tons of steamworks fuel and make sure to pick up the shinies in that quest. Much more efficient to run this quest than go to the grinding lands for fuel

[Hariman]

Originally posted by MarcoPants:

If you want too many gourmet tickets than you know what to do with, farm the event quest "A Farewell to Zinogre" for tons of steamworks fuel and make sure to pick up the shinies in that quest. Much more efficient to run this quest than go to the grinding lands for fuel

Ooh! I did not know about that quest.

Thank you.

[DoEFotGS]

Originally posted by Mr. September:

I recommend NOT using the cannons at the very start. Even if you're not all that great, it's a DPS loss and you also waste part of a precious opening (by the time you jump down, part of the stun is already gone).

He use GS - he can perform TCS in that opening at begining and this is huge damage to head. Also he can follow this up by doing wallbang immidiatly after Fatalis recovered from knock down. Each wallbang is 1000+ damage to head. Fatalis also is exeption and his head recieve full damage from wallbangs regardless of tenderize.

Originally posted by Mr. September:

Lbut I think I was using Alatreon's weapons when fighting Fatalis for the first time, so you can try that and see if it does better.

It will better because of huge purple sharpness bar compared to any other options before Fatalis GS itself.

Originally posted by Hariman:

I usually immediately tenderize the face and chest, but I might be able to do that anyway.

Any of Fatalis breathing move is absolutely safe to perform tenderize to head or chest. But don't confuse it with spitting moves.

Originally posted by Mr. September:

His AI is set to spam ranged attacks when you're on the Dragonator. He's actually a clever dragon, and doesn't fall for the trap easily.

He not always doing this and after maybe 30 seconds he start charge to you anyway.

Originally posted by Mr. September:

I recommend using at least one of the binders in phase 3, especially right at the start. Grab one that appears in the start of phase 2 and keep it. Once you get to phase 3, run straight to the ballista on your right (the one that is on your right when you get out of the gate). Dodge the roar and let him turn to you, then shoot the binder. There is a small slope right below that ballista (a part of the ground juts out), which will align with his head and let you reach it easier. If done right, you might break his head at the start of phase 3, given that you were close to begin with.

Yes, it's literally a free TCS :'D
Same for second phase but positioning is harder.

For roaming ballista - you can almost safely use it from smoke bomb especially if you has stealth skill.

Also if Fatalis spend too much time doing something awful - you can use farcaster. If no one of hunter present on the arena - Fatalis forced to stand in center and change his stance to two legged. Sometimes is useful.

Originally posted by Mr. September:

Once you get to the point when the Dragonator is ready, he's pretty much almost dead.

Dragonator start his cooldown at phase 3. It's not about damage, it's about time. Sometimes Fatalis killed before dragonator become available, but in our case I think he has plenty of HP left.

Roaming ballista start cooldown after all bolts was shooted. So don't forget shoot them all and you, most of the time, can use ballista again that means huge damage at the end.

Both cooldowns is 10 minutes.

https://youtu.be/KSjicyF_1j4
0:28 - 2:04 - example of cannon opener with barrel bombs and wallbang follow up.
6:25 - 6:54 - grab binder and example of using roaming ballista from smokes.
7:40 - 8:00 - binder use at phase 2.
15:35 - 15:58 - binder use at phase 3.

[Hariman]

Originally posted by DoEFotGS:

Originally posted by Mr. September:

I recommend NOT using the cannons at the very start. Even if you're not all that great, it's a DPS loss and you also waste part of a precious opening (by the time you jump down, part of the stun is already gone).

He use GS - he can perform TCS in that opening at begining and this is huge damage to head. Also he can follow this up by doing wallbang immidiatly after Fatalis recovered from knock down. Each wallbang is 1000+ damage to head. Fatalis also is exeption and his head recieve full damage from wallbangs regardless of tenderize.

Originally posted by Mr. September:

Lbut I think I was using Alatreon's weapons when fighting Fatalis for the first time, so you can try that and see if it does better.

It will better because of huge purple sharpness bar compared to any other options before Fatalis GS itself.

Originally posted by Hariman:

I usually immediately tenderize the face and chest, but I might be able to do that anyway.

Any of Fatalis breathing move is absolutely safe to perform tenderize to head or chest. But don't confuse it with spitting moves.

Originally posted by Mr. September:

His AI is set to spam ranged attacks when you're on the Dragonator. He's actually a clever dragon, and doesn't fall for the trap easily.

He not always doing this and after maybe 30 seconds he start charge to you anyway.

Originally posted by Mr. September:

I recommend using at least one of the binders in phase 3, especially right at the start. Grab one that appears in the start of phase 2 and keep it. Once you get to phase 3, run straight to the ballista on your right (the one that is on your right when you get out of the gate). Dodge the roar and let him turn to you, then shoot the binder. There is a small slope right below that ballista (a part of the ground juts out), which will align with his head and let you reach it easier. If done right, you might break his head at the start of phase 3, given that you were close to begin with.

Yes, it's literally a free TCS :'D
Same for second phase but positioning is harder.

For roaming ballista - you can almost safely use it from smoke bomb especially if you has stealth skill.

Also if Fatalis spend too much time doing something awful - you can use farcaster. If no one of hunter present on the arena - Fatalis forced to stand in center and change his stance to two legged. Sometimes is useful.

Originally posted by Mr. September:

Once you get to the point when the Dragonator is ready, he's pretty much almost dead.

Dragonator start his cooldown at phase 3. It's not about damage, it's about time. Sometimes Fatalis killed before dragonator become available, but in our case I think he has plenty of HP left.

Roaming ballista start cooldown after all bolts was shooted. So don't forget shoot them all and you, most of the time, can use ballista again that means huge damage at the end.

Both cooldowns is 10 minutes.

https://youtu.be/KSjicyF_1j4
0:28 - 2:04 - example of cannon opener with barrel bombs and wallbang follow up.
6:25 - 6:54 - grab binder and example of using roaming ballista from smokes.
7:40 - 8:00 - binder use at phase 2.
15:35 - 15:58 - binder use at phase 3.

Noted! I'll work this advice into future attempts.


Last night was farming Zinogre for coal and getting more Gourmet Vouchers from the Steamworks, and relaxing with some regular hunts to remind me of why I enjoyed the game so much.

>.> Not gonna lie, I need to FIND the one shot binders and actually use them.

[Mr. September]

Originally posted by Hariman:

>.> Not gonna lie, I need to FIND the one shot binders and actually use them.

First one is right near the "shield" you have to go behind when getting to Phase 2.

The other should be near the ballista that is close to the slope I mentioned. It's at your right-hand side when you get out of the gate, after Phase 2 ends.