Should dust of appearance kill illusions ?

[Dwarvenhobble]

So I think someone suggested this before but after a certain TI4 match where Illusions were used to Rat play over a long period I'm starting to wonder if maybe they're a bit of a problem.

Unlike other Rat Dota players at present the illusions give No gold when killed which is the key issues late game with Shadow Shaman and Lycan. Also Death prophet has to stay quite close for her ultimate to work.

Phantom Lancer late game is a nightmare (and I can see dust killing illusions killing him too quickly and making him UP).

So does there need to be a way to remove illusions other than simply using diffusal blade purge ?

I'm not sure about dust though it it would only be killing the illusions present when cast not prevent new ones.

Edit: because it may be too subtle for some people. I did say maybe some other item and not dust itself could have the effect added (and item without the higher cooldown seen on most other methods)

[Dank_Trainer]

If you change dust into this, better to remove illu heroes altogether. A 180 gold item hardcounters the late game steroid of plenty of heroes? I call bs on this suggestion.
On the other hand, there are many ways to deal with illu's, such as hex, OD, dusa, AOE nukes.

[NyxCrab]

Maybe increase the cost of it or put it on a limit, similar to observer wards?

[Dwarvenhobble]

Originally posted by RGC Dark_Trainer:

If you change dust into this, better to remove illu heroes altogether. A 180 gold item hardcounters the late game steroid of plenty of heroes? I call bs on this suggestion.
On the other hand, there are many ways to deal with illu's, such as hex, OD, dusa, AOE nukes.

Yeh I did think that. Maybe the reveal needs to be on some other item or something.
With those you mentioned it really is damaging but putting the item on such a long cooldown for a single illusion. OD maybe but that's very pick based and not really suited to many compositions and AOE nukes aren't that effective vs late game tougher illusions and only good to find the real hero if they bother to send the real hero in.

[docks]

no way... this would make carry naga so bad, just get dusts on your supports, would make pl garbage too, for 180 gold insta kill all illusions in like 1k AoE? no

[ᵗᵗᵛpudnpop]

Originally posted by Dwavenhobble:

Should dust of appearence kill illusions?

Dota 2
615 hrs on record


Nope.

[Hempest]

Lol dust killing illusions would make heros like naga and PL useless and increasing cost/adding a buying CD would make invis heros to strong.

[Dwarvenhobble]

Originally posted by Robo:

Originally posted by Dwavenhobble:

Should dust of appearence kill illusions?

Dota 2
615 hrs on record


Nope.

If you'd bothered to read. As it appears you can by going through onto my profile and taking that date I'm sure all 20 of those Ranked games you've played have actually given you such a great insight into the game right ? Or maybe the fact you have an approximate 20% abandon rate on matches has helped.

Either way I actually said in the the third response maybe it needs to be added as part of an items (not an item that reveals already but some item to give a more mass removal option.

I also said should there be another way to kill illusions . I didn't actually say it just had to be dust. At present most methods work on one illusion with something like a 15 second + cooldown

[Intelligent Heavy]

Pick Earthshaker
Acquire Aghs
???
Profit

[Dwarvenhobble]

Originally posted by PH03N1XIntelligent Heavy:

Pick Earthshaker
Acquire Aghs
???
Profit

Be naga Siren
split push
Profit
Laugh at Earth shaker wasting his ultimate on a single location as you're spread out.

[ᵗᵗᵛpudnpop]

Originally posted by Dwavenhobble:

Originally posted by Robo:

Dota 2
615 hrs on record


Nope.

If you'd bothered to read. As it appears you can by going through onto my profile and taking that date I'm sure all 20 of those Ranked games you've played have actually given you such a great insight into the game right ? Or maybe the fact you have an approximate 20% abandon rate on matches has helped.

Either way I actually said in the the third response maybe it needs to be added as part of an items (not an item that reveals already but some item to give a more mass removal option.

I also said should there be another way to kill illusions . I didn't actually say it just had to be dust. At present most methods work on one illusion with something like a 15 second + cooldown

There are already existing means to deal with illusions. Anyone with cleave is an obvious one. Dust is for slowing and revealing, that's more than enough capability for one active item. If the enemy team has a lot of illusion-based heroes or heroes you know will build a manta, like all things in dota, learn2counter pick.

[Octavia]

Don't let her farm? To my knowledge, most Illusion based carry heroes are pretty much reliant on split-pushing rather than beating you in a direct fight(At least early on), so force those early; it's not as if Captain's Mode doesn't give you the opportunity to ban and counter-pick, so you can cover up a draft that's weak against such a tactic by banning Illusion heroes, or by picking heroes who can easily clear Illusions(Battlefury carries come to mind in some cases, and durable Illusions require a lot of farm; Mjolnir is also acceptable due to the increased damage Illusions take).

Illusions are 'no risk', but they also aren't a problem unless you allow them to get a fair bit of farm, since they take so much damage in most cases; they also have some item counters that may not be ideal for the heroes you have, but will allow you to control them if they don't amass too much Gold. A carry Naga Siren who split-pushes can be incredibly annoying, but she does virtually nothing early game, her escape has a huge cool-down and you can draft against her. I think all those aspects mean that she's not broken, particularly when you really look at what Illusions do in the early game, and how most of those heroes can be shut down without too much effort.

[NightMareEx]

1st pick doom vs her....2nd get a blink or something so you can get close 2 her with out her seeing you to ult and run....3rd ult her before she can do any thing.... now she is not so op and can rat...

[Logoncal]

Really? The illusions are ALREADY weak. They do like 20-100% damage (The only illusions that does FULL damage are CK's ultimate ones and some others that i probably forgot) and they take either twice the damage (CK's ultimate), three times or even FOUR times the damage.

Seriously, any kind of AOE spells already make Illusions easy to kill.

[Logoncal]

Plus, if the illusions of a hero like PL is making your team lose, there's something really wrong going on with your team.

[Dwarvenhobble]

Originally posted by Robo:

There are already existing means to deal with illusions. Anyone with cleave is an obvious one. Dust is for slowing and revealing, that's more than enough capability for one active item. If the enemy team has a lot of illusion-based heroes or heroes you know will build a manta, like all things in dota, learn2counter pick.

Considering the present tactic is to build fairly Tanky and only 1 version of cleave does 100% damage and has a cooldown associated with it then I'm not sure how when 1 illusions is Tanky and takes time how 20 - 65% damage would be helpful.

especially if the illusions don't group up and split up to push in.

Funny thing. You can't counter pick if they have last pick. This isn't all pick pubs talk where you can wait them out.

Originally posted by Fired UP:

Really? The illusions are ALREADY weak. They do like 20-100% damage (The only illusions that does FULL damage are CK's ultimate ones and some others that i probably forgot) and they take either twice the damage (CK's ultimate), three times or even FOUR times the damage.

Seriously, any kind of AOE spells already make Illusions easy to kill.

Bonus radiance damage is the friend of illusions.