so whats the point with heroes being radiant/dire?

[JolyJew СлаваУкраине]

in the original dota it made sense because it was set in the Warcraft universe where you have the baddies - the scourge and the good fellas - the sentinels. so it was natural for graceful and noble heroes to be the sentinel and evil and nasty creatures to belong to the scourge.

but in the new dota2 universe it makes no sense, the lore never implies that radiant or dire are good, and in fact it's accepted that both sides are evil.
the heroes belonging to each side make no sense either, if radiant is supposed to be the good, why do they have the clearly nasty troll warlord and sven?
if dire are bad why do they have pleasent heroes like lyanthrope or magnus? hell, even some of the nastier heroes are just neutral and/or misunderstood like pudge or witch doctor?

so really, wouldn't it be better to just get rid of the whole radiant and dire heroes and make all heroes belong to just a single pool?


becuase right now it's just plain stupid

[JolyJew СлаваУкраине]

引用自 VimesCarrot：

引用自 Jolly Jew：

so really, wouldn't it be better to just get rid of the whole radiant and dire heroes and make all heroes belong to just a single pool?

Can you point to me where, in-game, the game distinguishes between radiant and dire? Because I never found it...

And you're right about Pudge not being evil. I see nothing evil in Pudge at all.

the hero selection screen and library that seperate the heroes according to their so called 'faction'

umm were you sarcastoc about pudge?

[VimesCarrot]

引用自 Jolly Jew：

引用自 VimesCarrot：

Can you point to me where, in-game, the game distinguishes between radiant and dire? Because I never found it...

And you're right about Pudge not being evil. I see nothing evil in Pudge at all.

the hero selection screen and library that seperate the heroes according to their so called 'faction'

umm were you sarcastoc about pudge?

No sarcasm, Pudge cuts up corpses to feed birds and has a hunger for flesh, but he goes to battlefields to find it - perfectly acceptable, not evil.

Come on, he is deliberately avoiding murdering people, going out of his way to put himself in danger to satiate his craving without harming innocent people. He is one of the most morally pure characters in the game.

As for the selection screens - yes, they separate heroes, but there is no "radiant" or "dire" label on either side. It's separated for people who like to think that way, but if you aren't aware of the radiant/dire split, then there isn't one. I see nothing that definitely states the split as bering canon.

[Fantastic Fwoosh]

I just assumed that all the heroes just did it because the radiant and dire just let them volunteer into it or offered something wonderous in return.

It doesn't make a difference who goes where, since they all seem to be doing it for thier own reasons, as to explain in many extracts of lore, all heroes have some kind of wish or goal. Some might just do it for kicks or just for a 'noble' cause. And the Radiant/Dire might be able to accommodate those wishes.

Simple, kill the other team, get a free wish (sounds a bit like dragon ball, excusing the reference)

[VimesCarrot]

引用自 The Fantastic Fwoosh!：

I just assumed that all the heroes just did it because the radiant and dire just let them volunteer into it or offered something wonderous in return.

It doesn't make a difference who goes where, since they all seem to be doing it for thier own reasons, as to explain in many extracts of lore, all heroes have some kind of wish or goal. Some might just do it for kicks or just for a 'noble' cause. And the Radiant/Dire might be able to accommodate those wishes.

Simple, kill the other team, get a free wish (sounds a bit like dragon ball, excusing the reference)

That's basically how it works, and is, I would imagine, exactly why there is no explicit divide any more.

[Anthropodlogist]

They are very conservative about what they do and don't change in dota 2, but I have no clue why they decided to keep the sides. Both sides do have different looks though, radiant heroes tend to be in very heroic outfits, while dire tend to have more inimidating looks

[JolyJew СлаваУкраине]

引用自 VimesCarrot：

引用自 Jolly Jew：

the hero selection screen and library that seperate the heroes according to their so called 'faction'

umm were you sarcastoc about pudge?

No sarcasm, Pudge cuts up corpses to feed birds and has a hunger for flesh, but he goes to battlefields to find it - perfectly acceptable, not evil.

Come on, he is deliberately avoiding murdering people, going out of his way to put himself in danger to satiate his craving without harming innocent people. He is one of the most morally pure characters in the game.


As for the selection screens - yes, they separate heroes, but there is no "radiant" or "dire" label on either side. It's separated for people who like to think that way, but if you aren't aware of the radiant/dire split, then there isn't one. I see nothing that definitely states the split as bering canon.

yeah that's a very good explantion, i don't think there is no way to put it other than what you said, makes him much more likable.

and yeah, when you put it like that, the faction separtion is never actually brought up in the game, so it is really just for those who liked the "scourge/sentinel in dota1 from some reason.

[Iron Breaker]

because red team vs blue team..... its valve

[Deepbluediver]

引用自 Jolly Jew：

i dont really care how mentally scarred anti-mage is, going from town to town murdering mages just because they are mages is downright evil.

Where do you see that this is what he does?
It says in his backstory that he's sworn to destroy the "Dead God's magic users" and "to put an end to magic altogether". Nowhere does it say that he goes around murdering people for gits and shiggles.

as for pudge, just because he is gross doesn't mean he is evil, his lore simply says that his job made him carve for human flesh, that doesn't mean he goes randomnly killing people, he just participates in a battlefield where it's plentiful.

Yeah, but you asserted that he was "good", not that he was neutral. He's apparently such a terrifying sight that even the other undead fear him (Even those who are beyond fearing the Reaper, fear the Butcher.)

It seems odd to me that you are willing to excuse the guy who likes to chow down on fresh bodyparts as "just the way they made him" while condemning the character who's on a crusade to avenge a bunch of pacifistic monks.

and there are plenty more examples. timbersaw is just a paranoid that destroys trees, tinker wants to show the world his destructive new contraptions, troll is a plain ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that like killing everyone, and so on and so forth.

radiant and dire both have a noticble mix of evil and good. so seperating the roster to different sides is silly.

I agree that both sides contain examples of characters who are probably best described as "neutral", which is why the original game (I think) actually had a 3rd neutral faction. But for the characters that ARE good or evil, there is a definite bias in which way the various moralities tend to swing.

Which is why I said before that it's not really good vs. evil, so much as left vs. right- two factions in opposition. And some characters ended up on one side or the other just because that was the less-worse option, or they've allied themselves with whoever advances "the greater good", or even just their personal vendetta best. It's really not that big a deal, I think, if you are willing to see it as a more complex setting with shades of grey, instead of just black and white.

[Skaliton]

引用自 jrocker314：

引用自 Colin：

They are richteous assassins, Bounty Hunter even has lines that reference bringing enemy heroes to justice and Riki's whole lore is about avenging his murdered family.

BH, Ok, I'll grant, justice is a radiant concept. But Riki? No. Revenge is an evil concept, logical though it may be, it is still highly immoral. And Lycan's backstory is way too close to riki's (both were princes whose fathers had been killed by enemies, and are out for vengeance) for me to split the two radiant and dire. I say they both go dire.

their lore is really nothing alike, riki's is based far more on being ignored being the middle child in a family which let him essentially become invisible

while lycan's is a ruler attempting to punish a noble for believing in "heresy" basically

yes they both have the same catalyst (family murdered) but there are only so many sets of lore

(really enigma/invoker are probably more similar based on two magic beings that are essentially immortal, one who made himself immortal/one who is questionably "god")

or slark/slardar their lore is basically two sides of the same coin (one the escaped prisoner, one the guard)

[VimesCarrot]

引用自 Skaliton：

(really enigma/invoker are probably more similar based on two magic beings that are essentially immortal, one who made himself immortal/one who is questionably "god")

Enigma is a god now, apparently

[Skaliton]

"In truth, Enigma is a mystery for whom the only true biography is description: he is a universal force, a consumer of worlds. He is a being of the void, at times corporeal, other times ethereal. A beast between the planes."

I'm not sure but that sounds pretty godly in my opinion

[VimesCarrot]

He's the fundamental of gravity. He's on a level with Chaos Knight, Keeper of the Light, and Io.

[achus93]

if you're going to call Enigma a god, then you might as well call the other 3 fundementals (and the ancients) gods....