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What are you talking about. I know (should put this on list above) that mostly kids are playing and using forum BUT how can you support claim that i'm toxic? I wrote about ppl behaviour because i'm working in psych field for 15 years and i'm gamers aswell so i observe
Even 15 years ago i could notice that the way system and company works will create toxic action.
And yes rape victims are not ones to blame BUT you cant ignore factors. You cant wear russia symbols and walk in ukraine and then cry that someone punched you. You cant wear catholic cross and walk in alkhaida territory. You get that, or you are too young and naive to understand real world?
In kids minds no one should hurt them or be mean but we adults know better thats why we protect them. These days young ppl think they can be protected forever and then crying starts when its time for reality check.
Back to DOTA. If you create system where its VICTIM punished (guy trapped in team with feeders etc.) not the bad guys then he will at one point become "toxic". Its really that simple
Congrats friend you've gained insight and enlightenment on issue of the dota 2 toxicity issue unlike the first 2 posters who never gained anything and kept defending the game and company especially the part how matchmaking plays part in leading towards ingame toxicity
How is rather simple. Matchmaking is a joke for years, MMR is joke for years and game mechanics are toxic in their nature.
-Every time you get a win streak you then are paired with such a bad team mates you will get lose streak and stay in same MMR bracket (i see others see that aswell)
This can be abbreviated to Forced 50% some defence team and fan boys call it conspiracy theories but people with brain call it reality you know who these defence team and fan boys are based on their comments
-Game is long, let say avarage match 40-50min yet if you see that you will lose at 10min you need to drag this pain out to the end...
This needs for players to end the match as team like league after certain conditions are met such as bad team stats differential which happens 90% of the time in valve dota 2 matches and this also forces the lazy dota 2 devs to actually code the matchmaking towards more balanced way
-...if you have feeder in team you need to drag this pain to the end wasting time...
-...if you have DC/AFKer in team you need to drag this pain to the end wasting time
Exactly you got it
Most online modern games are catching up to this and this is the most significant factor in reducing online gaming toxicity from what I've been able to test in my field
-Game show you who is in party/premade only AFTER the match so everytime you get in argue with 1 feeder then you will be reported by 2-3 of his friends and its only 1 of you, doesnt matter that it s you who's right
-Show premades from game start
This is very important good point
Smart players use external ingame tools such as Dota plus from overwolf yet official ingame application and dota 2 devs won't bother to implement this simple quality of life feature because this feature thwarts the vision of the egoist dota 2 devs and many game developers its way too common in game dev field
Such an easy solution could be implemented to fix that yet no one bother.
-Match end when one team has 2/3x more kills at 10-15min
This is actually bad friend just allow the losing to have the option to end the match instead of auto forcing match end like what league does
There is a small chance for comeback mechanics to work let the players decide with 3-4/5 votes obviously and in the case of 3 party and 2 solo requires all the solo players to accept the match loss to balance the party abuse issue
-Bot joins fight when someone DC
I don't think valve developers are competent for this they will not hire competent devs due to the current valve company politics
-Team with DC player get more exp/gold to balance lost
This is already done friend no need for this
-Everyone need to finish few matches in training with bots before joining online
This is bad idea just lowers the barrier for account sellers and smurfs to grief and ruin games
Its so obvious you understand this toxicity issue as a psychologist clearly
Dota 2 toxicity stems from game design simple centred around "negative" feedback loop
negative validation, rewards, reinforcement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement
which is part of the dark triad game pattern look it up
https://www.darkpattern.games/
the specific account didn't want to understand for this game its like they're paid not to understand the problem
I'd suggest you to ignore with steam account that can't accept any criticism towards the game and company in alternative world you would call them a shill in this world aka forum you would call them defender based on their behaviour
Wow you got the crux of the dota 2 toxicity issue in the last paragraph in simple words
Victims are punished more than the perpetrators which leads to self fulfilling cycle of turning victims into perpetrators in the future
This is true in reality as many of the victims of the forced 50% turn to cheats to gain edge against the bad forced matchmaking from smurfs, griefers and algortihm
bad que time to make new smurf account that obviously feed the previous one
griefers aka casual make the match quality worse with no casual que option
matchmaking is algorithm is abomination bad mixure of old ELO+Glicko(1980) both are old and new modern EngagementOptimizedMatchmaking etc
I don't believe in that theory. Instead I believe in the saying that every community gets what it deserves. And I believe in human's free will, at least in a free to play video game.
A person blaming everybody and everything but himself for a situation being stuck in just refuses to acknowledge any own responsibility.
Out of all other multiplayer games valve multiplayer games ranks in the top 10 out of all the multiplayer games out there for a good reason
These sites are for the latest for 2023* as 2024 hasn't fully past yet* in current time of writing 15/03/2024 not even Q1 out Q4 2024
https://www.esportsbets.com/news/toxic-gaming-communities/
3- Dota2
5- CS GO now CS2
https://dotesports.com/general/news/the-most-toxic-gaming-communities-in-the-world
1 Dota 2
2 CS GO
as valve use their same design philosophy of dark pattern for their online games yet its somehow according to the corporate defenders its all users/players fault for not being responsible against the power of the system and its these users/players that blames everybody else but themselves the users/players implying user/players can't self reflect and are selfish child and its always user/players fault always never the company
https://gam3s.gg/news/toxicity-multiplayer-games-unity/ 2023
Research conducted by Unity Game Engine very normie/mainstream friendly based game engine company
Chart 1.1 (Types of toxic behavior players have witnessed or experienced while playing
multiplayer video games in the past 12 months)
Literally the first result is 1. Cheating
2. Intended Disruption
3. Hate
4. Inappropriate Content
5. Aggravation and abuse play
6. Unintended disruption
7. Harrassment
8. Extremism
9. Predatory behaviour
These are the sources of the toxicity
Now for solutions
1. Fix VAC but I can't expect VAC to get fixed when the VAC security engineers refuse to acknowledge fundamental security problems and their skill they don't listen to fans who make critical suggestions to their system and the current internal company corporate climate doesn't even make it better for better engineers to join
2. Intended Disruption simply Fix Forced 50%
3. Hate is complex but current tools are sufficient enough right now except the avoid part that should be expanded
4. Inappropriate Content moderation is the solution but valve moderation is bad nowadays
5 Aggravation and abuse play
Avoid list should be updated and improved to include 1% of the playerpool
6. Unintended Disruption this is where company can't be faulted at most sometimes niche bugs gets through the patch but its up to devs whether to admit and fix the problem such as the recent DDOS acknowledgement announcement
7. Harassment used to be big issue back then now its all updated with mute, block and avoid but I'd argue that avoid feature should block 1% of the playerpool for all players
8. Extremism not relevant anymore
9. Predatory Behaviour Dota 2 Gacha slot machine skin system and predatory EOMM
Chart 2.1
Actions players take to counteract toxicity
This is the part corporate defenders want to focus the attention on
Muting, In game reporting tools, Exiting the game, Blocking players but these are just bandaid solutions to the problem as later chart
Chart 3
Who should be primarily responsible for making games safe and inclusive for players
A substantial 81% of players believe that user protection from toxic behavior should become a top priority for game studios. This places pressure on the gaming industry to address this issue effectively and create a more inclusive gaming space.
Developers over Players
Its like these corporate defenders are out of touch and their narrative of player blaming doesn't even align with market research and reality
You can give me clown all you want if you can't argue against me free points for me
Take two rats that don't like each other, and put them in a cage long enough, one will kill the other. You think people are any different? That a digital environment is any different? It's not. Our brains function the same way for millions of years, the only thing different is the technology available to interact with.
Or forcing someone, like me for example, to lose every single hour / "ranked roles game" with mentally ill picks like Sniper Hard Support or Lion Mid....if the designers cared, they would have implemented features that prevent these autistic handicapping behaviors from occurring.
But it's designed so anybody can login and click the play button, and then behave like an immature mentally ill loser for an hour, without any accountability in this cesspool of an environment.
Absolutely
One of the main reason for griefing in this game is revenge griefing
You griefed my games in the past before now I grief yours which is eye for an eye fair imo but this type of revenge griefing wouldn't even exist if matchmaking did its job in the first place simple
The system induces and encourages the players to do these type of toxic negative behaviour if there is no source barely any reason for the negative behaviour to exist
Dota 2 tracks this griefing stats nowadays with personal winrate with x players which can be verified from your own dota 2 profile if you matched with x player after 2-5 games
Why should matchmaking even match x players with 0% winrate as teammate after 5+ games seriously dota 2 devs have all the system to track this issue problem and somehow not implement to fix the problem this is dota 2 dev fault noone else it makes 0 sense not to finish this dota 2 devs know this problem of problematic players yet did nothing to fix it as avoid list codebase already exist 0 excuse this should be automatic inb4 increased que time complainers
There are already ways for the devs to detect which players are most likely to purchase skins etc and players to quit etc but somehow the detection rate for players to purchase skins is not flawed however the detection rate for players to quit is more flawed and insidious which tells me devs care more about monetisation of f2p game than the experience itself which is common for f2p game and as a business but larping and acting like they care is too far fetched like the recent announcements
I'd blame the r/dota 2 reddit playerbase for the last point of login and click play button
They kept complaining and crying about player que time so much that player quality has decreased to the worst in online multiplayer game see this is where I blame the player base first time and perfect application of that since they're the main root cause of this brain dead problem of que quality not even the Dota 2 devs as they delivered what r/dota 2 reddit playerbase asked for; que with the fastest possible time but dota 2 devs did have the option and power not to listen to reddit so some of the blame does go to the dota 2 devs themselves in %s 90% to r/dota 2 reddit playerbase 10% to dota 2 devs
Here's the controversial point
Reddit player base are not the real Dota 2 player base simply as they're corporate raised player bases to suit Dota 2 company first over the real old playerbase as the subreddit forum rules of censorship don't allow critical issues and post to be raised or upvoted to top due to downvote bots which didn't use to be the case in the past until some r/dota redditor made most controversial post in that subreddit of valve employee (can't name due to steam forum rule how convenient and the forum post thread that mentioned the name got perma dota 2 forum banned) abused their power to ban the r/dota2 subreddit player in dota game after that post no critical issues threads were never allowed to be raised ever hence why dota 2 devs resort to sneaky shadow pool and banning these threads in the subreddit, this forum(this happened to me recently 1 month for mentioning issues of cheating) and even the game itself to then admit the problem afterwards with positive pr announcement fix such as recent
-DDOS fixes
Lies DDOS fix in short was Virtual Private Network with VAC security instead of previous public network which leaked the IP addresses of the players in the match (I've even made complaints of this in forum before)
Most players and cheaters know how infamously secure VAC is (sarcasm)
You're literally not going to stop DDOSers by walling ingame network traffic to private network and have weak security it defeats the point of the virtual private network entirely seriously how are these devs even getting hired I legit wanna know anti VAC sellers are laughing at bad attempt
-cheater coal ban wave
In theory this should've reduced the playerbase count but that didn't happen rather increased in that month as cheaters , griefers etc just made new account and dodge it dota 2 devs didn't even track them and ban for second time
this type of controlled relationship with r/dota 2 playerbase alienated many old dota 2 (dota1) playerbases in this case it would be 40-50/50-60% since the relationship was symbiotic towards certain goal
In the end devs have control over how the matchmaking and game works its their IP for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ not the players if the players had the control such as real option not fake illusion over how matchmaking and game worked then it would be player fault but there are countless examples of devs being at fault than the players
To summarize, in Dota2 the game design meets exactly the peer group it is made for. Hardly any female players and no mature players or players with a penchant for cooperative games.
The only problem is the 10% or so of players who can dish it out but can't take it. And another 10% who have no ability to recognize and interrupt the inherent frustration-aggression cycle. They are keen on competition but can't stand it. And then, of course, the proportion of addicted players who, by analogy, blame the liquor manufacturer for their addiction. A typical love-hate relationship between the dealer and the junkey.