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Oh so whenever enemy team picks a hero. I must "OMG. i must avoid picking the hero that can counter him because we are not suppose to do that'.
First of all, your first two paragraphs are more or less worthless, considering how there's no 'fair all-pick mode with no limitations'. I care if people wait to counter-pick because they receive no penalty even if they wait for the entire enemy team to pick, and it ruins the game if multiple people do it and you're close to the same skill level. I'm not mad, I just want change; please, learn the difference, because I'm not spouting swears and such, but expressing a point in a calm manner.
No, Captain's Mode is not what I want, because Captain's Mode doesn't allow me to pick the hero I want, assigns a captain who picks for the whole team and can ignore your decision(And thus force you to take a hero you dislike or cannot play, and penalties are tacked upon leaving), takes several minutes to get into the game, etc. Some heroes also cannot be played in Captain's Mode. Nice try, tho; there's no mode that has no hero restrictions and doesn't allow a team or player(s) to counter-pick with no penalty. Something as short as a thirty second window to think and a ten second pick time in All-Pick would be significant enough; it could even just be making it so picking after the actual time is up gives you a penalty in Gold so that people who really wait as long as they can to counter-pick get punished.
Not all of us are comfortable enough with their heroes to play like that, not all of us can counter heroes that counter the heroes we picked and not all of us are fine with the enemy, or our allies, being able to counter pick at any point before the creeps spawn in order to skewer the game in a direction at no penalty.
The problem is is that you want the game to be "fair". A funny concept when you are pugging...
The game will never be fair in a pug. Most of the time people will pick the hero they want to play, not what is good for the team. So, even if they did add some measure to address counter-picking, most people wouldn't understand the concept anyway.
In fact, it may only add to the frustration and negative morale when one of your team members gets to counter-pick, but doesn't know/listen and decides to go with what he wants.
It's always nail-biting tension at the beginning to see if a courier will be bought by support.. and you expect people to understand counter-picking? But even then, that's still not the sole of the issue.
The issue is is that it's arbitrary non-sense and has no need to be in an exhibition mode.
Hi octavia,
So you are saying that it is unfair to counterpick hero in an open public AP game?
So if you pick Nature prophet and I just happen wanted to play Spirit Breaker. I have to get a penalty because spirit can counter prophet?
Don't you thing it's a bit selfish that in an open public game you think what doesnt go with your way is unfair?
I don't care if someone picks what they want to play. I want it to be fair from a game mechanics standpoint, where with a minute plus of picking time, ideally, forty seconds or so would be wasted to ensure counter-picks cannot happen; some people understand this mentality, and do it. I'm not expecting players to counter-pick, but when the enemy team, or my team, can do so without penalties even after the time to pick has run out, something is clearly unfair.
If you're so pressed with how it's "non-sense", then I suppose we simply drop the time in All-Pick to thirty seconds instead of a minute or so and give players penalties if they don't pick, in terms of Gold, after this thirty seconds. If people just play whatever they want, this hardly causes problems; except you seem to act as if counter-picking in public games doesn't exist, and I don't expect players to understand that concept, but saying that some players shouldn't be allowed the opportunity(Even if they don't do it) is silly.
You keep claiming it's an exhibition mode, but it's the only mode that guarantees a player may play who they wish(Minus another player claiming it) and has no limitations. Making it so players can't counter-pick if they have the knowledge and stomp them even easier sounds like a completely reasonable proposition, and if you claim it's nonsense, then please, disprove it; all you've done is claim it could 'negatively affect moral'(As can captains forcing you to play a hero you dislike, an alternative you suggested) and 'games will never be fair'(Irrelevant, since you make reference to skill and not game mechanics).
Simply put, there's no mode that allows a player to pick the hero they want, without fail, and doesn't expose them to an enemy team counter-picking at no penalty or having to wait out forty plus seconds of the draft time. Shorten the draft time, or make it so picks happen rapidly in an order to prevent counter-picking opportunities.
A small edit to Cadlene.
I'd have a problem if you intentionally waited for me to pick Nature's Prophet before picking Spirit Breaker, especially if you waited for me to jump in the game beforehand. If everyone followed your logic then NOBODY would pick first, and thus games would never start; I don't mind it if someone randomly picks something that counters a hero I picked, but when they intentionally wait until I, or allies, pick before they do(Generally waiting until a match starts to see the enemy team composition), yes, I would view it as wrong.
It's not selfish at all, it's the issue of fairness. If you have the opportunity to counter-pick at no penalty, why shouldn't I? That brings back the previous example of neither of us picking, and since there's no order of picks, you're free to wait with three members not choosing on a team until the enemy team has picked their heroes, and thus intentionally skewer the match in their favor in a way that cannot be prevented without making the action itself impossible. I'm asking for a system that makes picking in All-Pick fair, so that each team has the OPPORTUNITY to counter-pick, even if they don't do it, rather than making it so people who intentionally wait to pick receive a guaranteed advantage in terms of knowledge.
However what I do care is that that counterpicker takes ages to choose his counter pick(whether its on my team or not) and you are forced to pause and wait for him to pick. There should be some penalty in gold involved if a hero hasn't been picked after creeps spawned.
Somewhat, yes, since I don't agree with the random Gold bonuses either; ideally, I'd enjoy a mode like Captain's Mode in terms of picking, minus the captain and bans, so the same picking 'scheme', no random Gold bonuses and all heroes unlocked. It just makes no sense to allow one team to counter-pick without penalty or receive a huge Gold bonus for no reason...
If All-Pick isn't changed, I'd just like something else to compensate. Something as simple as "Casual Captain's Mode" would suffice, with their method of picking(With shorter timers), no captain, no bans, all heroes unlocked, no random bonuses... it'd be nice to play without knowing that if I pick, I lose the opportunity to counter-pick and the other team can receive rather large advantages by choosing random, while also knowing I'm not bound to specific heroes(Either due to having someone else pick for me or have them not in the available pool).
That's all. Either change All-Pick to that or make a new mode with such conditions so that those who don't have at least five minutes to go through the Captain's Mode picks can still benefit from the 'orchestrated' picks, without having to limit themselves to certain heroes in other modes such as Single Draft or Random Draft or whatever.