Bloodthorn is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupidly broken its not funny

[Dragonvarine]

Had a normal game, Chaos Knight gets bloodthorn and was able to kill a 5.5k hp primal beast in 2 seconds because it does absolutely stupid damage. I literally couldnt dispell it because im stunned. So what do you even do when youre a tank that dies in literally 2 seconds during the stun?

There is not a single ability or item in the game that does as much damage other than sunder.

Theres a reason chaos knight, veno, and brood are top carries with this stupidly broken ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ item. It makes the game unfun. But nah remove hood of defiance but keep the item that can do 5k damage in 2 seconds?

[Sherryge]

Veno doesnt count since theres no way that was intended. but bloodthorn really shouldnt be applied to units under control as a band aid atleast until a rework is ready

[Dragonvarine]

Originally posted by Sherryge:

Veno doesnt count since theres no way that was intended. but bloodthorn really shouldnt be applied to units under control as a band aid atleast until a rework is ready

I guess thats true but this is frustrating. They nerf it by HALF and it still one shots me in 2 seconds as a full tank? Why even go literally any hero at this point man

[Immortal pos 5/4]

It's the most expensive item in the game. If expect to get hit by it use BkB. If you do get hit by it before you are stunned you have a whole truckload of options to cleanse it off.

CK is a crazy obvious hero. His stun gives you like 20 seconds to react before it reaches you and Reality warp has a huge tell window as well. That means somewhere you blew it, and CK was getting the drop on you. If you didn't get BkB on Primal Beast then well... Crusader life I guess.

Bloodthorn is really powerful, but it's also extremely obvious and very, VERY expensive.

[Dragonvarine]

Originally posted by Immortal pos 5/4:

It's the most expensive item in the game. If expect to get hit by it use BkB. If you do get hit by it before you are stunned you have a whole truckload of options to cleanse it off.

CK is a crazy obvious hero. His stun gives you like 20 seconds to react before it reaches you and Reality warp has a huge tell window as well. That means somewhere you blew it, and CK was getting the drop on you. If you didn't get BkB on Primal Beast then well... Crusader life I guess.

Bloodthorn is really powerful, but it's also extremely obvious and very, VERY expensive.

Okay how about this dude. Its a 15 second cooldown, and bkb is a 95 second cooldown with a 9-6 sec duration. So what do I do when bkb is on cooldown smart guy? Nothing, he doesnt even need to stun me. Even if I get lotus, its not gonna stop the fact that when all my dispells are on cooldown, he will kill me in literally 2 seconds when I have 5k hp. What item or ability can do that? Dont you think theres a big ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ difference in damage compared to literally anything else in the game?

Before that item no tank was dying in under 2 seconds.

The funny part is, thats not even when the burst damage at the end of the bloodthorn active happens, imagine the extra damage when you deal 5.5k damage and more?

Also dont use that expensive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to justify, it does more dps than a divine rapier.

Also "somewhere" i blew it. I went highground in my own jungle. He happened to be there and the mere presence of him got me stunned before I peripherally saw it. Also what about the rest of my team who are getting killed in similar ways because this Chaos Knight did reasonable damage until he decided to drop 6k on an item to basically crutch his win.

Shiva's guard is 5.1k gold and its not even CLOSE to being that powerful.

[Dinsdale]

Originally posted by Dragonvarine:

Originally posted by Immortal pos 5/4:

It's the most expensive item in the game. If expect to get hit by it use BkB. If you do get hit by it before you are stunned you have a whole truckload of options to cleanse it off.

CK is a crazy obvious hero. His stun gives you like 20 seconds to react before it reaches you and Reality warp has a huge tell window as well. That means somewhere you blew it, and CK was getting the drop on you. If you didn't get BkB on Primal Beast then well... Crusader life I guess.

Bloodthorn is really powerful, but it's also extremely obvious and very, VERY expensive.

Also dont use that expensive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to justify, it does more dps than a divine rapier.


Shiva's guard is 5.1k gold and its not even CLOSE to being that powerful.

It's still hardly broken, and since its expensive it takes a good chunk of time to get it. Even if you skip your entire item progression just to rush it...

Hell, you even know a player might get it once he has orchid, plenty of time to get items to counter it. Unlike bloodthorn I see shivas in almost EVERY game that I play in. Lifesteal and especially spell lifesteal is really powerful atm. So yes, Shivas is actually close to be that powerful.

The argument that it scales to well with certain heroes im not gonna comment on. Might be true, might be false. Havent had issues with it.

Is this the game you're talking about?
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7887336618

If so, your entire team is kinda bad vs a CK, hes got 17-1 and can solo kill anyone. Your AM didnt do anything but farm and cant do anything with that lineup supporting him.

[Dragonvarine]

Originally posted by Dinsdale:

Originally posted by Dragonvarine:

Also dont use that expensive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to justify, it does more dps than a divine rapier.


Shiva's guard is 5.1k gold and its not even CLOSE to being that powerful.

It's still hardly broken, and since its expensive it takes a good chunk of time to get it. Even if you skip your entire item progression just to rush it...

Hell, you even know a player might get it once he has orchid, plenty of time to get items to counter it. Unlike bloodthorn I see shivas in EVERYGAME that I play in. Lifesteal and especially spell lifesteal is really powerful atm. So yes, Shivas is actually close to be that powerful.

The argument that it scales to well with certain heroes im not gonna comment on. Might be true, might be false. Havent had issues with it.

Is this the game you're talking about?
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7887336618

If so, your entire team is kinda bad vs a CK, hes got 17-1 and can solo kill anyone. Your AM didnt do anything but farm and cant do anything with that lineup supporting him.

The game was just a pub game for fun with friends. Im purely isolating the incident where I was killed in literally 2 seconds (5.5k dmg). Even if a PA would extremely farmed she still wouldnt have killed me as quickly or OD if you want to go negate resistances. At least I have a few seconds with them to actually escape or ult so my team can come in if theyre nearby or whatever.

Shiva's is not busted. Its good and makes sense for its price. But shivas isnt going to make you deal 5k damage in a second though. Its used in every game because its just very versatile for any tank and theres always a tank in every game so obviously it's going to be more apparent in games.

Again in general, what if I dont have bkb or dispels available, im as a tank who spent all his gold on trying to stay alive just has to die in literally a second? I dont care if its expensive because then youre adding a massive ceiling. If you have a hypothetical item that will literally end the game for 10k it procures a ceiling that other items cannot reach, might as well just buy that item right? A 6 slotted hero with bloodthorn vs one without is going to be a big difference for a 1.6k difference.

Problem is that bloodthorn cannot be used in all heroes, which ok good, but then when your carry (referring to other games) gets hit by a bloodthorn by a hero like PL or Chaos Knight they instantly die.

I dont understand why we are trying to justify an item that literally does the most damage in the game. Every single hero that deals obscene dps has be attributed to bloodthorn other than venomancer (unintended). Chaos Knight I think having the highest DPS in the game other than veno with bloodthorn. Shiva will never let you do that (cough 15%).

[KingXRay]

i can tell you, i never struggle to beat ck with that items but if its storm spirit using that item, it is way more op so.
check my replay at 20min, orge, sb, pudge and ck all ganking me, and watch me escape lol
match id: 7882586239

[Dinsdale]

CK and PA is just one of those heroes that can destroy you in different ways if they are 10k ahead in NW as with any other carry like in your case. I dont see bloodthorn enough to make me think its broken. CK just scales really good with certain items like echo, manta etc, this isn't exactly news.

I just buy the argument that its bloodthorn thats the problem. Cost vs dmg argument against the bloodthorn is valid, I see no problem here.

Seems to me what youre saying is CK is kinda the problem with certain items. But then we need to rework how items work on illusions in general. That comes with its own set of problems.

I dont really see CK that high on the trends either, unlike say pos 5 tinker.

[Nostraanus]

Originally posted by Dragonvarine:

Had a normal game, Chaos Knight gets bloodthorn and was able to kill a 5.5k hp primal beast in 2 seconds because it does absolutely stupid damage. I literally couldnt dispell it because im stunned. So what do you even do when youre a tank that dies in literally 2 seconds during the stun?

There is not a single ability or item in the game that does as much damage other than sunder.

Theres a reason chaos knight, veno, and brood are top carries with this stupidly broken ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ item. It makes the game unfun. But nah remove hood of defiance but keep the item that can do 5k damage in 2 seconds?

Why you don't buy lotus? CK stun is literally the slowest projectal in the game so just press lotus before it hits you. Just press lotus, and run or do something else.

[Котик]

CK is a broken hero itself. He has almost all types of skills in dota and all of them are overbuffed for him. He has stun, crit, strong illusions, silence/break, lifesteal, hook and all of it is accomplished with unreal stats and damage. Literally every 3rd game some abuser just picks it, pushes 2 buttons all the game and kills any enemy in 2 seconds

[LDvergil]

When CK sees me and he has blink and bloodthorn....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgrf41xD_cA