Justify this game's melee system to me

[afrodude11243]

I've seen a good deal of people complaining about the awkward melee controls of this game, and many more rick & morty copypasta-tier responses about how they should just git gud. So for reference:

I've fooled around in training for about 2 hours or so, used every weapon, done a few missions, game's actually pretty easy so far, just feels INSANELY clunky. No fight feels rewarding, I always feel like there's no way what I'm doing is the way I'm supposed to play.

I don't care if past games were worse.

I don't care if you're used to it because you're a L33T MH veteran.

With that said... the hell is with the melee in this game? Attacks are Dark Souls-style, where you're committed to your actions and have to be sure about executing them, but the movement and animations are like Devil May Cry, where your attacks send you flying around whichever way your character model happens to be facing because in that style of game you can spin and counter and dodge and combo on the fly like a madman.

The lock-on doesn't actually keep your character oriented towards the target and there's no strafing, which means the ONLY WAY to aim a melee attack is with movement. Do I have that right?

That means that any attack that isn't a giant sweeping thing or against a giant, slow target essentially requires me to fight in melee like a friggin WWII fighter plane, veering off after every attack so I can loop around and have the distance needed to re-orient myself towards the target and actually hit remotely in the direction I intend.

So far enemies are obligingly slow enough for me to not have any issues defeating them, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ does every fight feel awkward, and I can't see any good reason for this control scheme in any game released past the year 2005. I want to hit in the direction of the camera far, far more often than I want to hit something half-seen to the side or behind me. Why on earth would they make the most common scenario so much more difficult to work with than the far more situational one?

Committed attacks work in Dark Souls even without lock-on because the animations in that game are simple, clear, and don't send you flying forward, backward, and into the air (and correct me if I'm wrong, but you can still control melee attacks after execution to a small degree, can you not?).

In Dragon's Dogma, another 3rd person ARPG with frequent fights against large enemies where the location of your attack is important, your attacks could be moved after execution and during charge-up, and were simple and fluid enough so that aiming at the part of the monster you want to hit doesn't feel awful, even if it is sometimes difficult. In MH I don't know why the katana has any combo after the second Y attack because 90% of the time my character has shoved right through the enemy at that point and is attacking the air and there's nothing I can do about it but veer off for another attack run, hit once or twice, and repeat.

So is melee combat supposed to work like a flight simulator or am I just not getting something? There's a lot about the mechanics I really like; relatively simple combos with movement modifiers so combat is more about choosing the right action rather than combo memorization, each weapon class is very unique with clear pros/cons, sharpening/ hunger mechanics/monster info/ a bunch of other little things add up to really make you feel like a legit hunter going out into the wild to take down some worthy prey... but there's this melee movement straight outta the PS1 era doing its best to keep me unmotivated from getting to all that. I can punch goombas in mario64 far more naturally than I can wield a dedicated melee weapon in MHW, and that doesn't seem right at all.

So can someone please justify to me why this melee system is worth learning in the age where bad dark souls knock-offs implement the same kind of system way more naturally? Yeah I could just use ranged weapons, but call me an optimist, I don't want to just accept that the majority of weapon types in this game are rendered worthless by one baffling design decision. Clearly their must be SOMETHING to this melee system worth such an outdated control scheme, right? Enlighten me.

EDIT: I really hope this game is more impressive than the community because good lord did I get exactly the self-aggrandizing responses I've seen everywhere else.

Not a single one of you addressed a single issue I brought up, you instead chose to go off on a tirade about how deep and complex MH is (without supporting that assertion at all) and how I just don't understand how great it is.

Let's narrow it down: is there no way to aim an initial melee attack beyond awkwardly attempting to face your character model towards your target, independent of the camera? Please answer this and only this, yes or no answers only, thank you.

[ggAkatsukiP]

Play street fighter, watch people complain about netcode and eat popcorn.

[Washing Machine]

I mean, Dark Souls was pretty clunky to control until you get used to it too?

If you haven't played much yet, you probably just aren't used to it yet, nothing much more to it.

If you don't like having to commit to your actions, just use Dual Blades and never worry about a thing ever again.

[StarExile]

Play Fortnite.

[Flip_Light]

Originally posted by afrodude11243:

I've seen a good deal of people complaining about the awkward melee controls of this game, and many more rick & morty copypasta-tier responses about how they should just git gud. So for reference:

I've fooled around in training for about 2 hours or so, used every weapon, done a few missions, game's actually pretty easy so far, just feels INSANELY clunky. No fight feels rewarding, I always feel like there's no way what I'm doing is the way I'm supposed to play.

I don't care if past games were worse.

I don't care if you're used to it because you're a L33T MH veteran.

With that said... the hell is with the melee in this game? Attacks are Dark Souls-style, where you're committed to your actions and have to be sure about executing them, but the movement and animations are like Devil May Cry, where your attacks send you flying around whichever way your character model happens to be facing because in that style of game you can spin and counter and dodge and combo on the fly like a madman.

The lock-on doesn't actually keep your character oriented towards the target and there's no strafing, which means the ONLY WAY to aim a melee attack is with movement. Do I have that right?

That means that any attack that isn't a giant sweeping thing or against a giant, slow target essentially requires me to fight in melee like a friggin WWII fighter plane, veering off after every attack so I can loop around and have the distance needed to re-orient myself towards the target and actually hit remotely in the direction I intend.

So far enemies are obligingly slow enough for me to not have any issues defeating them, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ does every fight feel awkward, and I can't see any good reason for this control scheme in any game released past the year 2005. I want to hit in the direction of the camera far, far more often than I want to hit something half-seen to the side or behind me. Why on earth would they make the most common scenario so much more difficult to work with than the far more situational one?

Committed attacks work in Dark Souls even without lock-on because the animations in that game are simple, clear, and don't send you flying forward, backward, and into the air (and correct me if I'm wrong, but you can still control melee attacks after execution to a small degree, can you not?).

In Dragon's Dogma, another 3rd person ARPG with frequent fights against large enemies where the location of your attack is important, your attacks could be moved after execution and during charge-up, and were simple and fluid enough so that aiming at the part of the monster you want to hit doesn't feel awful, even if it is sometimes difficult. In MH I don't know why the katana has any combo after the second Y attack because 90% of the time my character has shoved right through the enemy at that point and is attacking the air and there's nothing I can do about it but veer off for another attack run, hit once or twice, and repeat.

So is melee combat supposed to work like a flight simulator or am I just not getting something? There's a lot about the mechanics I really like; relatively simple combos with movement modifiers so combat is more about choosing the right action rather than combo memorization, each weapon class is very unique with clear pros/cons, sharpening/ hunger mechanics/monster info/ a bunch of other little things add up to really make you feel like a legit hunter going out into the wild to take down some worthy prey... but there's this melee movement straight outta the PS1 era doing its best to keep me unmotivated from getting to all that. I can punch goombas in mario64 far more naturally than I can wield a dedicated melee weapon in MHW, and that doesn't seem right at all.

So can someone please justify to me why this melee system is worth learning in the age where bad dark souls knock-offs implement the same kind of system way more naturally? Yeah I could just use ranged weapons, but call me an optimist, I don't want to just accept that the majority of weapon types in this game are rendered worthless by one baffling design decision. Clearly their must be SOMETHING to this melee system worth such an outdated control scheme, right? Enlighten me.

It sounds to me like you really just don't understand the combat. If you actually think dark souls has a better melee system then uh...yeah, no. That's very close to objectively untrue being as MH is closer to a "fighting game" meaning it has actual combos and dozens of ways to use each weapon over parry, block, stab, backstab, light and heavy.

Dragons dogma has "auto lock-on" which is why even with the positioning required the game feels easier to play. Monster hunter doesn't have that, and complaining the game feels clunky because it's missing is kinda something most players upon first entering the series deal with for their first like 3-4 hunts. Just fyi they're made by the same studio.

"Committed attacks work in Dark Souls even without lock-on because they're clear" (paraphrasing)

No, it's the exact same thing as in monster hunter. If you want to do a melee attack, you have to physically turn your character in the direction and do the attack. It's literally the exact same system, monster hunter is just more difficult to get used to be cause there are 14 completely unique weapons.

This really is just a matter of "Git gud" as unhelpful as that is. You have to keep playing until the system clicks with you if you're seriously struggling with it that much, and you really shouldn't be repositioning your body after EVERY hit unless you have no idea wtf you're doing. Some of the weapons even have attacks that change the direction you're facing (sword and shield) while simply evading to one side can reposition you for other weapons.

"I want to hit in the direction of the camera..."

I can't think of any action game where you "hit in the direction of the camera" lmfao. That's just not a thing that exists. Your CHARACTER'S turning/movement is what decides where you're hitting...dd is the same way, and I'm damn near certain souls is too.

Again, this really is just a "git gud" situation unfortunately. I was playing these games back when I was 12 and never had issues figuring out how to position myself, so you really should be able to do the same.

[~KeNnEtH~]

I have played Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma and Monster Hunter.

Simply put, Monster Hunter has a deeper combat system.

Taking Dark Souls for example, at its fundamentals, combat is just light/fast, heavy/slow and dodge. This is really the same for all weapons albeit with slight differences. In essence, there is really just 1 playstyle.

Monster Hunter however has 14 different playstyles. Playstyles not weapons (even though they are in the form of different weapons). Weapons can use the same buttons but each strike made can be totally different.

Think of it as learning a martial art.

In Dark Souls, what's effectively happening is you are learning muay thai and all you are doing is changing the gloves.

In Monster Hunter, each weapon is a different style of martial art with its own mechanics, stances and "dodge" options.

It feels clunky because you are not used to that weapon.

The difference in learning curve is evident in the fact that someone who plays a certain weapon solely in Monster Hunter and masters it will still have a hard time learning/mastering another weapon that they never touched before but for other games, a lot of what 1 weapon "teaches" is directly transferable because light, light, heavy for 1 weapon is still light, light, heavy in another albeit with some slight visual differences.

Regarding the lack of lock on, there is a lock on but it is highly advisable not to have it on. Unlikely the other games, you don't have to be directly facing the monster to hit it. This is where knowledge of the weapon moveset comes into play. As long as you can see the weapon touching the monster, it will hit it even if you are facing a totally different direction.

[mewlynx]

This game is not Devil May Cry, Dark Souls, or Dragon's Dogma. It's Monster Hunter and it has its own combat style, get used to it or don't play it.

[SlymR]

If you want some "serious" advice, disable lock on, and get the ♥♥♥♥ over the fact it controls differently to Dark Souls.

[Greb]

There's no tracking. That's a win from me almost immediately. There are no monsters here that magically turn on a corkscrew to hit you during their attacks, every attack has weight and must be made with correct positioning in mind, you can't just R1 R1 R1 your way to victory.

Screw Dark Souls and its tracking, that has always been an awful design mechanic in all Souls games, even the first game which was the only one with decent weighty combat. Invincibility frames and tracking, it's a joke to even consider that melee combat lol.

[Sekaro]

Despite everyone saying to disable lock on, I don't believe u should disable it entirely. Lock-on in this game isn't supposed to be used in the traditional sense. It's merely a tool to quickly reposition the camera towards the monster if u manage to lose track of it on the screen. U can configure this in the settings.

[𝓇𝒾𝓃𝒶𝒶𝒶𝒶𝒶]

There's nothing wrong with the combat system, you're just still a newbie so things feel clunky but they aren't, you're probably in low rank so monsters are quite simple. Have you watched a tutorial on how to use x weapon? The combat system is quite deep as each weapon is unique and has their own "good" combos.

[ZexxCrine]

Wish I could help you. I can’t really have a discussion or debate about your points because I flat out don’t see what you see. I’ve even gone to bat for the idea that monster hunter world is needlessly clunky even with all of the changes that make it infinitely less clunky than its predecessors. I have argued that the meticulous nature of your committed attacks is hard to get used to before everything clicks, but never have I ever heard or even thought about the argument that everything flings you all over uncontrollably. I can’t think of a single weapon that just whips you in random directions with no control. So I have no idea how to agree or disagree with you on an issue that sounds like it’s coming from a different game. I’d love to help, but aside from physically seeing your issue, I am stumped at how to do that.

[Valentine (Lunaticus)]

Originally posted by afrodude11243:

Let's narrow it down: is there no way to aim an initial melee attack beyond awkwardly attempting to face your character model towards your target, independent of the camera? Please answer this and only this, yes or no answers only, thank you.

Are you asking if there's a way for your character to automatically target the monster when you attack? Of course not.

[ᔑᓭ∴ᔑリ⊣]

what? OP you want this to be an mmo or something?

[warrickbartley]

i think the custom item wheel thing is a joke, half the time i click on something it wont work

[lexilogo]

Originally posted by afrodude11243:

Let's narrow it down: is there no way to aim an initial melee attack beyond awkwardly attempting to face your character model towards your target, independent of the camera? Please answer this and only this, yes or no answers only, thank you.

Yes. And, for the record, while you shouldn't be surprised a negatively-toned thread (or really any thread criticising a game) met with bad responses on a Steam forum, it of course shouldn't happen in general.

Of course, if you're holding forward your character will be facing towards the camera anyway, so it's honestly kind of a moot point for initial attacks only- And there are several attacks that can be aimed to an extent to correct problems.

The main reason why this is the case is blah blah positioning blah blah. In the case of the Long Sword for example, instead of assuming your combos are missing because you're at fault, you blame the game. The key is in the word Long sword of course, if you press up straight to a monster you will likely start missing, but if you keep yourself at a good distance you'll hit every time, and after you finish a Spirit Roundslash you're actually supposed to have hit the monster and passed by it, to reposition yourself for the next combo string. (or, for Iceborne owners, transitioning into a Special Sheath is possible if you want to try and do something else)

Long Sword is actually one of the most popular weapons in the series as a whole (I believe it's ~20% of the playerbase uses it) and is certainly not as useless as you assume.

Strafing isn't possible, but rolling (or depending on the weapon, "hopping") to reposition without changing player orientation is and for many weapons pretty vital.


You bring up Mario 64 as a deprecating analogy, but Mario 64 actually functions off the exact same basic principle. You need to position Mario correctly in a pretty narrow window around an enemy for the attack to actually land. This makes the flow of most of the game about thinking about where Mario is in relation to enemies/obstacles and altering that when needed.

It's different from DMC or Dark Souls where it's mostly about reacting to what your enemies are doing in the moment. Monster Hunter still has tells, and always has, but especially in the older games it's more about trying to predict what a monster WILL do than what a monster IS doing, and when you get that prediction wrong and need to walk off briefly and find a new opening, that's not the game being clunky for clunky's sake (Remember DMC and Dragon's Dogma are both also made by Capcom!) but the game giving a minor punishment for not being familiar enough with the combat yet.


Honestly if I had a character as fluidly as in a Dark Souls game in Monster Hunter IMO it would suck a lot of the fun out of the series, at least as its currently designed. Mastering this game over a LOT of time has been a really satisfying experience with a wide spectrum of difficulty between monsters, and that would IMO be ruined with the ability to immediately transition back into more attacks on a dime like a Dark Souls character can after rolling.