Legion Commander: Lane Vs Jungle

[Darth Mark]

I was wondering if anyone has done the math on the effectiveness of legion jungling.

Before doing it myself, I would be interested if anyone has worked out any sort of information, even if it is just effective item/skill builds for the jungle.

I'm thinking of jungling a few practice games with Legion, to find out roughly her GPM. Possibly using something like what level/time it is until she gets a blink (skipping boots), or what her net worth is and time by the time she becomes level 6 and is able to search for a duel.

Also, what items should a jungle Legion typically get? Should she rush boots and get a blink? Go straight for treads, or phase?

And what is the most effective way of jungling? Should she go for easy camps first? Stack camps to clear with her Q? Should she even put any levels in her Q?

And what skill/item build does she typically go for when in the lane?

Any knowledge you guys have here would be great :)

[Raven]

Originally posted by Mark, a musical sasquatch:

I was wondering if anyone has done the math on the effectiveness of legion jungling.

Before doing it myself, I would be interested if anyone has worked out any sort of information, even if it is just effective item/skill builds for the jungle.

I'm thinking of jungling a few practice games with Legion, to find out roughly her GPM. Possibly using something like what level/time it is until she gets a blink (skipping boots), or what her net worth is and time by the time she becomes level 6 and is able to search for a duel.

Also, what items should a jungle Legion typically get? Should she rush boots and get a blink? Go straight for treads, or phase?

And what is the most effective way of jungling? Should she go for easy camps first? Stack camps to clear with her Q? Should she even put any levels in her Q?

And what skill/item build does she typically go for when in the lane?

Any knowledge you guys have here would be great :)

PSA: All of this is MY OPINION and MY EXPERIENCE. You may think differently, and I'll agree to disagree with you if you want to bicker. Remember: Opinions are like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥; everyone has one.

So, here's my 2 cents on Legion Jungle: It's strong as hell, ASSUMING the player plays to her strongest strengths, which is singling out targets for easy damage and being an incredible anti-escape semi-carry anti-caster initiator with a great nuke and great sustain.

Playstyle best suited for LC Jungle: Assassin-style early and mid, surprise-initiator late. Rush Shadow Blade or Blink Dagger and gank actively. (I recommend SB if you don't want to rely on your team or are looking for a hybrid escape/engage item)

Skill build: E > W > E > Q > E > R > E (Max Q then W after E)

Item build: It varies wildly depending on the enemy team. However, if you're really worried about your gold income, just get a Hand of Midas and farm like a mofo. If you want some durability, HoT, Shiva's, AC, and Skadi all provide durability as well as some nice side benefits. If you want damage: MKB, Moon Shard, Deso, Daed, Silver's (Should have either this or BD in every game), and Abyssal all provide great damage (Daed being my favorite 4th-6th item because you'll just make every enemy's rear-end more sore than a full-body massage of poison ivy) while being relevant in pretty much every situation. For boots, you will probalby want to choose either Phase (chasing + damage) or Power Treads (Minor health, damage, and attack speed increase) and swap to Boots of Travel after you get 6-slotted.

I can't really cover all of her strengths in a forum post. I have a guide written on it that's a little more in-depth.

[Darth Mark]

Thanks, I really apprecate it! Feel free to link me the guide, and I'll check it out :)

So when you jungle, do you ever use your Q? I would have thought maxing your W would be more effective for both jungling and getting an early couple of duels, but I'm hardly an expert.

The idea of getting a Midas is also interesting, but I like playing Legion as an early snowballer, so something like an armlet and fighting early has worked wonders for me before. Especially when combined with a hero like Lina or Skywrath (played by a friend).

I'm thinking of playing a jungle Legion with a friend playing a nuker in the solo safelane position. That way I will rush a blink or something, and then when we are both level 6 I can go in and get an easy duel, possibly with another kill. Then just keep doing that when we have our ults up, while farming the jungle inbetween fights.

I really like the idea of getting SB, but I feel like it would delay my early duels. Currently I would skip brown boots entirely and get a 7 or 8 minute blink. If you get SB instead, what item progression do you follow? Would you usually get brown boots or/and treads before the SB?

[A Street Sweeper]

First I'll echo chicken wing's sentiment that the following is just my opinion and I'm an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (or something like that).

I personally don't think jungle LC is very strong, it should always be slower than farming in lane imo. That's not to say it's not at all viable, I just think that she's actually a pretty good laner and an average jungler.

I'd never get a naked blink, always power treads first for me, or at least brown boots. You have to buy brown boots first if you are jungling for sure, the extra speed makes a big difference to your farm.

I also would only get shadow blade on her if Silver Edge was going to be a great pickup for the game (i.e against PA or FV). The reason is that having to use press the attack when breaking invis means they have a lot of time to react and you miss out on the bonus from SB and SE, or you don't use it and miss out on press. It also takes more time to come on line than blink obviously.

I only ever play LC comboed with something like a skywrath. BS is also really good and he's a much better jungler, so if you go safelane LC you can get him to come in and help with kills.

Depending on the game and how well I'm snowballing I'll either go for minus armour (deso solar crest AC sort of thing) if I'm doing well, or I'll go for tankyness if I'm not getting a lot of bonus dmg. I prefer minus armour to something like crit. Both take good advantage of high physical dmg, but the minus armour causes everyone to do more dmg to your target, increasing the chance it will die.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Mark, a musical sasquatch:

Thanks, I really apprecate it! Feel free to link me the guide, and I'll check it out :)

So when you jungle, do you ever use your Q? I would have thought maxing your W would be more effective for both jungling and getting an early couple of duels, but I'm hardly an expert.

The idea of getting a Midas is also interesting, but I like playing Legion as an early snowballer, so something like an armlet and fighting early has worked wonders for me before. Especially when combined with a hero like Lina or Skywrath (played by a friend).

I'm thinking of playing a jungle Legion with a friend playing a nuker in the solo safelane position. That way I will rush a blink or something, and then when we are both level 6 I can go in and get an easy duel, possibly with another kill. Then just keep doing that when we have our ults up, while farming the jungle inbetween fights.

I really like the idea of getting SB, but I feel like it would delay my early duels. Currently I would skip brown boots entirely and get a 7 or 8 minute blink. If you get SB instead, what item progression do you follow? Would you usually get brown boots or/and treads before the SB?

OK, so, here's my #1 rule for jungling as Legion: DO NOT USE YOUR Q ON THE JUNGLE CREEPS! The damage is low early on and only gains about 14 per Creep. So, 40 base + 3 creeps = a crappy 82 points of damage. 82 is barely above the normal AA damage you have at level 1 (Like 20 points-ish above, maybe even less), just to put it in perspective.

Second, an Armlet is amazing on her because of her passive being able to sustain the health drain. I like building it as well, but SB/BD takes priority.

Third, ignoring brown Boots for your initiation is what I recommend you do unless you find yourself powerfarming at a rediculous rate. Also, Shadow Blade/Blink Dagger is your key to early Duels.

Fourth, here's the link to the guide: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=404552309

Fifth, feel free to add me. I'm always looking to discuss/play.

Edit: By the way, I realize a distinct lack of capital A's in the guide. My explanation is that Dota 2, for some reason, thinks that LeftShift + A = Delete all writing in the guide page. The "Phantom" I'm referring to is Phantom Assassin with her 50% Evasion.

Edit 2: Made a mistake of confusing the Movespeed buff with the damage bonus on her Q. Woops! Her Q is still garbage for clearing camps, though.

[Darth Mark]

Thanks, I'll check it out!

I just did a practice game, and I was able to get level 6 by 7:00, and a blink by 8:00 (skipping boots).

The xp/min is pretty similar to what you get by being in lane, however it starts slower and starts catching up later.

The gold/min is decent, but you can get far more in lane, but it really goes down to how well you last hit. Full gold in 8 minutes (including passive gold) by being in lane is 2900, far exceeding the 2300 I had by that point. However if I last hit 2 melee and the one ranged in each wave (beyond my ability to reliably do so) I will get the 2300 gold by 8 minutes.

I think jungling is better than laning solely because of my inability to relably last hit more than 3/4 creeps per wave, and in my MMR I will be largely unharassed in the jungle.

I'll send you an invite :) What server do you usually play on? I play on Aus, and haven't tried any others. I expect my ping to be pretty high elsewhere though

[Darth Mark]

@Taco, thanks for the input :)

[The Great Maximus]

my vote on lane!)

[The Bus That Couldnt Slow Down]

lane , soul ring , 1st skill , spam , woop woop woop woop woop wooop

[Mr Gonko]

Here you have the math for diffrent lane/jungle presence.
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/legion-commander

[lulborne]

Not even a contest... lane. I would prefer Mid or Offlane. While safe is pretty good for her as well, I don't think it fits her play style that often because you are supposed to get duels, not afk farming. Leave it to someone that might requires more last hits than you early on. LC jungle, in my experience is extremely inneffective.

First, when jungling, before anything else, something that goes beyond the head of those junglers, especially the LC ones is, you don't ask only about how fast you are going to farm your stuff, but how the lanes will look like if you jungle. If you don't have an offlaner (you can be one), a proper mid hero (LC mid is good as well) and maybe a good carry to safelane (still, a better choice than jungle), why are you even going to the jungle in the first place? You are just screwing up your team composition (if you asked jungle, first, that's somewhat ok, but not that much if you picked LC for that. there are far better junglers).

Compared to heroes like Enchantress, Chen, Enigma... She won't farm as fast as them on lvl 1 and you won't be able to offer nothing before your lvl 6, which can come slower in the jungle than in the lane. She doesn't have anything to lockdown her target until she gets her duel at lvl 6. With Enchantress, Chen, Enigma, heck even CM, you can gank the offlaner early and give an advantage for whoever is laning in the safelane. It's not just about "Oh! Look how fast I can farm in the jungle!", but also about when you will be able to contribute.

Don't skip boots over blink. Get at least brown boots before. If you are doing well, leave it as it is and farm your other core items. Maybe you can upgraded it to BoT later.

Rather than jungling because you are bad in last hitting, practice your last hitting instead. LC's base damage is very high. If you have problem last hitting with her, you will have problems last hitting with other carries too. This reasoning is like Chen always going Dagon because he can't micro his creeps very well. Work on your limitations to play better.

Another thing, if you are really serious in jeorpadizing your team with jungling, is to pay attention to the enemy heroes on the enemy team. LC is faster than most heroes, but she doesn't have anything to escape other than extra move speed of overwhelming odds and her dispel of moment of courage. If you are ganked while jungling, with stuns and stuff, chances are, you won't survive. Whenever I see an enemy LC jungling, if I'm laning in the offlane, you can be sure that this LC will have a very bad game early on. Bloodseeker is especially good in making sure that LC pays for her jungling ways (I would argue that he works well against any "jungler" that isn't the ones that I mentioned).

All in all, LC jungle is pretty bad and there are better heroes to use there instead of her. Last patch made her jungling better, but that's not saying much. It's like saying that the dog's crap is smelling less bad than before and you know this still isn't that good.

Well, good luck whatever you decide to do. Sorry for the huge text, but hope something there helps in some way.