How do you even counter play sf in lane?

[Soferian]

even if I deny every creep he hits level 4 and its just spam razes....and i get told I failed mid XD?
I honestly dont know what to do vs him anymore. Even if you go aggressive early I get runned down by the right click difference.

Tips?

[The Coal Man]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sabrini Fur:

If I see SF mid, and no one else wants mid, I play Pugna.

Why Pugna?

1: I know his cast animations, so denying and last hitting is easy for me.
2: Maxing Nether Ward is SF's bane. Seriously. Makes him a scared little baby.
3: If you screw up the first 2, you can always ghost form yourself and escape his auto-attacks.

Yes, he's squishy, and if you ♥♥♥♥ up you're screwed, but it's totally worth the mind games.

Of course, once laning is over, I switch to support and do supporty things.

pugnas just fun in general. If only his ward aura worked like necros and didnt show up if they couldnt see it. Would be much more fun if you could sneak a ward.

[Spoops]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sabrini Fur:

If I see SF mid, and no one else wants mid, I play Pugna.

Why Pugna?

1: I know his cast animations, so denying and last hitting is easy for me.
2: Maxing Nether Ward is SF's bane. Seriously. Makes him a scared little baby.
3: If you screw up the first 2, you can always ghost form yourself and escape his auto-attacks.

Yes, he's squishy, and if you ♥♥♥♥ up you're screwed, but it's totally worth the mind games.

Of course, once laning is over, I switch to support and do supporty things.

Pugna is one of those that I would love to learn to play but games only go one way when I support.

[Jade Joules]

That's the great thing aout Pugna. You play him as a support, but even built as a support, if you juggle your abilities right (and get an aghanim's) you can potentially solo 2 or 3 heroes. I had a great moment in a recent game where my team had fed the enemy lifestealer, so I started making it my mission to destroy him. Everytime I'd see him (or troll warlord, but I'd been eating him since early game) I'd either stop his farming or kill him, and I'd watch him flail around trying to hurt me as I switched between ghost forming myself and life draining him. so good.

[Lahel]

Use a nuker.

[The Coal Man]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sabrini Fur:

That's the great thing aout Pugna. You play him as a support, but even built as a support, if you juggle your abilities right (and get an aghanim's) you can potentially solo 2 or 3 heroes. I had a great moment in a recent game where my team had fed the enemy lifestealer, so I started making it my mission to destroy him. Everytime I'd see him (or troll warlord, but I'd been eating him since early game) I'd either stop his farming or kill him, and I'd watch him flail around trying to hurt me as I switched between ghost forming myself and life draining him. so good.

dont forget the revenge kills. People tend to forget pugnas ward after he dies. Ive gotten a triple kill and saved a racks because they forgot about my ward after a teamfight and were trying to kill my one teammate left.

[Josh Hutcherson]

>Deny
>Win game

[Wasted_46]

sf is actually one of the easier heroes to totally counter.
- heroes like TA and Lina counter him 1v1
- easiest mid hero to gank in the whole game.

[tom]

change lane, you musn't b always mid

[Path Of Pain]

In low MMR games no-one ganks mid, ever. So SF has usually a good time there.

Also, don't ever request a gank mid, they will call you noob instantly.

[Soferian]

A lot of this was good feedback, and I read through it all. Its just I dont want to pick a hero JUST for the laning stage, especially a mid hero. I was looking for in lane counter play, but as someone said, no one ganks mid. That being said ill consider different heroes to learn for the matchup. Ty all!~

[ChemicalBacon]

Any nuker or ranged hero with strong damage kills him easily

[A Street Sweeper]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Chemicalbacon:

Any nuker or ranged hero with strong damage kills him easily

Problem is that he kills them easily as well, and can punish small misplays like no one else in the early game. even if you nail SF a few times he farms freaking fast so if you don't keep the pressure on then he will still get ahead. I have to say in solo q I really find SF to be a problem too as there is often not the coordination there to keep him down.

[ChemicalBacon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dr Taco Monster:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Chemicalbacon:

Any nuker or ranged hero with strong damage kills him easily

Problem is that he kills them easily as well, and can punish small misplays like no one else in the early game. even if you nail SF a few times he farms freaking fast so if you don't keep the pressure on then he will still get ahead. I have to say in solo q I really find SF to be a problem too as there is often not the coordination there to keep him down.

yeah thats the only issue

However a Sf without souls is mostly useless

As long as you keep kicking him when hes down (like coming back to lane after he died last time) you should be great

[The Coal Man]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sociopathic:

A lot of this was good feedback, and I read through it all. Its just I dont want to pick a hero JUST for the laning stage, especially a mid hero. I was looking for in lane counter play, but as someone said, no one ganks mid. That being said ill consider different heroes to learn for the matchup. Ty all!~

any hero with a way to reflect physical damage works well. Hes a glass cannon so things like blademail, nyx, or dark seer's ult can turn that against him fairly well at any point in the game(remember damage reflecting doesnt work if he pops bkb but seer's ult does). And like all physicals blinding works fairly well too. Slardars another amazing counter since he gets blink, has a stun, and has true sight. Shadow fiend really has no escape besides his core shadowblade and he cant survive stunbashing for more than a few seconds.

[76561198199939805]

You are showing frustration. The best way to counter SF is to play SF over and over again. Then you will see his true weaknesses..