Matchmaking

[Chuck]

Every game feels like the matchmaking has been manipulated and is full of bots. Would love to play a legitimate game. Dota has such a great history with so many people spending their time on it. It'd be cool to see it come back. In my opinion, transparency on who we're playing bots/humans and less matchmaking manipulation would go a long way to creating an environment I'd be willing to give my time to again. What kind of visibility can we get on matchmaking?

[DotaTimeWaste🤮]

you dont even get to see the matchmaking source code and it has been 11 years
funny thing they have Dota 2 on github but not matchmaking
do you think they will ever make matchmaking algorithm visible to players?? I bet 300,000$ they will not.

[:D]

Match Id I wanna see the bot.

[Chuck]

Originally posted by GabeNRigMeGames:

you dont even get to see the matchmaking source code and it has been 11 years
funny thing they have Dota 2 on github but not matchmaking
do you think they will ever make matchmaking algorithm visible to players?? I bet 300,000$ they will not.

Not the algo, for sure, they'd need to keep their criteria proprietary is my guess. As it is now I have no confidence in the protocols that are being used and all of the wide skill gap games. Nothing is perfect but if every game you're in you seem like a top player, that's a problem.

[HeribertFugs]

Here we go again with entitled comments regarding matchmaking. Why should Valve make anything public, it's their product. And matchmaking is "fine", or at least a fine skill approximation. If you are the top player EVERY match, you will eventually gain 100 - 200 mmr per game and reach a ceiling fast. If you lose mostly due to bad teammates, then it is a skill issue. Where is the problem with matchmaking again?

[DotaTimeWaste🤮]

Originally posted by HeribertFugs:

Here we go again with entitled comments regarding matchmaking. Why should Valve make anything public, it's their product. And matchmaking is "fine", or at least a fine skill approximation. If you are the top player EVERY match, you will eventually gain 100 - 200 mmr per game and reach a ceiling fast. If you lose mostly due to bad teammates, then it is a skill issue. Where is the problem with matchmaking again?

Well, the problem is my teammates want to lose and as support they farm lane creeps using all their skills. Even I can win the game they don't deserve winning.

What you said above sounds like you don't play Dota 2 at all, am I right?

[Schopenhauer]

Originally posted by HeribertFugs:

Here we go again with entitled comments regarding matchmaking. Why should Valve make anything public, it's their product. And matchmaking is "fine", or at least a fine skill approximation. If you are the top player EVERY match, you will eventually gain 100 - 200 mmr per game and reach a ceiling fast. If you lose mostly due to bad teammates, then it is a skill issue. Where is the problem with matchmaking again?

Nope, they wont. Or why are there so many accounts with 500 matches played ever, 200x mvp(so they did good! Nearly every second match mvp.) but still only 255 matches won of the 500. in herald. Problem with matchmaking? Maybe such accounts like that lina, 7946894395 Goes 33/2/3 stomps alone whole team, but only has 300 games played ever. Yeah thats nice, isnt it? From crusader im down to herald atm. and then i meet players with such skill, IN HERALD! And thats the problem with matchmaking. A bit a skillgap isnt it? Or why are godlike playing guys in herald? Shouldnt there be the new one? The lowskilled? The guys who still learning or have to learn? This guy had nothing to learn, he played WAY above that bracket. We could do nothing. And thats the crap with this matchmaking, its rigged and it gives you unfair matches with such players.

[HeribertFugs]

Originally posted by GabeNRigMeGames:

Originally posted by HeribertFugs:

Here we go again with entitled comments regarding matchmaking. Why should Valve make anything public, it's their product. And matchmaking is "fine", or at least a fine skill approximation. If you are the top player EVERY match, you will eventually gain 100 - 200 mmr per game and reach a ceiling fast. If you lose mostly due to bad teammates, then it is a skill issue. Where is the problem with matchmaking again?

Well, the problem is my teammates want to lose and as support they farm lane creeps using all their skills. Even I can win the game they don't deserve winning.

What you said above sounds like you don't play Dota 2 at all, am I right?

Actually I have over 10k hours in Dota. And I'd say most players don't want to lose. You have good and bad games. And worse and better players on both teams. People just tend to focus on losses more than wins and try to see patterns that don't exist in "randomness".

[HeribertFugs]

Originally posted by Schopenhauer:

Originally posted by HeribertFugs:

Here we go again with entitled comments regarding matchmaking. Why should Valve make anything public, it's their product. And matchmaking is "fine", or at least a fine skill approximation. If you are the top player EVERY match, you will eventually gain 100 - 200 mmr per game and reach a ceiling fast. If you lose mostly due to bad teammates, then it is a skill issue. Where is the problem with matchmaking again?

Nope, they wont. Or why are there so many accounts with 500 matches played ever, 200x mvp(so they did good! Nearly every second match mvp.) but still only 255 matches won of the 500. in herald. Problem with matchmaking? Maybe such accounts like that lina, 7946894395 Goes 33/2/3 stomps alone whole team, but only has 300 games played ever. Yeah thats nice, isnt it? From crusader im down to herald atm. and then i meet players with such skill, IN HERALD! And thats the problem with matchmaking. A bit a skillgap isnt it? Or why are godlike playing guys in herald? Shouldnt there be the new one? The lowskilled? The guys who still learning or have to learn? This guy had nothing to learn, he played WAY above that bracket. We could do nothing. And thats the crap with this matchmaking, its rigged and it gives you unfair matches with such players.

Well, that's a whole different issue. Your problem is smurfs, not matchmaking, which works fine if all players are legit. What's your solution to the smurf issue? You already have to play 100hrs before you are able to queue ranked. There is also a mechanic in the matchmaking that gives overperforming players way more MMR. That means they are forcing smurfs faster to their skill ceiling.

[StaticRD]

Originally posted by Chuck:

Originally posted by GabeNRigMeGames:

you dont even get to see the matchmaking source code and it has been 11 years
funny thing they have Dota 2 on github but not matchmaking
do you think they will ever make matchmaking algorithm visible to players?? I bet 300,000$ they will not.

Not the algo, for sure, they'd need to keep their criteria proprietary is my guess. As it is now I have no confidence in the protocols that are being used and all of the wide skill gap games. Nothing is perfect but if every game you're in you seem like a top player, that's a problem.

thats the reason why quit right there. "wide skill gap". One game you dont even feel like you have to try that hard and you win convincingly and the next you try your hardest and it doesnt change anything because the skill gap between your team and theres is so far off that it makes it unwinnable regardless how hard you try (its a team game). Usually those games they give me 1 good competent player on the similar skill level of the other team and the other 3 are just bots compare to the other team. I've even forcefully tried to throw games to test the matchmaking and still won plenty of those matches so its fixed to the core. This means that you can be a bad player and still win your fair share of matches because the matchmaking is just gonna give you really good smurfs. Its 50-50 regardless if your really good or really bad

[StaticRD]

Originally posted by HeribertFugs:

Originally posted by Schopenhauer:

Nope, they wont. Or why are there so many accounts with 500 matches played ever, 200x mvp(so they did good! Nearly every second match mvp.) but still only 255 matches won of the 500. in herald. Problem with matchmaking? Maybe such accounts like that lina, 7946894395 Goes 33/2/3 stomps alone whole team, but only has 300 games played ever. Yeah thats nice, isnt it? From crusader im down to herald atm. and then i meet players with such skill, IN HERALD! And thats the problem with matchmaking. A bit a skillgap isnt it? Or why are godlike playing guys in herald? Shouldnt there be the new one? The lowskilled? The guys who still learning or have to learn? This guy had nothing to learn, he played WAY above that bracket. We could do nothing. And thats the crap with this matchmaking, its rigged and it gives you unfair matches with such players.

Well, that's a whole different issue. Your problem is smurfs, not matchmaking, which works fine if all players are legit. What's your solution to the smurf issue? You already have to play 100hrs before you are able to queue ranked. There is also a mechanic in the matchmaking that gives overperforming players way more MMR. That means they are forcing smurfs faster to their skill ceiling.

smurfing can be easily fixed if they were more aggressive with it but valve actually loves smurrfs thats why when you report them they never get banned. They know smurfs make up most of there playerbase so the smurf report button is just a made up thing, smurfs are a major part of what makes there algorithm what it is. There are players who have 4 year old 5 year old 7 year old 8 year old smurf accounts that never get touched. How is this possible ? Its because valve never checks them. Ive seen it 1st hand. These like level 4 steam accounts with like 12 friends with 1000+ dota games lmao. People forget that dota is a 12 year old game... a game that old with no real smurf punishment... ya those untouched smurf accounts can get really old over time of you passively playing it over the years, 6 years later your smurf account starts looking like a real account. The game is so old now that you cant even tell smurf accounts from real accounts sometimes. Its not as cut and dry like you think