What's wrong with Weaver and Mirana?

[A Street Sweeper]

Two heroes that I randomed recently that I haven't played much in a while. I had a blast on both of them. I played Weaver in an offlane duel lane where we dominated. I got an early linkin's into deso then daed and then the hero does so much damage whilst being very hard to pin down. I love that you don't even have to buy boots on him, giving you one extra slot than most heroes.

Mirana I played roaming support. I landed a lot of early long duration arrows, and built her full support (until an mkb right at the end). With a Linkin's pickup I was able to escape so many fights and toss an arrow back in when the rest of my team got their, and then help them stay alive with GG boots.

I love high mobility heroes like these guys, and I guess I'm wondering why they get no love in the pro scene. What exactly makes weaver so weak? His lane presence is good early, he is hard to kill, and he can haul out dps. Mirana has great tools and can make use of so little farm in a similar way to BH. I dunno, maybe BH just does her job better in most situations.

P.S I haven't actually looked at the numbers to see how often they get picked, but I watch a bit of DotA and haven't seen them in a long time.

[A Street Sweeper]

引用自 Artemix：

引用自 Dr Taco Monster：

Is this a serious comment? Do you think no boots is low mmr on brood as well?

One thing is to not buy boots the first few minutes of the game, another completely is to never buy boots.

If you never buy boots, you should revisit the basics.

Can you come up with a reason for this? Is it just something you feel is true? Have you ever tried no boots weaver, or watched Waga do it? Maybe I'd get travs late in the game, but I never needed them in this one.

There aren't many heroes that you can go bootless on, but weaver is certainly one of them.

[Path Of Pain]

引用自 Dr Taco Monster：

引用自 Artemix：

One thing is to not buy boots the first few minutes of the game, another completely is to never buy boots.

If you never buy boots, you should revisit the basics.

Can you come up with a reason for this? Is it just something you feel is true? Have you ever tried no boots weaver, or watched Waga do it? Maybe I'd get travs late in the game, but I never needed them in this one.

There aren't many heroes that you can go bootless on, but weaver is certainly one of them.

Because unless you have an unlimited amount of mana, your starting MS is hilariously low. And for 1400gold you will get a ton of MS + AS + stats.

I don't think going botless the entire game is smart.

[A Street Sweeper]

引用自 Artemix：

引用自 Dr Taco Monster：

Can you come up with a reason for this? Is it just something you feel is true? Have you ever tried no boots weaver, or watched Waga do it? Maybe I'd get travs late in the game, but I never needed them in this one.

There aren't many heroes that you can go bootless on, but weaver is certainly one of them.

Because unless you have an unlimited amount of mana, your starting MS is hilariously low. And for 1400gold you will get a ton of MS + AS + stats.

I don't think going botless the entire game is smart.

Except with aquila and linkin's you are able to cast shukuchi as much as you want. At max level it is 6 second cooldown with 4 sec duration. This means that when you are just moving around the map your boots have any effect on ms for only 33% of the time. Weaver also doesn't particularly need attack speed as he tends to fire off germinate, shukuchi and germinate again. And in terms of stats, well aquila is far better than PTs.

At least you tried to provide a reason this time rather than just being a smart ass.

[Path Of Pain]

引用自 Dr Taco Monster：

引用自 Artemix：

Because unless you have an unlimited amount of mana, your starting MS is hilariously low. And for 1400gold you will get a ton of MS + AS + stats.

I don't think going botless the entire game is smart.

Except with aquila and linkin's you are able to cast shukuchi as much as you want. At max level it is 6 second cooldown with 4 sec duration. This means that when you are just moving around the map your boots have any effect on ms for only 33% of the time. Weaver also doesn't particularly need attack speed as he tends to fire off germinate, shukuchi and germinate again. And in terms of stats, well aquila is far better than PTs.

At least you tried to provide a reason this time rather than just being a smart ass.

Well, I still think its cheap for what it provides.

I was watching some pro matches where Weaver was used, and in everyone they buy travels or threads.

[A Street Sweeper]

引用自 Artemix：

引用自 Dr Taco Monster：

Except with aquila and linkin's you are able to cast shukuchi as much as you want. At max level it is 6 second cooldown with 4 sec duration. This means that when you are just moving around the map your boots have any effect on ms for only 33% of the time. Weaver also doesn't particularly need attack speed as he tends to fire off germinate, shukuchi and germinate again. And in terms of stats, well aquila is far better than PTs.

At least you tried to provide a reason this time rather than just being a smart ass.

Well, I still think its cheap for what it provides.

I was watching some pro matches where Weaver was used, and in everyone they buy travels or threads.

In a game where I'm not playing from in front I would probably pick up PTs as well, because you are not going to be slot restricted when you can't afford items, and won't have the mana to freely move around with shukuchi. In this game I would have gotten travels eventually, probably after the next death if it happened, but I hadn't needed them before that.

In regards to the pro scene, well like the post says I haven't seen weaver picked in pro games in a long time, but I believe it was actually EE who made no boots weaver a thing.

[salva早晨享用的咖啡]

dunno
think they of common pick few patch ago

[VetProf]

Though Weaver is a very good escape hero, he's very frail. All it takes is a good stun or silence to shut him down. Sure, he could Time Lapse to regain the health or Shukuchi away, but that is if he can survive through the stun/silence, which in most cases, he can't with his low HP pool. Even though Linken's Sphere can avoid surprise stuns or silences, it's useless against AOE stuns/silences and players that can get rid of the spell-block first.

IMO, Weaver is generally best as a pubstomper (a somewhat better version of Riki, IMO).

[Path Of Pain]

Riki trash Weaver when it comes to pubstomps. Because he delivers constant and good damage with only PT. Weaver needs a lot more to provide that.

And don't forget the almighty cloud.

[VetProf]

引用自 Artemix：

Riki trash Weaver when it comes to pubstomps. Because he delivers constant and good damage with only PT. Weaver needs a lot more to provide that.

And don't forget the almighty cloud.

Too bad wards and dust shut him down early on, while Weaver isn't affected much by those.

[The Gravekeeper]

If you go no boots on weaver my concern is that you would spam shukuchi and if I play weaver I like to have my escapes ready should i ever need them instantly, this would not tbe the case if u were using them for normal travelling around the map.

[Path Of Pain]

引用自 The 'Veteran' Engie：

引用自 Artemix：

Riki trash Weaver when it comes to pubstomps. Because he delivers constant and good damage with only PT. Weaver needs a lot more to provide that.

And don't forget the almighty cloud.

Too bad wards and dust shut him down early on, while Weaver isn't affected much by those.

When pubstomping? what wards? what is that?.

[VetProf]

引用自 Artemix：

引用自 The 'Veteran' Engie：

Too bad wards and dust shut him down early on, while Weaver isn't affected much by those.

When pubstomping? what wards? what is that?.

Ok, you got me. Still, Weaver is better for average-skill pub stomping, while Riki is better for lower tiers.

[JaimextaSIS]

Mirana its a great en mid ... well ... weaver is a middle :(