Dota 2
The lies of dota-dev (Jeff Hill) about forced 50% and matchmaking!
Someone pls explain it to me, WHAT IS HE LITERALY SAYING?

“The Dota matchmaker will optimize for each individual game made being well-balanced, defined as games where the matchmaker predicts each side has an equal chance to win. As a consequence of this goal, over the long term all players will tend towards a 50% personal win rate… A 50% lifetime win rate isn’t an explicit goal or constraint of the matchmaker, rather it’s a consequence of trying to make the teams for each individual game fairly…” said Hill.

THE POINT: So it isn`t an explicit goal, but its a consequence of it?!?!
So first he denies it, only to then admit it? And then brand it as a consequence?
And then pretending it makes a fair game?
Whats the point i dont understand?

ANOTHER LIE! :

Hill further explained that the game coordinator does take some non-MMR factors into account, but these attributes shouldn’t affect the outcome of matches at scale (IT DOES!). The Dota 2 matchmaking process considers preferred language(WRONG!), connection latency, behavior score, and lifetime volume of games played.
(ALSO A LIE! 10k games play vs 100 games played, wich are mostly smurfs!)

Those traits are designed to give people higher-quality (YEAH SURE, STOMPS AND LOSINGSTREAKS) experiences, not necessarily a better chance of winning (RIGHT IT GIVES US A BETTER CHANCE OF LOSING!).

JUST READ THE FORUM JEFF, HOW ANGRY THE PEOPLE HERE ARE!
SO WHEN ITS FAIR AND BALANCED, HOW IT COMES PPL LOSE MORE THAN 1K MMR IN SHORT TIME?
If i could, i would fire that guy.

https://win.gg/news/valve-dev-debunks-dota-2-players-forced-50-win-rate-theory/
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Showing 1-15 of 35 comments
Kagami Oct 5, 2024 @ 3:44am 
Its from 3 years ago and he doesn’t even work in dota2 anymore. So whats the purpose on discussing and old dev who doesn’t even in this game anymore ?
Vinz Oct 5, 2024 @ 3:50am 
By looking at your Dotabuff it's clear the reason why you are losing 1k mmr and even more in short time..

Farewell
Schopenhauer Oct 5, 2024 @ 4:52am 
Originally posted by Vinz:
By looking at your Dotabuff it's clear the reason why you are losing 1k mmr and even more in short time..

Farewell
Hehe, yeah... sure. From crusader to herald. And like im the only one who is losing a lot mmr.recently.
Nice try troll.
Schopenhauer Oct 5, 2024 @ 5:01am 
Originally posted by Kagami:
Its from 3 years ago and he doesn’t even work in dota2 anymore. So whats the purpose on discussing and old dev who doesn’t even in this game anymore ?
Even if hes gone, system hasnt rly. changed. All the points i mentioned here, are still existent. Same as they were existent at his time there.
He worked there and he said that.
In my opinion, he admited the forced 50% even if he tried to mask it as consequence for better matchmaking. Also the algo gives me people with other language (i dont have problem with that) and pretty new accounts with few matches played but godlike skills...
So smurfing is literaly allowed, otherwise i would not meet 2-5 every match.
MVP_lCE™ Oct 5, 2024 @ 5:06am 
Originally posted by Vinz:
By looking at your Dotabuff it's clear the reason why you are losing 1k mmr and even more in short time..

Farewell

Many players unable to admit their own weaknesses since they always solo gaming or single playing, then they finding another excuses to be blamed to cover their own badness which is known as the weak decisions making in a cooperative gameplay of Dota.

FYI, I was a high active solo gaming or single playing player in years ago and I experienced all these before. Publicly, I can confess solo playing usually can be high emotional because solo players always wanna show off their skills to others (I felt it) and if failure met, then that will cut their pride a lot. That's why many solo players always unhappy or spoiling (ruining) in their games when they are failing to play correctly.

Regards,
MVP_ICE
Vinz Oct 5, 2024 @ 5:16am 
Originally posted by Schopenhauer:
Hehe, yeah... sure. From crusader to herald. And like im the only one who is losing a lot mmr.recently.
Nice try troll.


Infact it's your own fault if you went from Crusader to Herald, and your dotabuff speaks for you..

I've see enough of your complain threads already in past..

You always pretend and prefere to complain on everything, this time you even pretend to talk about something from an ex Valve employeer instead of maybe stop for a moment and use that time in trying to improve..



Farewell
Last edited by Vinz; Oct 5, 2024 @ 5:16am
Schopenhauer Oct 5, 2024 @ 5:17am 
Originally posted by MVP_ICE:
Originally posted by Vinz:
By looking at your Dotabuff it's clear the reason why you are losing 1k mmr and even more in short time..

Farewell

Many players unable to admit their own weaknesses since they always solo gaming or single playing, then they finding another excuses to be blamed to cover their own badness which is known as the weak decisions making in a cooperative gameplay of Dota.

FYI, I was a high active solo gaming or single playing player in years ago and I experienced all these before. Publicly, I can confess solo playing usually can be high emotional because solo players always wanna show off their skills to others (I felt it) and if failure met, then that will cut their pride a lot. That's why many solo players always unhappy or spoiling (ruining) in their games when they are failing to play correctly.

Regards,
MVP_ICE


Yeah, dropping 2 ranks for the 3rd. time. But now with the triple ammount of smurfs as it had when it happend the first time.
Why you even step in when you have nothing to say, but flaming?
Already told ya, lets play some matches. Afterwards you can blame me.
And i never said im a perfect, or a good player!
But beeing forced down to herald for 3rd. time now is a joke.
And even a funnier joke, because that skill level of opponents in herald is way higher than it was guardian and crusader.
And im the last one, who wants to show any skills.
Im only fed up with the lie of skill equals rank!
Like thousands of other players here in forum, on reddit, even on github... and so on.
Schopenhauer Oct 5, 2024 @ 5:23am 
Originally posted by Vinz:
Originally posted by Schopenhauer:
Hehe, yeah... sure. From crusader to herald. And like im the only one who is losing a lot mmr.recently.
Nice try troll.


Infact it's your own fault if you went from Crusader to Herald, and your dotabuff speaks for you..

I've see enough of your complain threads already in past..

You always pretend and prefere to complain on everything, this time you even pretend to talk about something from an ex Valve employeer instead of maybe stop for a moment and use that time in trying to improve..



Farewell


Pretty easy to say its always and only my fault to rank down. And im sure you say its the others players fault i even could reach crusader 3x.

Do you also see the point where winrate dropped to 20% hmm? Out of nowhere?
My fault, not because of the unbearable ammount of smurfs in lower bracket.
You just want to troll, nothing else.
And whats with the different pools? Also conspiracy?
The forced 50%? conspiracy? That this guy left changes nothing at the fact itself.
You need a psychiatrist
Ponyeater Oct 5, 2024 @ 6:14am 
It's very apparent. Whenever you do well, you get a streak of teammates who don't coordinate, don't even dev ancient, etc.

This game is a scam
Siwyj Oct 5, 2024 @ 10:27am 
Are they saying something that they gonna to fix it?
MaZzi_cz Oct 10, 2024 @ 12:33am 
What the dev said actually doesn't make any sense:

Citing: "he Dota matchmaker will optimize for each individual game made being well-balanced, defined as games where the matchmaker predicts each side has an equal chance to win. As a consequence of this goal, over the long term all players will tend towards a 50% personal win rate… A 50% lifetime win rate isn’t an explicit goal or constraint of the matchmaker, rather it’s a consequence of trying to make the teams for each individual game fairly…”

If there is an equal chance to win for both team it DOESN'T mean that over long term all players will tend towards 50% win rate!
It means exactly the opposite that players will tend to have win rate respective to their skills! E.g. some will have over 70%, some 50% and some 30% (just spread over the entire scale) - all depending on their skills. That's how it should be if there was no forced winrate and that's state we all wish for.

It is actually the FORCED WINRATE of 50% (and not equal and balanced match making) which makes over long term all players to have personal wr 50% (how obvious).

The dev has obviously a failed logic but it is clear that 50% winrate is what they are desiring for because they are advocating it. They are advocating it by arguments which have no logical sense and actually speak for the opposite which is : The result of each team having an equal chance to win means that each player will have over long term winrate respective to their skills.
MaZzi_cz Oct 10, 2024 @ 12:35am 
Dota is a great game very well made but this thing really makes me consider quitting. I like competitive playing - I don't mind if I have a low or high rank but I definitelly mind if the competition isn't fair!
Himmel Oct 10, 2024 @ 12:41am 
profile->history->check your last 20 games...99% of the time it will be 50% no matter what game types you play if its not prepare for the win streak or lose streak and no matter what game type you play as well, those 20 games are where the forced algorithm hits harder
will Oct 19, 2024 @ 1:39pm 
Fact A) if you see 50% winrate long term <=> you see your mmr is staying at the same value. This is a fact. Unquestionable, easily verified looking at your history.

Fact B) if you see most of matchs are forced outcome "either win or loss", it's also a fact.
but questionable one. (one might say: "no it's not forced" etc blablabla).

Those 2 facts, are not correlated. you can have Fact A) and not Fact B , (A) is logical if you have a good ELO system. and you really see 50% winrate when you are at your level.


The real question is : are most matchs rigged? or not ? (forced outcome or 50% win chances).

From the learning player point of view : All the other questions are unimportant. Really.

The only problem with this system is : why are we seeing so many matchs with forced outcome (non 50% win chances). Do we have that *time* to spend for nothing, artificially?


These forced outcomes made me quit. they made me lose trust in their system. Forced outcomes are unacceptable. saying you have 50% win chance, when it's 25% is unacceptable.


this is only my opinion.
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Date Posted: Oct 5, 2024 @ 3:29am
Posts: 35