Heroes that counter Eachother

[Apocalypse]

Well certain heroes counter eachother.
For instance, Techies is mostly picked when there's a Weaver in the other team. And a Weaver with a gem is pretty hard counter for Techies.

Another one would be Axe with Blademail counters PA. And a PA with BKB counters Axe quite hard.


Anything else?

[Apocalypse]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Milky:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coleron:

this discussion is somewhat silly. All heroes counter another hero, thats what the game is built on. Theres 110 characters, so theres over a hundred flat out counters, with a ton more if you count items and semi counters. Only way to know most of them is to actually play the heroes involved.

Also have to back up Apocalypse, medusa is my 1 of my most played heroes with a 4-1 winrate, and I beat pl horribly. Ton of free mana from bouncing snakes off his illusions (around 800 per snake), his mana drain is horrible compared to how much int medusa gets, splitshot 1 hits illusions, along with maelstrom or snake, and medusa is litterally about 30x tankier. If anyone is willing to try a 1v1 with 6 slotted pl and medusa, id be really happy to try it. My only experience has been in game where farm is varied.

The only thing pl really counters is wk, most other heroes can stomp him hard. And wk still wins with a mjolnir or blademail. All pl does lategame is drain mana. All he does early game is farm.

Also, anything with blademail counters pa. Thats an item, not a hero. Pa can easily 1 hit herself from blademail, axe isnt needed.

Clearly not seen a properly built PL then... If you think all he does is drain mana. Give him a daedelus.

Or we could just say you havent seen a properly built Medusa. So, that kind of an argument is pointless.

[The Coal Man]

^ ive played both, i know what a properly built pl does. Medusa wins unless theres a creative new build. He beats wraith king and a few other heroes that either have horrible mana or only do damage to 1 hero. Everything else pretty much stomps him hard.

[Apocalypse]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ©Nire Johnc:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Apocalypse:

Well there are heroes that can take Aghanim Doom and keep fighting in late stages, eg: Dusa.
If you get Doomed, just kill Doom fast.

even if mana shield is on, doom still does its full damage right? (just making sure)

I had to check my replays to confirm this. Mana Shield still works even over Aghanim Doom.
The health and mana lost are just too small and are quickly regenerated.

Match ID: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1219555467

[HEX: LocalLadyboy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Apocalypse:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Milky:

BKB does nothing for PA against Axe.

Really? Would you care to explain?

asheron's call goes through spell immunity, meaning, bkb won't stop PA from attacking axe during the skills duration.

[Apocalypse]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jannina.SingSing<3:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Apocalypse:

Really? Would you care to explain?

asheron's call goes through spell immunity, meaning, bkb won't stop PA from attacking axe during the skills duration.

Berserker's Call. Making the hero with one of the highest damage output forcefully attack you is a winning strategy? Yea, the +40 armor,PA has a tonne of armor being an Agility hero, so it's not that effective you know.

[plywdxa]

all the games have anti pickers online ,you find them waiting all the time to do that, play lan or captin mode better. the meaning of counter based on team not anti picks like picking anti mage vs storm spirit or jug vs void and pa or bounty vs riki it is just waste of time to see all low standered anti picks who fail to his role because he tought he can counter 1 hero then die and feed the other it is just waste of our time. this the why i stopped playing this game with this picks system.

[Jehenoch]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Apocalypse:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jannina.SingSing<3:

asheron's call goes through spell immunity, meaning, bkb won't stop PA from attacking axe during the skills duration.

Berserker's Call. Making the hero with one of the highest damage output forcefully attack you is a winning strategy? Yea, the +40 armor,PA has a tonne of armor being an Agility hero, so it's not that effective you know.

in the lategame, berserker's call is meant to lockdown one attacking hero like jugg PA FV to protect your nuker friends, then the nukers can freely shotdown those attackers

yay

[Jehenoch]

oh and thanks for the doom on dusa

man now how do you fully counter medusa anyway....shucks

[A Street Sweeper]

AM and skywrath? early on that silence breaks AM, but later am just waits for sky to ult then he can blow up the whole team.

[The Coal Man]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ©Nire Johnc:

oh and thanks for the doom on dusa

man now how do you fully counter medusa anyway....shucks

you dont. Her and spectre are ment to be uncounterable endgame, you counter them by not letting them get the feed they horribly need. A hero like am or invoker(emp) can hurt medusa a lot more than most endgame, but they still wont beat her 1v1. Troll warlord is the only thing I can think of that could possibly win a fight 1v1 later in the game, but if medusa has skadi she can just kite troll or ult him.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dr Taco Monster:

AM and skywrath? early on that silence breaks AM, but later am just waits for sky to ult then he can blow up the whole team.

In my experience sky still wins endgame. Hes got plenty of mana and lots of mana regen, and am cant ever really survive a skywrath ability combo. he also has a lot more movement speed and a kiting slow. Not to mention ancient seal is the 2nd best anti am ability since it prevents blink for so long. Only thing better is doom.

[A Street Sweeper]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coleron:

In my experience sky still wins endgame. Hes got plenty of mana and lots of mana regen, and am cant ever really survive a skywrath ability combo. he also has a lot more movement speed and a kiting slow. Not to mention ancient seal is the 2nd best anti am ability since it prevents blink for so long. Only thing better is doom.

Really? In my experience as soon as am gets a manta it is pretty over for sky (have played on both sides of this), and that's without even getting bkb. It also just means that sky can basically never use his ult unless he knows there is no chance of am ulting him.

[The Coal Man]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dr Taco Monster:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coleron:

In my experience sky still wins endgame. Hes got plenty of mana and lots of mana regen, and am cant ever really survive a skywrath ability combo. he also has a lot more movement speed and a kiting slow. Not to mention ancient seal is the 2nd best anti am ability since it prevents blink for so long. Only thing better is doom.

Really? In my experience as soon as am gets a manta it is pretty over for sky (have played on both sides of this), and that's without even getting bkb. It also just means that sky can basically never use his ult unless he knows there is no chance of am ulting him.

I like to get ghost sceptre so it just depends how quickly I can find the real 1. Ghost sceptre generally lasts plenty long for me to find the real 1 and kill him. Or I just wait for him to pop it, manta is a pretty big part of am's build and he uses it often. Fun idea on skywrath that i use occasionally that can seriously backfire but makes you really strong if they have crowd control, mask of madness. Whenever you use it you hit the max movement speed whcih also helps against am as long as you disable his blink.

[Darth Mark]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Apocalypse:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ©Nire Johnc:

any agility heroes should stay the hell away from teamfight whether its early mid or lategame once they got aghs-upgraded doom

No countdown is plain terrifying

Well there are heroes that can take Aghanim Doom and keep fighting in late stages, eg: Dusa.
If you get Doomed, just kill Doom fast.

I know. I literally specified that that kind of hero can withstand it late game. How did you not read that?

[Angelfire_Snake]

To Apocalypse and Milky: Please take your fight to a 1v1 game so that the rest can discuss the main topic here rather than listen to your sissy bul*sh*t about who is Dota-smart...jeez.

[Circlesho]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Apocalypse:

And a Weaver with a gem is pretty hard counter for Techies

Untrue, unless the Techies is a noob, the Gem is useless

There's something called the Fog of War, place your mines up on hills and boom, weaver and his gem are dead because he couldnt see the bombs through the fog