To people thinking "Mid should always gank the sidelanes"

[Broco]

This is plainly wrong. I recently got flamed a lot for not ganking the sidelanes when playing Storm Spirit.

Just so you know, there is a reason for heroes being called Carry or not. Storm Spirit is a typical Mid hero who is considered to be a "2", meaning he is a carry and needs the 2nd most farm after the hardcarry who farms the safelane, guarded by 1 or 2 supports, 3 being the offlaner, 4 being a support who needs a key item (e.g. an Earth Shaker or Sand King who need a Blink dagger) and the 5 being the ward b1tch (Crystal Maiden, Mirana, etc.).

Normally, both supports can and should be roaming mid to disturb the enemy mid hero.

This does not mean that the mid hero shouldn't attack if the enemy team pressure a tower or go for an easy kill, this just means that it's WAY more valuable for the team if your mid SS (or Sniper or whatever) farms up his key items and even stays there if your lanes aren't working THAT well.

Especially at higher skill levels a ganking mid hero always requires smoke, which in return delays his farm. There ARE mid heroes however who should gank sidelanes, prime example is Pudge because he is just level dependent and not farm dependent (meaning, once he hits level 7 he has a max range hook + his ult which should result in a kill if you land a hook). Same goes for a Nyx mid, etc.

Still, those heroes need a certain level, so complaining about a level 4 Pudge not ganking is just pathetic.

So just chill and let your mid carry farm unless you really need help because of getting ganked by the whole enemy team or there is a guaranteed kill opportunity.

[A Street Sweeper]

引用自 Broco：

引用自 Deadbubble：

There are two types of mid: farming mids and ganking mids. If you go mid Storm Spirit, you better have a damn good reason for not ganking.

Yes, getting my Orchid up.
My argument:
ID: 1412310481 (Storm 31-1-12)
ID: 1414051454 (Storm 30-8-13, got flamed a lot for not ganking after the last 2 picks were 2 additional carries).

That is a normal skill game though, I'm not surprised if people were expecting you to gank. Also in that bracket people almost always run 2 1 2. The set up where the supports roam and gank with mid fixed sort of requires 3 1 1 set up.

I agree with you though, and the ideal would be SS staying mid until orchid or bloodstone is up. But my issue is when people say this and let the sidelanes get massacred and tower dived whilst they camp mid and don't even pressure the tower. Then 20 mins later all chat "gg troll/jugg/pa" can't carry when the mid isn't able to go 31-1-12.

[Broco]

引用自 Dr Taco Monster：

That is a normal skill game though, I'm not surprised if people were expecting you to gank. Also in that bracket people almost always run 2 1 2. The set up where the supports roam and gank with mid fixed sort of requires 3 1 1 set up.

I agree with you though, and the ideal would be SS staying mid until orchid or bloodstone is up. But my issue is when people say this and let the sidelanes get massacred and tower dived whilst they camp mid and don't even pressure the tower. Then 20 mins later all chat "gg troll/jugg/pa" can't carry when the mid isn't able to go 31-1-12.

That was exactly my point, of course I carry a tp (I get bottle and then TP+boots 2nd) in case something goes really bad on the sidelanes but in those games I mentioned I totally shut down mid, thus effectively preventing ganks on sidelanes, still got flamed.

[A Street Sweeper]

引用自 Broco：

That was exactly my point, of course I carry a tp (I get bottle and then TP+boots 2nd) in case something goes really bad on the sidelanes but in those games I mentioned I totally shut down mid, thus effectively preventing ganks on sidelanes, still got flamed.

Yep that's why I said I agree with you. Just wanted to make the point that mid stays mid no matter what isn't a great idea either. And I see this at least as often as what you're talking about.

EDIT: Oh and the vaaaast majority of people who flame have no idea what they're talking about so I wouldn't sweat it. Just makes it all the more sweet when you say:
-----> Scoreboard

[Myst?c]

引用自 Broco：

引用自 Deadbubble：

There are two types of mid: farming mids and ganking mids. If you go mid Storm Spirit, you better have a damn good reason for not ganking.

Yes, getting my Orchid up.
My argument:
ID: 1412310481 (Storm 31-1-12)
ID: 1414051454 (Storm 30-8-13, got flamed a lot for not ganking after the last 2 picks were 2 additional carries).

you can gank pre orchid, you have a crap ton of slow, if you have mana, you can slow, also every 3 seconds you can nuke, early game 2-3 remanetns and acouple of auto attacks with the slow will get a kill, a kill can equal 4-6 last hits for the killer, and 2 each for any assits, congragulation you have effectivly doen 8-10 last hits in all by ganking

[A Street Sweeper]

引用自 blade.blaster56745：

you can gank pre orchid, you have a crap ton of slow, if you have mana, you can slow, also every 3 seconds you can nuke, early game 2-3 remanetns and acouple of auto attacks with the slow will get a kill, a kill can equal 4-6 last hits for the killer, and 2 each for any assits, congragulation you have effectivly doen 8-10 last hits in all by ganking

That's sort of the point though. 4-6 last hits is a little more than one creep wave. Waves spawn every 30 secs, so if it takes longer than that it's not a net gain for storm. Worse if he doesn't get the kill, worse still if he dies and/or the gank is not successful. Couple that with any required downtime for regenerating health/mana and ganking is almost always not worth the mid's time.. Which is why you should be doing it only to stop lanes from getting wrecked IMO.

The timing for BS or orchid is the single most important thing for SS. Like I said before, ideally he doesn't leave mid until he gets 1 of these. Most of the time as OP said too you're better off ganking the mid opposite than the side lanes.

[76561198177432155]

You get the solo farm, you get the quicker levels, if you arent ganking , Im reporting. simple enough. You can try and rationailze all you like, if you are a lazy mid hero and all about your farm then you can spend some time in LPQ.

[A Street Sweeper]

引用自 ~ ~：

You get the solo farm, you get the quicker levels, if you arent ganking , Im reporting. simple enough. You can try and rationailze all you like, if you are a lazy mid hero and all about your farm then you can spend some time in LPQ.

If you actually do this then you're a tool. People playing the game differently to how you want should not be a reportable offence. Especially when it's actually a good strategy most of the time and you are wrong. Wish there was a way for the system to backlash against people who abuse the reports like this.

[Deadbubble]

引用自 ~ ~：

You get the solo farm, you get the quicker levels, if you arent ganking , Im reporting. simple enough. You can try and rationailze all you like, if you are a lazy mid hero and all about your farm then you can spend some time in LPQ.

Ganking as a mid isn't always a viable choice.

[Rabbidscool]

This is actually my annoying problem when using Storm Spirit on mid, i got easily flamed by my teammates for not ganking, CONSIDERING, i got ganked on mid 2 times and the supports didn't care about my lane being in danger. First world problem that my last 2 pickers is carries and it has only 1 support. This is almost all in SEA matches.

Pudge is a mid hero and a ganker, and yes he does need a lot of ganker, but a level 4 pudge and the side lanes hero demand a gank help is really pethatic. And that's why i got 3 days of mute for not ganking with pudge in lvl 4. People seriously need to play patiently and farm or stay safe in their side lanes rather flaming each others.

Annoyingly enough when someone pick Invoker mid, 3 or 4 heroes will instantly flamed for not ganking in lvl 3. I mean what? Yes Coldsnap is a decent stopper but seriously?

[Yuriverse]

引用自 FrazerJC：

It depends on how the game is going, really.

A good rule of thumb is:

• If the sidelanes are struggling but mid is doing really well, then if Mid is playing a ganking hero they should do some ganking to help their other lanes.
  
  
• If the sidelanes are doing really well but Mid is struggling, then the support(s) from those side lanes should assist Mid.

this.

also Storm Spirit is a ganker hero he can ensure a kill when he reaches level 6

[Vlad Crepeș]

Wait, you were playing Storm Spirit. A ganking carry who is supposed to snowball... and you didn't gank? Unless your lanes were fine and you wanted to trouble the enemy mid lane... but apart from that, that is just playing wrong. If you were talking about Morph mid or Medusa mid not ganking then your on to something but playing Storm Spirit and not ganking?!

[The Coal Man]

引用自 Fijut：

generally what makes a hero a mid hero is the ability to gank if they reach level 6 earlier than the rest of the team. That's one reason anyway.

And Storm Spirit is built for ganking regardless - you fail if you dont gank lol

few exceptions of just the hero weirdly works great there. Like medusa or aa. Either an ability that does a lot of damage 1v1 or an ult thats great to rush for early map control/ganking. AA ult and mirana ult come to mind, but storm too.

Heroes like pudge, storm, or lina shouldnt be hanging around mid after 6 though, they are extremely good gankers and really on that to be good endgame. If storms just farming mid thats probably money and xp he is losing and the enemy is gaining, the exception is if your team just will not assist a gank or the enemy went wild with wards. Storm not ganking after 6 is basically legion commander refusing to ult because he wants to farm more. Not saying you have to lurk in jungle waiting for them, but a tp to a lane where you can easily finish a hero that your allies in the lane cant, and when the enemy isnt expecting you, is always worthwhile.

引用自 ~ ~：

You get the solo farm, you get the quicker levels, if you arent ganking , Im reporting. simple enough. You can try and rationailze all you like, if you are a lazy mid hero and all about your farm then you can spend some time in LPQ.

that being said, this guy is a flat out douche and really doesnt understand how dota works.

[Psychotic Man]

Look, no one says mid heroes need to gank only and must gank the moment they are called, but many of them are gankers. Even the position 2 mid heroes like QoP, Storm and Lina have enough lock down/mobility and fire power to destroy an enemy if they get a level advantage.

To me, mid has these duties:

• Gank a lane that is doing bad, if you are doing well and have the proper runes to gank (I won't expect SF to gank at all unless he had haste rune) and your hero actually can gank.
  
• Keep the enemy mid under control and either stop them from ganking and farming, or punish them when they go to gank (like take the tower if you are pugna or DP).
  
• Farm up your cores by level 11, you will be the highest level during team fights and you need your core if you want to do anything.

If you are a sniper or SF in mid lane, I know I won't get a gank from you nor do I expect one, but keep the enemy mid laner from snowballing, if you feed them then don't ♥♥♥♥ talk that side lanes put undue pressure on mid lane.


Also, if you are a QoP who rushes maelstrom into miojnir and doesn't gank side lanes even once, then stfu. (I actually had a match like this, I don't think this mid laner did anything right)

[Broco]

引用自 Bazookagofer：

Wait, you were playing Storm Spirit. A ganking carry who is supposed to snowball... and you didn't gank? Unless your lanes were fine and you wanted to trouble the enemy mid lane... but apart from that, that is just playing wrong. If you were talking about Morph mid or Medusa mid not ganking then your on to something but playing Storm Spirit and not ganking?!

No, it's not playing wrong. Watch those replays I provided, in both I didn't gank alot early but shut down the enemy mid pretty hard, thus preventing HIM from ganking effectively and shutting him down, while gaining really good farm. Of course I ganked occasionally even once before Orchid but hell, normally a good Orchid timing is around 12-14 minutes (after bottle and treads) and I ALWAYS carry a tp in case another lane really needs help.

But you have to understand that ganking doesn't help you snowballing as much as getting your key items up. Unlike Pudge who gains Str points for killing, there is no point in risking losing farm as Storm because he is very item dependent as Dr Taco Monster said.

I got reported a lot recently in the mid stages of the game for not ganking ENOUGH in pubs. I even ganked 1-2 times when I was sure it would definitely result in a kill (e.g. when I got a regen rune after level 6 or a haste or dd rune) but if I don't get the kill I effectively lose a lot of gold, which in turn reduces my carry potential a lot.

The funny thing is that in most of the games I got reported people apologized in the end of the game after we won, still didn't help because you cannot take reports back.

This is by the way the reason I think the report system is flawed, there are a lot of dumb people out there who report you just because you don't play like they want you to play or even report an enemy for stomping them (happened in that 30-1 game).

I'm currently muted and in LPQ and all I did was argue with my teammates whether ganking is good or not.

I think I will stop playing pubs soon and only play ranked with friends who know how I play and work together as a team instead of relying solely on me as mid doing all that ganking.

The matchmaking, the report system and the community are seriously flawed at the moment, pubs are a horror to play 80% of the time.

[Tundra]

i read 2 santences and i decieded you are a noob. if you are not ganking with mid storm you deserve to be flamed