MMR, Experienced/Seasoned Players VS Noobs

[DarthTigger™ || ダースティガー™]

This is my first post on a discussion board, and I hope that it will get the attention of whoever came up with the brilliant idea of MMR in Dota 2.

I started playing Dota2 since the invite only Beta. And the thing is, starting out as a lvl 1 account, I meet people of various skill levels and occasionally meet people who are a lot higher level than I am (to which my first thoughts were, he's gonna be good; which is usually true, USUALLY)

As I gain more experience, I became a better player, which obviously gained me a lot of in game commendations.

And then the MMR system came out. So what is the problem?

1. MMR is accessible to players at lvl 13. Which means, he would have about as low as 130 hours of gameplay experience, which would mean that the said player still has a lot of experience to gain before he is actually good with basic game mechanics, such as supporting, carrying, etc.

2. Low lvl account players also tend to pick a carry more than a support because the chances are they played against a better player that basically wrecked him and thus his thoughts would be that the hero is good and OP, leading him to play the hero without actually knowing what he is doing.

3. Most of these said players also has trouble getting last hits, So the question is, why are they even allowed to be in rank games?

4. Match making in MMR is not based on hours of experienced, at least from my understanding. For example, total MMR in both teams maybe similar but hours of game play for both teams may be one sided causing the game to be one sided in most cases.

5. Inconsiderate players. We get a lot of them. Also, ranks should be region locked. Meaning if they are from SEA they shouldn't be allowed to play in another server. It screws everyone up because of lag and delay issues. It would help with a lot of abandonment (players who abandoned more than 5 games in MMR should be banned from MMR games IMO).

6. MMR will still be stated when the game is abandoned by a troll mid game. It is usually impossible or really hard to win a game of 4v5. This should be reviewed so that other players do not have to worry about another player deliberately leaving a game and affecting their MMR. I have had 5 games in a row or more that these happened and most of them are from another server, who (surprised) left because of lag/connection issues.


So what's my point in all these?

MMR needs to be reviewed in a more serious context. Number of hours of experience a player has does affect the gameplay, like how a pilot with 5000 hours of flight would make a better pilot than one with 100 hours of flight.

I enjoy the game whether its a win or lost, but only when teams are balanced. It's not an enjoyable game to play when experienced players get trolls and players who has no idea what they are doing all the time in their team or the opposing team.

[ChubbNutt]

Should not at all be a measure of someone's rank.
People do not gain "experience" at the same rate.
People do not just get better at the game over time, they do have a cap.
People make smurfs
People could just grind time to get a higher rank

Not to mention if a begginer player, assuming he is below average in skill, will get placed with players of the same skill. These begginers should not be a problem for the more skilled and experienced lot.

[Pieeer1]

So this is honestly a giant load of bull that you spent I am guessing an hour typing up because you are a little upset about that last ranked game you lost.

Let me tell you something that will help you in life: If you deserve something, then work for it. If you are constantly losing games or cannot raise MMR then maybe, just maybe, you belong in that bracket.

Another point: Matchmaking is balanced. Ever seen the MMR at the end of games? There is always someone on the other team with the same rating as one on your team. This means that overall, the system works. If they do not belong in a bracket, they will drop. If they belong above their bracket, they will rise.

[DarthTigger™ || ダースティガー™]

Originally posted by Gigante Padre:

Should not at all be a measure of someone's rank.
People do not gain "experience" at the same rate.
People do not just get better at the game over time, they do have a cap.
People make smurfs
People could just grind time to get a higher rank

Not to mention if a begginer player, assuming he is below average in skill, will get placed with players of the same skill. These begginers should not be a problem for the more skilled and experienced lot.

That's what I'm saying. The experience do not mean he is not a good player. Just means that the chances are that he at least knows the basic mechanics of dota. A player with 1000 hours of experience is more likely to read the map every 20 seconds than a player with 100 hours of experience. Same thing with reacting to pings on the map. The player may not necessarily be good, but at least he knows what to do which can affect the overall gameplay in general. For example, less feeding, running away from ganks that is clearly visible on the map because of good warding - these simple things can change the outcome of the game easily.

[Pieeer1]

Originally posted by DarthTigger™:

Originally posted by Gigante Padre:

Should not at all be a measure of someone's rank.
People do not gain "experience" at the same rate.
People do not just get better at the game over time, they do have a cap.
People make smurfs
People could just grind time to get a higher rank

Not to mention if a begginer player, assuming he is below average in skill, will get placed with players of the same skill. These begginers should not be a problem for the more skilled and experienced lot.

That's what I'm saying. The experience do not mean he is not a good player. Just means that the chances are that he at least knows the basic mechanics of dota. A player with 1000 hours of experience is more likely to read the map every 20 seconds than a player with 100 hours of experience. Same thing with reacting to pings on the map. The player may not necessarily be good, but at least he knows what to do which can affect the overall gameplay in general. For example, less feeding, running away from ganks that is clearly visible on the map because of good warding - these simple things can change the outcome of the game easily.

A player that idles for a 1000 hours is not better than a player that plays for 100.

[ChubbNutt]

Originally posted by DarthTigger™:

Originally posted by Gigante Padre:

Should not at all be a measure of someone's rank.
People do not gain "experience" at the same rate.
People do not just get better at the game over time, they do have a cap.
People make smurfs
People could just grind time to get a higher rank

Not to mention if a begginer player, assuming he is below average in skill, will get placed with players of the same skill. These begginers should not be a problem for the more skilled and experienced lot.

That's what I'm saying. The experience do not mean he is not a good player. Just means that the chances are that he at least knows the basic mechanics of dota. A player with 1000 hours of experience is more likely to read the map every 20 seconds than a player with 100 hours of experience. Same thing with reacting to pings on the map. The player may not necessarily be good, but at least he knows what to do which can affect the overall gameplay in general. For example, less feeding, running away from ganks that is clearly visible on the map because of good warding - these simple things can change the outcome of the game easily.

So then what is the point you are trying to make?
I might be missing something here.

[DarthTigger™ || ダースティガー™]

Originally posted by Pieeer1:

So this is honestly a giant load of bull that you spent I am guessing an hour typing up because you are a little upset about that last ranked game you lost.

Let me tell you something that will help you in life: If you deserve something, then work for it. If you are constantly losing games or cannot raise MMR then maybe, just maybe, you belong in that bracket.

Another point: Matchmaking is balanced. Ever seen the MMR at the end of games? There is always someone on the other team with the same rating as one on your team. This means that overall, the system works. If they do not belong in a bracket, they will drop. If they belong above their bracket, they will rise.

You, obviously didn't read my post correctly. As such, I suggest you read and understand the posts first before you make yourself sound like a fool.

My post is not a rage, its a suggestion that things can be better. Understand that before you comment for the sake of commenting.

[DarthTigger™ || ダースティガー™]

Originally posted by Pieeer1:

Originally posted by DarthTigger™:

That's what I'm saying. The experience do not mean he is not a good player. Just means that the chances are that he at least knows the basic mechanics of dota. A player with 1000 hours of experience is more likely to read the map every 20 seconds than a player with 100 hours of experience. Same thing with reacting to pings on the map. The player may not necessarily be good, but at least he knows what to do which can affect the overall gameplay in general. For example, less feeding, running away from ganks that is clearly visible on the map because of good warding - these simple things can change the outcome of the game easily.

A player that idles for a 1000 hours is not better than a player that plays for 100.

*Correction - 1000 hours of play does not mean he is a good player

[DarthTigger™ || ダースティガー™]

Originally posted by Pieeer1:

Originally posted by DarthTigger™:

That's what I'm saying. The experience do not mean he is not a good player. Just means that the chances are that he at least knows the basic mechanics of dota. A player with 1000 hours of experience is more likely to read the map every 20 seconds than a player with 100 hours of experience. Same thing with reacting to pings on the map. The player may not necessarily be good, but at least he knows what to do which can affect the overall gameplay in general. For example, less feeding, running away from ganks that is clearly visible on the map because of good warding - these simple things can change the outcome of the game easily.

A player that idles for a 1000 hours is not better than a player that plays for 100.

Point is MMR shouldn't be allowed to players at such a level. They should at least be given more hours of gameplay experience (and exploration) before allowed in MMR match. What's the point of MMR match making when you get players that don't know what they are doing half the time?

[Pieeer1]

Originally posted by DarthTigger™:

Originally posted by Pieeer1:

A player that idles for a 1000 hours is not better than a player that plays for 100.

Point is MMR shouldn't be allowed to players at such a level. They should at least be given more hours of gameplay experience (and exploration) before allowed in MMR match. What's the point of MMR match making when you get players that don't know what they are doing half the time?

If you are that low in MMR where you are finding new players, then why can you not instantly climb out of it?

[ChubbNutt]

Originally posted by DarthTigger™:

Originally posted by Pieeer1:

A player that idles for a 1000 hours is not better than a player that plays for 100.

Point is MMR shouldn't be allowed to players at such a level. They should at least be given more hours of gameplay experience (and exploration) before allowed in MMR match. What's the point of MMR match making when you get players that don't know what they are doing half the time?

Well that's the point of matchmaking, to place you with people of equal skill. If you are getting matched with people with begginer skills well...

... There are a few possibilites.

[DarthTigger™ || ダースティガー™]

Unfortunately, I play from a country that has a lot of trolls (people who leave a game halfway - I happen to get this a lot regardless of what MMR I'm at)

I'm currently below 3k MMR when my skill level was at 4K. Why and how do I get to this MMR? Because of (you guessed it) people who leave the game/connection issues, trolls and basically people who has no idea what they are doing. I get people with TBD at 3.9k MMR who has 130 hours of gameplay and cannot last hit to save his life or autoattacks at creeps all game.

The thing I'm pointing out is, shouldn't MMR mean something? If I'm getting players who are better in a normal game then I would in MMR than really, what is the whole point of MMR? Doesn't that just defeats the entire purpose?


I have seen streams of pro gamers play with a team exactly as what I have described and it didn't go well for him either. However, here is a stark comparison to being a pro in MMR in comparison to being a nobody; people tend to know he is a pro which means he is most likely to get support from his team mates most of the time (I know this because I have watched enough streams by these players). So unless we all go pro, there is no way, things are gonna work that well for us.

[DarthTigger™ || ダースティガー™]

Please note that I'm not saying I'm a good player, and I do know that MMR ratings in different server works differently.

I'm just merely suggesting that MMR be reviewed at this point because, frankly, I don't see the point of it anymore. I'm enjoying the game more in a normal matchmaking because I get people with 1000+ hours most of the time in contrast to 4 players with 100+ hours. Losing the game because its a good and even game makes it fun. Losing a game because of poor decision making and arrogant newbies, is not fun.

[Pieeer1]

Originally posted by DarthTigger™:

Unfortunately, I play from a country that has a lot of trolls (people who leave a game halfway - I happen to get this a lot regardless of what MMR I'm at)

I'm currently below 3k MMR when my skill level was at 4K. Why and how do I get to this MMR? Because of (you guessed it) people who leave the game/connection issues, trolls and basically people who has no idea what they are doing. I get people with TBD at 3.9k MMR who has 130 hours of gameplay and cannot last hit to save his life or autoattacks at creeps all game.

The thing I'm pointing out is, shouldn't MMR mean something? If I'm getting players who are better in a normal game then I would in MMR than really, what is the whole point of MMR? Doesn't that just defeats the entire purpose?


I have seen streams of pro gamers play with a team exactly as what I have described and it didn't go well for him either. However, here is a stark comparison to being a pro in MMR in comparison to being a nobody; people tend to know he is a pro which means he is most likely to get support from his team mates most of the time (I know this because I have watched enough streams by these players). So unless we all go pro, there is no way, things are gonna work that well for us.

Please tell me how your skill level is at 4k but you are still in 2k.

[Hex: Event is Misery]

tl;dr


Essentially: OP wants level for MMR to be higher, or for levels to be based off of hours played.

People who go into MMR at 13 are screwed from get-go. They will get their 0K MMR and be stuck there forever.
So I'd advise you to not give a ♥♥♥♥ about noobs in Ranked. If you're good, they will never concern you.

[DarthTigger™ || ダースティガー™]

Originally posted by Pieeer1:

Originally posted by DarthTigger™:

Unfortunately, I play from a country that has a lot of trolls (people who leave a game halfway - I happen to get this a lot regardless of what MMR I'm at)

I'm currently below 3k MMR when my skill level was at 4K. Why and how do I get to this MMR? Because of (you guessed it) people who leave the game/connection issues, trolls and basically people who has no idea what they are doing. I get people with TBD at 3.9k MMR who has 130 hours of gameplay and cannot last hit to save his life or autoattacks at creeps all game.

The thing I'm pointing out is, shouldn't MMR mean something? If I'm getting players who are better in a normal game then I would in MMR than really, what is the whole point of MMR? Doesn't that just defeats the entire purpose?


I have seen streams of pro gamers play with a team exactly as what I have described and it didn't go well for him either. However, here is a stark comparison to being a pro in MMR in comparison to being a nobody; people tend to know he is a pro which means he is most likely to get support from his team mates most of the time (I know this because I have watched enough streams by these players). So unless we all go pro, there is no way, things are gonna work that well for us.

Please tell me how your skill level is at 4k but you are still in 2k.

My MMR was at 4k - just above 4K. And then it dropped down to below 3K due to players connection issues (usually when another server is down and flood other servers with their presence. Does that explain what you need to know?

Since you are just out here to humiliate rather than building up a legit comment, I'm going to refuse replying you unless you actually give a more constructive comment instead of being another ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with no genuine concern. I do not have the need to justify to you about anything just in case you didn't know.