Nerf the leaver passive gold bonus

[B[A]lto]

The passive gold bonus from leavers is pretty ridiculous. The first time I found out about it we were easily winning the game, then Sniper was getting his gold and came around with six slots of items and won it from that alone. A leaver should be a disadvantage, not an advantage. More often than not that seems to be what happens in my experience. Please nerf the gold bonus from leavers. You should not be able to win a game 1v4 or 1v5 with 1.5k gpm like I did a few weeks back when my team left, yet you can. That is so far broken it isn't even funny.

[La vie est comme une fleur! (Flo]

Originally posted by BAltow0lf:

Again though, I don't care WHAT you want to call it, gold redistribution or bonus gold, no matter what it does the same thing.

I just noticed that it´s not the same thing as i completly missed that Point you made.

Gold redistribution = sharing the complete gold one person has with the rest of the team.
Bonus Gold = Gold you passively earn each second/minute

So while both give out Gold to the remaining Players, the amount they give differentiate greatly
(1 Manaboots = 750gold amoung the teammembers)
so if you would only gain passive gold it would still be harder for you to go against 1vs5 for example.

[N8Rush]

Several months ago a 1-5d with a meepo, I didn't win, but it was still a challenge for them, and was fun.

[A-Bomb]

You guys want steam to nerf everything.Next it's gonna be "Nerf courier speed boost"

[Deepbluediver]

Teams that are playing down a man ARE as a disadvantage, generally. If their teammate leave early on sometimes the rest of the group can farm enough XP to make up the difference, but it's risky if you don't have a good solo-laner.

If it happens late in the game then you're basically screwed, because even selling off the items the DC'd player bought doesn't really compensate, and 4v5 teamfights are a pain without a very specific composition.

[Kurzidan]

Is the OP retarded? You're telling Me, That Your Oponent should be PUNISHED for a troll/ass/etc "leaver" and be doomed to lose because some jackass( or w/e) left the game?
No.
This is why the passive gold exists.
All gold the leaver has is divided up to the remaining heroes when they've disconnected for 5mins/abandoned
All the gold per second the said "leaver" gets, cause it still gets GPS, is also, divided up.
it is a BALANCER mechanic, and good teamwork will almost always break this mechanic.
It is not really an advantage at all, because 1v5 is extremely hard to pull off for most characters, even if they have good items.

[Ducks]

this is not new,this guy is 100% right!
i forgot to count how many times it happen to me,but the moral of the story is-how many times it happen to you!?you play good,your team doing fine and one kid from the ENEMY team feeds and than rq before mid game.
now its 4-5 or 3-5,when the enemy team gets crazy amount of gold/exp,and in the end it comes down to 5 man team levels 11-13 vs 3 man team levels 20 with crazy items...gg wp.
WHY SHOULD A GOOD TEAM PAY FOR MISTAKES OF A FEEDIN RQ NOOB FROM THE DAMN ENEMY TEAM?

[B[A]lto]

Originally posted by Kurzidan:

Is the OP retarded? You're telling Me, That Your Oponent should be PUNISHED for a troll/ass/etc "leaver" and be doomed to lose because some jackass( or w/e) left the game?
No.
This is why the passive gold exists.
All gold the leaver has is divided up to the remaining heroes when they've disconnected for 5mins/abandoned
All the gold per second the said "leaver" gets, cause it still gets GPS, is also, divided up.
it is a BALANCER mechanic, and good teamwork will almost always break this mechanic.
It is not really an advantage at all, because 1v5 is extremely hard to pull off for most characters, even if they have good items.

No I'm not. As I asked the other naysayers: have you ever lost a game purely because of this? Until my last Puck game, what would have been my first win as Puck was a loss simply because it's impossible to kill a Sniper that got so farmed as he did in a teamfight. As I've said in the past, I don't care what your argument is, I've been in these situations where I've lost purely because of that unfair bonus because as others have also said, if you have one core item when they have three, or you have six but they have free Divine Rapiers and all these other expensive items and are able to solo Rosh in 20 seconds, it's not fair. And no, don't go on that stupid Dota community "so you lost so it must be OP" crap, I've been on both sides and think it's ridiculous. I played 1v4 97% of a game and won as PA simply because I didn't even need to farm to get my items. I got Boots of Travel and was able to kill anyone in about four seconds max and then when they were dead I could go to other lanes. Yes, obviously rat Dota would win it, but remember: you can only push if you're alive. I'm going to make the safe assumption and assume you have never been in this situation, since it's obvious you don't understand my point. Others have posted in here who have been in these situations on both sides and agreed. It's always the people who make no indications they've been in a game where it's happened who seem to think we're idiots for suggesting such a thing. (Oh, and yes I won that game even in a base race. They had two underfarmed heroes (compared to me, who had two Rapiers, BoT, and all this other crap.) on my ancient with just me on theirs. I won.)

Rereading your post I find this statement at the end funny "1v5 is extremely hard to pull off for most characters" really? Have you done it? I did 1v4 as PA (since someone left) and I was 4v1 against an Earthshaker. Both times the team with more people got wrecked in fights because the solo player was too strong with all his OP farm at 20 minutes. All I had to do as PA, a hero who shouldn't be able to 1v4 a team in a fight, was get a BKB and a Linkens and right click them. If you think it's extremely hard then it's obvious you've never done it or seen it. (Feel free to point it out if you have, but there's certainly no indication you have.) Yes, there are some heroes who it would be extremely hard, such as I would imagine Crystal Maiden, but others not at all.

[XH]

You expect 1v5 without buffs to the one guy? He should get all the HP and mana, items, blah blah crap from his team. That's what I think. But then it might be unfair for the 5 dudes if they can't cooperate...

[B[A]lto]

Originally posted by You want the D?:

I still choose to believe that 1 Guy cant dominate 3 lanes even if that Guy is Tinker or some other tp hero.
And having been in the same situation before as PL, I know how OP you can be, still the enemy team pushed all Lanes simultaniously which resulted in me having to go from one lane to another until they pushed into the Base.

It´s not impossible to kill somebody if you lock him down or otherwise distract him, as a Blademail vs a Non-BKB PA can work wonders.

Of course it isn't impossible, but it's extremely hard when that guy is doing insane crits to you like happened when I did and cleavecritting everything with two or three Rapiers. When I was on the team with numbers, it wasn Earthshaker so he was stunning and right clicking us and hitting really hard from all his levels and farm, even though he was a support. A decent player should be able to do it fine. In my case, I was able to counter some pushing since I had Boots of Travel and was able to slay everyone in a few seconds. They had 40+ second respawns so I could either kill them and push and they could stop me down a guy, or I could trade towers which I did as well. I believe I traded once or twice and I probably took more towers. I don't remember exactly though, but I could push twice as fast as them with all my damage. In order to split push you need to be alive and able to not die immediately when splitting up, which is hard to do against someone who's overfarmed at 20 minutes when all you have is a few items and they're six-slotted.

Originally posted by You want the D?:

I just noticed that it´s not the same thing as i completly missed that Point you made.

Gold redistribution = sharing the complete gold one person has with the rest of the team.
Bonus Gold = Gold you passively earn each second/minute

So while both give out Gold to the remaining Players, the amount they give differentiate greatly
(1 Manaboots = 750gold amoung the teammembers)
so if you would only gain passive gold it would still be harder for you to go against 1vs5 for example.

Really though: why does what we call it matter? No matter what you call it, it gives the guys on the team with a leaver more gold than you. I don't care if you call it fish or bonus gold or something totally wrong, it does the same thing.

[B[A]lto]

Originally posted by XH:

You expect 1v5 without buffs to the one guy? He should get all the HP and mana, items, blah blah crap from his team. That's what I think. But then it might be unfair for the 5 dudes if they can't cooperate...

It's already unfair to begin with. Why should you get their HP and mana? That's absolutely ridiculous. You already get 1.5k gpm from sitting in fountain when your whole team leaves. As I've asked: Have you been in this situation?

[ChubbNutt]

I was wondering why this thread gave me deja-vu and why everyone was calling Bruce Wayne "Axe." Why was this thread brought back?

Anyway Batman is right.

[Deepbluediver]

Originally posted by BAltow0lf:

You already get 1.5k gpm from sitting in fountain when your whole team leaves. As I've asked: Have you been in this situation?

With a tiny handful of exceptions, the deck would be so stacked against a single player that gaining that much gold barely begins to qualify for balance.
There is no "bonus"; they are getting all the gold that would have gone to their team anyway, while losing out on XP, actions per minute, damage, and a variety of attacks, stuns, and other utility.

The only time I've ever seen anything close to this is when someone abandoned early, and the game isn't being recorded anyway. Sometimes people will bail when it's obvious they can't win, but frequently they aren't DC'd long enough for the gold to start transferring anyway.

[B[A]lto]

Originally posted by El Ammo Bandito:

I was wondering why this thread gave me deja-vu and why everyone was calling Bruce Wayne "Axe." Why was this thread brought back?

Anyway Batman is right.

Someone posted and it got bumped apparenly. That said we all were calling the guy who always looks like he's raging by typing in all caps "Axe" because he changed his username since posting. But no, he is not right. His arguments were absolutely ludicrous about killing anyone on the team getting the bonus since he has obviously never been there and done it himself whereas some of us in favor of nerfing it have been there before multiple times. He may be right about the mechanics, but his whole petty argument was based on the idea that I'm somehow an idiot for not knowing the intricate details of the game mechanics and calling it something that it looks like but apparently isn't. AKA: He was pretending to be Obama and picking on one little irrelevant detail to put down his opposition.

Originally posted by Deepbluediver:

With a tiny handful of exceptions, the deck would be so stacked against a single player that gaining that much gold barely begins to qualify for balance.
There is no "bonus"; they are getting all the gold that would have gone to their team anyway, while losing out on XP, actions per minute, damage, and a variety of attacks or utility.

The only time I've ever seen anything close to this is when someone abandoned early, and the game isn't being recorded anyway. Sometimes people will bail when it's obvious they can't win, but frequently they aren't DC'd long enough for the gold to start transferring anyway.

And yet those handful of exceptions are what make it broken. Beyond a certain time it does turn incredibly unfair since they'll have a few more expensive core items than you which will make them too strong to kill. I don't understand how you could think gaining 1.5k gold every single minute when not even farming accounts for balance against a team where each player only has about 300. That number will also be less since they'll be dying repeatedly to the player with a lot more farm than them.

Once again I will say that it doesn't matter how it works, it does the same thing. When I made this thread I said it was a bonus since it gives you gold you wouldn't normally have. In the English language that is known as a bonus last I checked.

Yeah, that's mostly when it happens is early abandonment. That's about the only time you can actually win a game solo, but I've lost games that we've been winning quite handily (that Puck game I mentioned in a different post we were annihilating them until Sniper showed up with his six slots of items he wouldn't have without their leaver) and then a carry shows up with his items and you can't kill him since he kills you first with all that damage. You're correct though, the only time you can really solo a team is with a pre-8 minute abandon most likely. Even still, an abandon or rage quit at the 20 minute mark can eventually win a 50 minute game if a player uses their money wisely, which it shouldn't be able to since it enables you to die without risking as much gold since you just get a ton of gold back pretty quickly.

[Deepbluediver]

Originally posted by BAltow0lf:

And yet those handful of exceptions are what make it broken. Beyond a certain time it does turn incredibly unfair since they'll have a few more expensive core items than you which will make them too strong to kill. I don't understand how you could think gaining 1.5k gold every single minute when not even farming accounts for balance against a team where each player only has about 300. That number will also be less since they'll be dying repeatedly to the player with a lot more farm than them.

For a small number of situations it makes the single player more powerful. In the majority of situations it sort-of compensates for the loss of a player. Valve picked the option that is more likely to occur.

You seem to be suggesting that it be balanced for the rare game with a single hard carry remaining but broken (or unfair) much more often. Does that sound logical to you?

Edit: Also, I think your numbers are somewhat inflated, though I admit that I might be wrong; I would appreciate indenpent verification.
Players earn 1 gold every .6 seconds, or 100 gpm. 1 player earning his entire teams gold would get 500 gpm. Just sitting in the base (as you suggest) it would take him 4-8 minutes to earn each of the late-game items he would need to dominate, or 25-40 minutes to get a full 6 slots from zero.

[Dracaryon]

According to my calculations, the whole team (i.e. you, if all others left) gets 500 gpm passively, not 1.5k.

Even a carry who benefits a lot from expensive items would need much more than just the passive gpm from his teammates to 1v5 the enemy team. I suppose that Sniper would have pwned you anyway and you're just scapegoating it on the game mechanics.