Fatalis, End Game Reflections, Can we talk about the elitism?

[<//𝖅𝖊𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖙𝖙/]

I'm as far as Fatalis, after defeating him I have about 98% of the game complete, I've done most of it solo and whatever I've done with other players wasn't so I could get carried it was because I wanted to play with others.

I have played Monster Hunter since it came out on Playstation 2, the community for this game aren't the worst out there but it's by far one of the worst developments in the series.

I absolutely loved this game from start to finish but it's stained by the elitist aspect of it's community, like cool there's meta builds but there are so many other builds that offer so many difference variations in play style.

A perfect example is AT Vaal armour, it's easily one of the sickest looking armour in the game but servers no purpose as the skills aren't meta.

Kulve Tharoth really highlighted this issue, I've seen people get kicked out of sessions for not having an exact build that was showed all over Youtube, surely I'm not the only one that would like to see this issue removed from later Monster Hunter Games?

Like once you've gotten Fatalis armour, there's no reason to use any other (Which is fine because I can't see myself playing MHW too long after beating Fatalis anyways) I'd really like to see future games have it so, there's a wide range of end game outcomes to stop the elitism, like maybe a cap on damage output so say all AT variations, damage output is the same but they offer different play-styles just some thoughts after getting to this point in the game...

[Loxly]

How can you tell someone get kicked from a session but not from disconnecting? the only time i've ever get kicked from a session is when i was afk in kulve taroth session for too long that the owner decided to kick me cuz someone who actually played could use the lobby slot instead of me. 1200+ hrs in playing with random 90% of the time and people barely talk or use chat, let alone being super elitist tryna kick everybody who doesn't have meta build. To be completely honest with you, i can't relate at all.

[Xilo The Odd]

no lets not talk about the elitism. lets just kindly ask it to leave the room and seek more of its own kind. like i did last night when in another group some scrub was saying everyone elses damage in his group was low and he was doing all the work.

they weren't even in the event quest, told em to take that eliteism elsewhere and when he argued i simply kicked him from room.

[Faust Wither]

Originally posted by Xilo The Odd:

no lets not talk about the elitism. lets just kindly ask it to leave the room and seek more of its own kind. like i did last night when in another group some scrub was saying everyone elses damage in his group was low and he was doing all the work.

they weren't even in the event quest, told em to take that eliteism elsewhere and when he argued i simply kicked him from room.

that an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lol, and i'm here try help people farming fatalis by SOS after phase 2, never get mad if they ware make quest fail.

[mewlynx]

You might have all this experience with the MH series, but nobody knows that. Somr people see an unoptimized build and 1. assume that you don't know what you're doing and 2. you won't be contributing that much to the hunt and kick you. I don't agree with it, but its not difficult to understand given how easily people can get carried through content in this game. That being said, I only personally witnessed this behavior once when I joined a ATKT session with my HH build still equipped and got kicked before I could change loadouts. Most people usually just let people do whatever they want as long as they aren't carting left and right and doing some damage.

Also, damage caps would take a ton of control away from the player and homogonize builds. There are better ways to encourage build variety.

[Xilo The Odd]

Originally posted by maelynx:

You might have all this experience with the MH series, but nobody knows that. Somr people see an unoptimized build and 1. assume that you don't know what you're doing and 2. you won't be contributing that much to the hunt and kick you. I don't agree with it, but its not difficult to understand given how easily people can get carried through content in this game. That being said, I only personally witnessed this behavior once when I joined a ATKT session with my HH build still equipped and got kicked before I could change loadouts. Most people usually just let people do whatever they want as long as they aren't carting left and right and doing some damage.

Also, damage caps would take a ton of control away from the player and homogonize builds. There are better ways to encourage build variety.

lol we actually had a Bug glaive user that was in one of those Only bug meme builds. my group said "♥♥♥♥ it, lets give it a shot and see if its effective" dude knew his stuff about the fight so he did reasonably well. i myself nor anyone in my group had a damage meter but the important thing was he kept his bug hitting the head and when he went into artillery weapons or was on his way to, put it on auto pilot to make some clouds.

then we got a hammer guy that could consistently keep the phase 1 going exactly as youtube videos described, he was great, even he died on occasion.

[Tregrenos]

Originally posted by xXBr$$zyXx:

Like once you've gotten Fatalis armour, there's no reason to use any other (Which is fine because I can't see myself playing MHW too long after beating Fatalis anyways) I'd really like to see future games have it so, there's a wide range of end game outcomes to stop the elitism, like maybe a cap on damage output so say all AT variations, damage output is the same but they offer different play-styles just some thoughts after getting to this point in the game...

I've actually been having a hard time trying to justify having Fatalis armor as it honestly doesn't do much for me personally. I'm struggling to fit in all the skills my preferred builds had, so I'll assume it's only really useful for those builds who might possibly have room for 2 skill secrets they otherwise couldn't obtain.

It's an armor that's great for an all DPS build, but once you've beaten the god of monsters what more is there to do other than carry lowbies or post memish speedrun videos? The armor, at this point, doesn't really give you anything you didn't already have. The 4 piece bonus saves you from using one of the hundreds of vouchers you probably have and makes it so you're only really eating for AUL. The fact it persists through faints is pretty much moot given you really shouldn't be fainting much to anything given you had to grind Fatalis to obtain this armor.

[Traveler]

Community Toxicity scales with size. That's why the MH community got worse with World. I also have played MH since the first one on PS2, and I don't think I've ever cared so much about "meta" armor sets. The entire idea of a "Meta" in Monster Hunter has always seemed ridiculous. I got my way through every game soloing mostly just using full sets because it looked cool without issues. Everyone takes gaming so much more seriously now and feel like they have to be using the BEST OF THE BEST everything in order to win.

It's kind of sad honestly. Just have fun.

[<//𝖅𝖊𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖙𝖙/]

Originally posted by Tregrenos:

Originally posted by xXBr$$zyXx:

Like once you've gotten Fatalis armour, there's no reason to use any other (Which is fine because I can't see myself playing MHW too long after beating Fatalis anyways) I'd really like to see future games have it so, there's a wide range of end game outcomes to stop the elitism, like maybe a cap on damage output so say all AT variations, damage output is the same but they offer different play-styles just some thoughts after getting to this point in the game...

I've actually been having a hard time trying to justify having Fatalis armor as it honestly doesn't do much for me personally. I'm struggling to fit in all the skills my preferred builds had, so I'll assume it's only really useful for those builds who might possibly have room for 2 skill secrets they otherwise couldn't obtain.

It's an armor that's great for an all DPS build, but once you've beaten the god of monsters what more is there to do other than carry lowbies or post memish speedrun videos? The armor, at this point, doesn't really give you anything you didn't already have. The 4 piece bonus saves you from using one of the hundreds of vouchers you probably have and makes it so you're only really eating for AUL. The fact it persists through faints is pretty much moot given you really shouldn't be fainting much to anything given you had to grind Fatalis to obtain this armor.

I main bow so I'd be looking at things from a DPS perspective but from comments I was lead to believe it was just as good for the other weapons as well, again I haven't actually gotten it because I have less time to play games atm, I'll probably get it over the coming week or two but yeah that was my point "what more is there to do other than to carry lowbies",

I think some of my favorite parts of MH games in general is overcoming walls, making builds and helping others, so yeah maybe a damage cap is a bad idea but I would really have liked it if there wasn't a fixation on crafting like 2-3 meta armour sets per weapon of pretty much the same build just with ever so slight variations considering the share amount of armour that is basically redundant in the game.

I really like the systems for making KT weapons relevant in the endgame considering everyone had to spend so long farming KT before Ice-borne and I like the Safi weapon system too (I've took a pretty long break just before Safi came out so it's new to me atm) but I think systems like that would be really great for armour as well

[<//𝖅𝖊𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖙𝖙/]

Originally posted by Traveler:

Community Toxicity scales with size. That's why the MH community got worse with World. I also have played MH since the first one on PS2, and I don't think I've ever cared so much about "meta" armor sets. The entire idea of a "Meta" in Monster Hunter has always seemed ridiculous. I got my way through every game soloing mostly just using full sets because it looked cool without issues. Everyone takes gaming so much more seriously now and feel like they have to be using the BEST OF THE BEST everything in order to win.

It's kind of sad honestly. Just have fun.

Yeah maybe it's because I've played since before World, I just remember before you could test weapon damage output, you just played the game because it was fun and tried different things.

[lexilogo]

Capping damage output is one of those ideas that might sound good on paper but pretty much always fails- It doesn't affect the people who don't reach the damage output cap and those who do just have a worse gameplay experience where now their skill pretty much doesn't matter anymore.


Elitists and especially armor elitists who don't understand the concept of build diversity are pricks of course and the community would be better without them. There isn't very much that the developers can do to stop it (we have to attack it manually when we see it pop up), but if there's one thing that would help deal with it, it'd be more bonuses like Frostcraft that f**k with the idea of meta armorsets as much as possible, which is the direction armorsets have been going in with Iceborne's endgame (excluding Fatalis which is designed to be stupidly good) to make BiS gear harder if not impossible to truly calculate.


I also think MH Rise will do some good in this department. You can't exactly carry damage meters or autokick mods to Switch and I think some of the toxicity will be haemorrhaged in the transition thanks to that.

[Shift]

That's what you get when capcom let players analyze someone else stats. People can't have nice things so long as the dude next door have the slightliest superiority complex.

A nice rule is if someone takes the time to open that window and inspect your build, kick them and block them. 99.9% they're a bunch of elitist ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who are only in to make themselves feel good in front of random strangers.

[shalinthesilent]

Originally posted by Shift:

That's what you get when capcom let players analyze someone else stats. People can't have nice things so long as the dude next door have the slightliest superiority complex.

A nice rule is if someone takes the time to open that window and inspect your build, kick them and block them. 99.9% they're a bunch of elitist ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who are only in to make themselves feel good in front of random strangers.

Uhh... you do know that has been a basic feature since at least 4U, right? I'd say that elitism is not as big as a problem as it is being made out to be, more that such elitists are now able to either:

A) roam freely in hubs instead of being forced to play with friends before World

B) Low effort responses to low effort questions that come off as being overly aggressive

Unkind people generally got kicked in the old world, but at that same time newbies that wandered into a hub with a rotation already established generally got kicked if they were not polite. The current SOS system no longer forces people to get along or fail horribly, and killed off the always fun after hunt talks with other people. As for the low effort responses... most of the community here is kind, probably one of the best in all honesty. It's just that unless you narrow down your question when asking for help there is not much that can be said other than to practice, practice, and practice until you can figure things out on your own.

Edit: I for one love looking at other people's loadouts because I like to both see what other people are running to try out later if it looks fun or better than what i have and to give pointers to newer players when they are running a hodgepodge of skills or severely outclassed armor that will lead to them getting one shot. I'm sure I am not alone in this either.

[Kvervandi]

Originally posted by Traveler:

Community Toxicity scales with size. That's why the MH community got worse with World. I also have played MH since the first one on PS2, and I don't think I've ever cared so much about "meta" armor sets. The entire idea of a "Meta" in Monster Hunter has always seemed ridiculous. I got my way through every game soloing mostly just using full sets because it looked cool without issues. Everyone takes gaming so much more seriously now and feel like they have to be using the BEST OF THE BEST everything in order to win.

It's kind of sad honestly. Just have fun.

I find this comment really interesting and often wish I could share the sentiment.
I believe the topic sums up what the "more -invested" gaming community has become, rather than MH specifically.

When I was a kid, playing through RPG classics Final Fantasy VII, Gothic, Baldurs Gate, even Vanilla WoW - I went in blind and had tons of fun exploring the many options of a game, being curious whenever an unfamiliar item pops up. That was the real experience - beating it was just a bonus.

Fast forward some years and I'm mid 30's gamer who've come to know what to expect from games. There will always be a Meta as long as there is any element of Multiplayer what so ever.
Can I not follow it? Yes, of course BUT....
We populated the internet with resource sites, coaching services, guides and step-by-step guides to every single encounter in any game ever, and tabbing out for a quick google search can show you exactly where to find that missing item.

It is a two-edged sword because while I wish could forget all that and just explore a game like MHW blindly, I know how much a bit of reading can point me in a good direction and because I no longer have an entire weekend to play blindly - I feel like I¨'m "missing out" if I don't just research a little bit!
When completing the Dark Souls Series I've made a deliberate effort to not investigate anything on my first playthrough, but games with more of a MP Focus, I find it near impossible. Sadly.

[Xedhadeaus]

A lot of the older monster hunter elitism was lost due to the fact most encounters were face to face... a lot of people hate weapons or sets, but if they see how you use them, you'll never know.

Kind of like everything else in this world. you won't find a feminist just by looking around normally, same with racists, or elitists... but in places like here where you aren't seen face to face, or in game together, the insults fly.

[pRaX]

Elitism in this game/franchise just makes me laugh.