Why is mid considered the one who HAS to gank?

[Danger Dwarf]

I have never understood ganking from mid, because sure it can land you a kill (maybe) which is good if you are somebody like pudge, but in all honestly I don't see why it is so viable. If you are somebody sf or invoker I can't see why you would want to go gank if you need farm, because a kill is about the equivalent of 2-3 creep waves so why would you bother?

A gank also would only work if we assume the enemy support sucks, so in lower tier it is viable, but when supports realize warding stops ganks it suddenly falls apart because they will have vision of you. Vision in general or missing calls should be enough to stop a gank and therefore waste your time as you walk all the way from mid to a lane with no gold, no exp, and with no point.

People also say a lot that "It stops them from harassing us and creates space" For about 20 seconds maybe, but then they will go back to beating you in lane, and this is IF you even get the kill; however, the only reason I could see killing them is that it stops them from getting gold and exp for a time even if it is short, but in all honestly I think it depends on the hero. If you play a snowball hero from mid then I could see ganking, but if there is a hero who needs farm in mid then I see no point in ganking.

[Count_Dandyman]

Mid can most quickly and easily move to any part of the map to gank and whether you like it or not theres no point just focusing on farming then finding out once you are ready to fight the enemy have no reason to fear you because they either have demolished your defences, become strong enough to take your team down or can just plain counter you into oblivion.

[lulborne]

I don't think that. I guess people that are constantly losing their lane due to poor mechanical skills or just being outplayed, thinks that the mid is there to save them from their stupidity.

Not every hero go mid to gank early. You can pick Night Stalker, Pudge, QoP or someone similar and create space by ganking, but there are heroes that just don't gank very well and are usually there to gain gold, levels and maybe even a faster tower.

If a lane is losing, there are 4 other players other than the mid guy. Anyway can go there and assist the lane in distress.

[Narobi]

Originally posted by Count_Dandyman:

Mid can most quickly and easily move to any part of the map to gank and whether you like it or not theres no point just focusing on farming then finding out once you are ready to fight the enemy have no reason to fear you because they either have demolished your defences, become strong enough to take your team down or can just plain counter you into oblivion.

I'm not sure if you are trolling or not. Your mid hero should be your 1st or 2nd priority for farming. The ONLY people that should be ganking lanes early are the supports. If anything the only ganks that should be happenign are ganks for the mid hero. The reason for this being is you don't start the farm of the carries, and it's ok if the gank failes becuase the carry doesn't really lose any far the supports can do w/o the farm. Also if you have to bring a carry down to gank a lane then there better be a team fight happening for you better be getting 3 ez kills otherwise you are just wasting time, and givign away free farm to enemies. I don't know how long you been paying Dota2 or what your mmr is but you need to learn more before speaking.

Edit: However if the mid has won the lane and has enough farm then yeah they can do one or two ganks, but not gank all game.

[SAPsychose]

Well, you can put a hero mid who can get levels fast and gank more efficiently (Storm or Tusk for example).
But I agree with you, I often stay mid as Exort Invoker or Necro to farm and push the tower, while the enemy Shadow Fiend wanders off to gank or clear camps. If it's not an important kill on a hardcore carry, then you can easily get the same amount of gold in lane that you'd usually get from killing an enemy support.
Imo the two supports on the friendly team should smoke up and gank mid if possible.

Doesn't work that well in low tier though.

[Jehenoch]

A friend of mine always buys smoke as a pudge to help him gank and it helps him pretty well most of the times
But your point is right, people are overly expecting good ganks from their mid, I'm sorry bro but that's just what's around dota right now, or possibly forever

So you either go with it, or do something better than that. Otherwise people woild just.....flame at you

[Danger Dwarf]

Originally posted by Count_Dandyman:

Mid can most quickly and easily move to any part of the map to gank and whether you like it or not theres no point just focusing on farming then finding out once you are ready to fight the enemy have no reason to fear you because they either have demolished your defences, become strong enough to take your team down or can just plain counter you into oblivion.

Remember one thing to even gank the enemy suicide lanes effectively you have to move through the river, most commonly warded spot btw, and their safe lane can usually (should be) be warded to provide vision of them moving in for a gank. I am not going to be farming the entire game I am not playing a damn AM mid; however, staying and farming mid seems more reasonable than ganking a lane with a unsure chance of payoff.

EDIT: sorry switch the lanes I mentioned around I am somewhat tired right now.

[CryHavoc&LetSlipTheCreepsOfWar]

The way I see it, you don't have to gank, even because if you're unsucessful you loose out on valuable farm and are far away from any xp range for a while.

If your teammates are able to secure a kill while you gank you widen the gap between your team and their team in terms of xp and gold. A number of sucessul ganks will snowball your team.

It's mostly about how well other lanes are doing. If there is a lane in distress then you should go and help them when you can IMO, if the other team aren't fed already then you should be higher in levels and gold than they are and could secure a kill.

If your teammates are doing fin on their own then there is little point leaving your lane to go and assist them. Better to push a tower instead.

[PsYcHo_O]

If you get a good rune there is no reason not to get one or two easy kills. It depends on the hero of course, mid is probably the most flexible role.

[Mighty Atom]

when I'm mid, i usually just gank if I get a good ganking rune. Otherwise it's tough. But this also has a lot to do with the level I play at where my team mates are always pushing their lanes; then it's pretty unlikely i can get a successful gank off.

[Captain Salmon]

Personally I think it all comes down to hero choice, a lot of heroes in dota are very good at ganking lanes and getting kills for the team (Like Bloodseeker or NS previously mentioned) however some heroes who are great in mid lane are there just for that sole reason: They are a good mid hero choice; Getting an early lead in farm and outlaning the other mid laner.
If you have clearly picked a farming mid hero (Like Necro or Slark) and some of your team aren't doing well in lane and instantly spam "OI WHAT THE HECK MID?? GANK!?!" then bad luck pal you've been matched with people who don't understand basic stratagies and hero placement.
Which is usually then followed up by what I call "Yolo-solo" players trying to 1v5 or not helping in teamfights - Just waiting it out to take all the kills.
Its a sad story really, its why I always suggest finding a 5-man team and team speaking, at least then you won't have to worry about snotty brats who think they are the be-all end-all of dota.
(Sorry this turned into a rant)

[addic7eD]

Originally posted by the next little m8:

I don't think that. I guess people that are constantly losing their lane due to poor mechanical skills or just being outplayed, thinks that the mid is there to save them from their stupidity.

Not every hero go mid to gank early. You can pick Night Stalker, Pudge, QoP or someone similar and create space by ganking, but there are heroes that just don't gank very well and are usually there to gain gold, levels and maybe even a faster tower.

If a lane is losing, there are 4 other players other than the mid guy. Anyway can go there and assist the lane in distress.

Well said, agree on that.


Some people don't understand mid mechanics at all. Qop, pudge, earth spirit , storm spirit they can somehow benefit early game from ganking now and then when they hit 6. Other than that i don;t see point of mid ganking too much, in fact i see it other way around, people should come to mid and help your teammate to win mid.

All "mid player ganking thing" started when dota had trillions of trash players few years back when Drow Ranger was picked as mid hero and any noob could just go for rune mark and gank with frost, every 2 mins there was a secured kill. Then they nerf her and people still had that feel of mid player need to gank other lanes.


Persnally i go mid with Espirit and i gank even before 6 since it benefits me too and i fall of late game. But with voker i really try to stay in lane at least till i get any of my core items. Some people respect that, some people dont.

[lulborne]

Originally posted by PsYcHo_O:

If you get a good rune there is no reason not to get one or two easy kills. It depends on the hero of course, mid is probably the most flexible role.

You pretty much gave a reason. It depends on the hero. Also the heroes you are ganking. If you try to gank with, I don't know, Shadow fiend, powerful nukes, but no disable, he can go there and auto attack people, hit razers... can work well enough, but he doesn't have a way to lockdown anyone there. The enemy heroes can retaliate or escape, especially if they have disables of their own. Now if Night Stalker or Pudge were the ones ganking instead, their chance of success are far greater since whoever they manage to gank, chances are, can't do much about when they are disabled by them.

Well, I guess anything goes though. Some people overstimate what mid should do imo. As I said, there are 4 other heroes in his/her team. They can always leave to help a bit.

[Count_Dandyman]

Originally posted by Narobi:

Originally posted by Count_Dandyman:

Mid can most quickly and easily move to any part of the map to gank and whether you like it or not theres no point just focusing on farming then finding out once you are ready to fight the enemy have no reason to fear you because they either have demolished your defences, become strong enough to take your team down or can just plain counter you into oblivion.

I'm not sure if you are trolling or not. Your mid hero should be your 1st or 2nd priority for farming. The ONLY people that should be ganking lanes early are the supports. If anything the only ganks that should be happenign are ganks for the mid hero. The reason for this being is you don't start the farm of the carries, and it's ok if the gank failes becuase the carry doesn't really lose any far the supports can do w/o the farm. Also if you have to bring a carry down to gank a lane then there better be a team fight happening for you better be getting 3 ez kills otherwise you are just wasting time, and givign away free farm to enemies. I don't know how long you been paying Dota2 or what your mmr is but you need to learn more before speaking.

Edit: However if the mid has won the lane and has enough farm then yeah they can do one or two ganks, but not gank all game.

I never suggested you should gank early or all game just that sometimes theres a reason for it and that its usually called for from mid because of the central location you act from rather then being on the extremes of the map sometimes a less efficent hero arriving earlier is more use then a better one taking longer.

In an ideal game you have a support or wild card available to move with the flow of the battle and avoid disrupting your mids growth but without a team thats not always the game you get.

[Takeshi Gitano]

Originally posted by the next little m8:

I don't think that. I guess people that are constantly losing their lane due to poor mechanical skills or just being outplayed, thinks that the mid is there to save them from their stupidity.

Not every hero go mid to gank early. You can pick Night Stalker, Pudge, QoP or someone similar and create space by ganking, but there are heroes that just don't gank very well and are usually there to gain gold, levels and maybe even a faster tower.

If a lane is losing, there are 4 other players other than the mid guy. Anyway can go there and assist the lane in distress.

This , but leave the first toxic part , and the look like i discover weed two days ago.

[lulborne]

Originally posted by Quantum_F0am:

This , but leave the first toxic part , and the look like i discover weed two days ago.

do you smoke every day?