HBG Beyond OP

[SparkleDuck]

I know I can choose to just play anything else but gawd damn it's hard to find the motivation to play something else when HBG outdamages literally every other weapon in the game. This is a zero skill weapon that can tank through any hit and can literally triple most peoples damage output.

Some weapons in some scenarios can sometimes come close to the HBG damage but the overwhelming majority of the time I can massively outdamage anything but another HBG user.

I love playing SNS but I almost feel like it would just be better to bring HBG instead because of the sheer DPS brought. I dunno, I'm sure there are some people that will tell me that it's not that OP for X and Y reason but at MR 117 and HR 200 I think I've seen enough HBG to see how busted this weapon is.

It might just be me, and I probably just need to get over myself, but it just sucks seeing one weapon outpace others so massively.

[The Ineffable Qdoggus]

Originally posted by Grottowalker:

Originally posted by looser:

its the most hardest weapon to play properly because you move the slowest, roll slowest, attack slowest, reload slowest and sheathe slowest

evade extender or 3 guard mods/guard/guard up says otherwise.

HBG is the go to cheese weapon if you want it to be.

Yeah okay, sure. If you want to spend time grinding, gear, and deco slots optmizing your build, then sure. At that point, you've kind of earned it just like everyone else. Again, there were some moves that werent meant to be tanked but can be. Yet a smart HBG user knows when to roll and doesnt require evasion distance to do it.

[Sacred Heart]

Originally posted by The Ineffable Qdoggus:

Originally posted by Elemental Seraph:

...Just like any other weapon in the game..

Nah, melee wants to be close, which is easy with aggro. Ranged needs distance, which isnt as easy as you claim.

I use every ranged weapon, and trust me, i found them easier to "master" than any melee weapons. i had a much harder time getting used to hammer and when to strike, then a BOW gun, just "stand over there and don't get hit" style they all have.

[lexilogo]

Conspiracy theory:

Everyone who doesn't use Heavy Bowgun generally already dislikes it, but to convince them further Capcom overtuned the Loyal Thunder so its perception as the lazy choice for top tier damage would be solidified.

Everyone who DOES use Heavy Bowgun now hates it too, because of the Special Scope.

Capcom have been doing this to set up the community for the next MH game, in which all Heavy Bowguns will be destroyed and the one true greatest ranged weapon in the series, the Medium Bowgun, will make its triumphant return to replace it.

Originally posted by Oni:

U will understand more when Safi Bow release !
+++ HBG - Deal more damage if u solo, but in teamfight Monster HOP alot / everywhere too. U need to tenderize spot to deal even more dmg and the animation is super SLOW

HBG actually has different tenderise animations depending on if you use wyvernheart/snipe. Wyvernsnipe's tenderise animation is actually really fast IIRC and HBG is the only weapon to make Clutch Claw only builds viable.


For a serious point, I think Capcom are recognising the issues with a lot of their weapontypes and are trying to fix them. The many changes to Lance are a good example IMO of this, they've been adding different kinds of guards that require more mechanical skill to use while keeping Lance's base identity, trying to remove its perception as a "noob weapon".

They seem to have taken the same approach to IB Bowguns, but while the Light Bowgun's Evading Reload seems to have been successful (I mean, I'm not an LBG main, maybe they have a different take on it. Wyvernblast mines are also really cool) even HBG users are hating the Special Scope.

Hopefully future MH releases' changes to Bowgun can make the weapontype better in the future. I really like the weapon in concept but everything about HBG has pretty much devolved to "point in direction of monster, shoot, win" which is unfortunate.


Edit as an addendum: While I'm not an HBG main and I don't think I have enough experience with the weapon for much of an opinion, IMO the issue is that Bowgun builds typically fall into using the same ammotype (generally Spread) as much as possible, as opposed to actually having to manage ammo and use a wide array of different types.

Maybe the solution is moving away from Spread, Pierce, or Normal ever being the most efficient way for HBGs to deal damage but instead having various other types of ammo that are the most DPS-efficient, but are far harder to use and require more specific situations, as well as ammotypes that help you control monster behaviour. Eg. A "snipe" ammo that has unlimited range and total Crit Distance past 30 meters or so, but a slow rate of fire and draws monster aggro towards you, Meowcano-style ammo that requires monsters to be still to deal the most damage, ammo that fires quickly and flinches monsters but knocks you away with a big animation (like a quick firing Wyvern ammo), weird stuff like that to make HBG a thinking man's weapon while LBG is the more impatient cousin.

HBG mains can say their pieces on if they think a weapontype that works more like that would be agreeable with them.

[Greb]

Originally posted by The Ineffable Qdoggus:

Nah, melee wants to be close, which is easy with aggro. Ranged needs distance, which isnt as easy as you claim.

Loyal Thunder with 3 Shields says otherwise, friendo!

So does a Pierce 3 Baleful Night / Kadachi Lion II with Mind's Eye/Ballistics!

Or a Hidden Bullet II / Blackwing Bowgun II LBG with its Sticky / Pierce shenanigans.

Those are basically the only three bowguns I've seen anyone use online so far and those guys could have been directly underneath a monster tanking everything and still shredding it, lol.

I'm sure there are other bowguns that are more finely tuned and balanced to an interesting playstyle, certainly so if you're using the Scope mod on it which wants supremely perfect positioning, but not many people I've ran into seem to care much about that lol.

On the plus side, the incidents of cluster bomb users has gone down dramatically. I wonder if that has anything to do with the nerf.

[The Ineffable Qdoggus]

Originally posted by Elemental Seraph:

Originally posted by The Ineffable Qdoggus:

Nah, melee wants to be close, which is easy with aggro. Ranged needs distance, which isnt as easy as you claim.

I use every ranged weapon, and trust me, i found them easier to "master" than any melee weapons. i had a much harder time getting used to hammer and when to strike, then a BOW gun, just "stand over there and don't get hit" style they all have.

Wow, we must be fighting different monsters then. That kind of thinking just doesnt work, especially with ruiner, extremoth, Luna, Teo, etc. You should look at my profile brochacho. I might know a thing or two like you do.

[Skrubble]

In a game full of bs, I'm pretty ok having a bs capable weapon.

[Sacred Heart]

Originally posted by The Ineffable Qdoggus:

Originally posted by Elemental Seraph:

I use every ranged weapon, and trust me, i found them easier to "master" than any melee weapons. i had a much harder time getting used to hammer and when to strike, then a BOW gun, just "stand over there and don't get hit" style they all have.

Wow, we must be fighting different monsters then. That kind of thinking just doesnt work, especially with ruiner.

It clearly doesn;t, cause i don't think you actually use them, ruiner especially is much easier with a HBG, than melee.

Good luck with the tempered version coming soon.

[The Ineffable Qdoggus]

Originally posted by Elemental Seraph:

Originally posted by The Ineffable Qdoggus:

Wow, we must be fighting different monsters then. That kind of thinking just doesnt work, especially with ruiner.

It clearly doesn;t, cause i don't think you actually use them, ruiner especially is much easier with a HBG, than melee.

Good luck with the tempered version coming soon.

Wish you could see my guild card, over 200+ nergis and counting.

[Tresh]

Originally posted by 『amathy』:

it's a tradeoff for being the most boring playstyle in the game

Basically this. I tried HBG because guild palace HBG looked amazing (yes, literally just for that reason) but it made MHW feel more like a chore than a fun game.

[Tresh]

Originally posted by Elemental Seraph:

Originally posted by The Ineffable Qdoggus:

Wow, we must be fighting different monsters then. That kind of thinking just doesnt work, especially with ruiner.

It clearly doesn;t, cause i don't think you actually use them, ruiner especially is much easier with a HBG, than melee.

Good luck with the tempered version coming soon.

Easier, but a lot of people don't play this game to be easy. tbh, I like a challenge.

[Sacred Heart]

Originally posted by The Ineffable Qdoggus:

Originally posted by Elemental Seraph:

It clearly doesn;t, cause i don't think you actually use them, ruiner especially is much easier with a HBG, than melee.

Good luck with the tempered version coming soon.

Wish you could see my guild card, over 200+ nergis and counting.

And? how does the number you have an argument to my point?

My point was all weapons take mastering, ranged weapons just happen to be easier to master than melee.

This is a pointless argument.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by Dunathon:

Originally posted by 『amathy』:

it's a tradeoff for being the most boring playstyle in the game

Basically this. I tried HBG because guild palace HBG looked amazing (yes, literally just for that reason) but it made MHW feel more like a chore than a fun game.

Use it for the clutch claw tenderize spam meme build.

It's surprisingly fun to play on some monsters.

[Tresh]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Originally posted by Dunathon:

Basically this. I tried HBG because guild palace HBG looked amazing (yes, literally just for that reason) but it made MHW feel more like a chore than a fun game.

Use it for the clutch claw tenderize spam meme build.

It's surprisingly fun to play on some monsters.

Nah, I enjoy my big hammer too much atm.

[The Ineffable Qdoggus]

Originally posted by Dunathon:

Originally posted by 『amathy』:

it's a tradeoff for being the most boring playstyle in the game

Basically this. I tried HBG because guild palace HBG looked amazing (yes, literally just for that reason) but it made MHW feel more like a chore than a fun game.

Ya know what, why not. I agree, it is super boring "not carting" and laying down solid deeps while being able to observe the monster in action from a perspective that most "non-ranged" builds dont get to enjoy.

[The Ineffable Qdoggus]

Originally posted by Elemental Seraph:

Originally posted by The Ineffable Qdoggus:

Wish you could see my guild card, over 200+ nergis and counting.

And? how does the number you have an argument to my point?

My point was all weapons take mastering, ranged weapons just happen to be easier to master than melee.

This is a pointless argument.

Wow, so you thought I was arguing? Nah bruh, it's just a different playstyle and to each their own. If you think that melee users see the monster from the same distance and perspective as long ranged users, then who am I to argue. I'd love to see a teleporting greatsword user though.