If PA isn't OP

[2hu2tru]

Then how come every- single- PA you see goes a hot 14+ kill / 5- death game most of the time? Why is she second highest pick rate. Why does everyone keep asking this? I know she could be countered and by god if I can even build a bkb or a ghost -before- shes on her 7th kill in 6 minutes I'll do my best to use it but you can't honestly tell me there isn't anything up with this hero.

Like, I play enchantress a lot. I don't see anyone say "gg its an enchantress we're ♥♥♥♥♥♥" I don't see any posts about enchantress being too op. I don't hear anyone complaining about IO so whats the deal with PA? I think I've only been a part of maybe, 2 games where the PA sucked and maybe 1 where we actually won it with a PA on the enemy team. But most of the time if my PA ban doesn't go through, you kinda know how the match is gonna go from the start.

I'm honestly not that much of a pro, I'm uncallibrated and don't play -too- much but I know if you have to build like two different items or its gg if a hero gets more then 5 kills. There's a problem.

P.S Reading PA's abilities and scaling off the wiki feels like I'm reading some goth 16 yr olds marry sue as ♥♥♥♥ deviant art Oc if ya'll cant agree with me on above you can at least agree with that.

[Zagryzaec]

You are just too young and I expirienced.

Ench was in fact considered one of truly broken chars and even was reworked.

Io was winner of grand finale.

Pa isn't op, she is just easy to use.

[Ulthwé]

https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/phantom-assassin 49,31% winrate. It is bad. Not awful, but definitely not good. And it is like that for all brackets. And surprisingly enough her best winrate is as pos 2.

BKB is useless against PA. Ghost or any escape item will especially if you play ench since she can one shot you with dagger probably.

Enchantress has incredible harass power in lane, and her ult can be quite annoying, especially if no one goes spirit vessel, however it doesn't seem broken so I won't ask for a nerf. https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/enchantress ench also has a bad winrate, eventhough, if you watch closely it is mostly due to people playing her on wrong positions. She keeps 49,79% winrate on offlane.

You don't hear complaint about IO because he is good only with a good player. He has an awful winrate below divine. Also, his power is not obvious, he is a mini walking mek or tarrasque which gives movement and attack speed but you don't pay attention enough to see it would be broken.

PA isn't picked that much actually. It is only picked in lower brackets. Actually you can see pa pickrate decrease each rank, it is not the sign that a hero is broken. It is rather a sign that she is a hero people don't know how to counter at low ranks.

[DANKBOI]

Originally posted by Hyōga:

https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/phantom-assassin 49,31% winrate. It is bad. Not awful, but definitely not good. And it is like that for all brackets. And surprisingly enough her best winrate is as pos 2.

BKB is useless against PA. Ghost or any escape item will especially if you play ench since she can one shot you with dagger probably.

Enchantress has incredible harass power in lane, and her ult can be quite annoying, especially if no one goes spirit vessel, however it doesn't seem broken so I won't ask for a nerf. https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/enchantress ench also has a bad winrate, eventhough, if you watch closely it is mostly due to people playing her on wrong positions. She keeps 49,79% winrate on offlane.

You don't hear complaint about IO because he is good only with a good player. He has an awful winrate below divine. Also, his power is not obvious, he is a mini walking mek or tarrasque which gives movement and attack speed but you don't pay attention enough to see it would be broken.

PA isn't picked that much actually. It is only picked in lower brackets. Actually you can see pa pickrate decrease each rank, it is not the sign that a hero is broken. It is rather a sign that she is a hero people don't know how to counter at low ranks.

Seems like we have exact answer LUL
Everything I wanted to talk about.

[2hu2tru]

Originally posted by Hyōga:

a sign that she is a hero people don't know how to counter at low ranks.

Didnt mean to quote this bit but Im on the phone. I know good enough tp build ghosts the unfortunate times PA gets into the game but I honestly don't see what good it really does but dely the inevitable. Her Knife shares the crit chance of her auto attack right? If she is attacking you and you ghost I don't actually think you can get away far enough from her in the time before she could just teleport again and hit you again. Thats often how fights with her goes when I ghost. Her 50-75% evasion Ive seen get her out of 1v 5s and once she builds bkb she cant even be targeted.

I know any hero can be terrifying when fed and also in the right hands but Ive never seen any hero so terrifying in virtually any hands. Even against sniper, kunka, phantom lancer Ive never felt so out of control with a single hero lol

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by SheeP GIRl:

Originally posted by Hyōga:

a sign that she is a hero people don't know how to counter at low ranks.

Didnt mean to quote this bit but Im on the phone. I know good enough tp build ghosts the unfortunate times PA gets into the game but I honestly don't see what good it really does but dely the inevitable. Her Knife shares the crit chance of her auto attack right? If she is attacking you and you ghost I don't actually think you can get away far enough from her in the time before she could just teleport again and hit you again. Thats often how fights with her goes when I ghost. Her 50-75% evasion Ive seen get her out of 1v 5s and once she builds bkb she cant even be targeted.

I know any hero can be terrifying when fed and also in the right hands but Ive never seen any hero so terrifying in virtually any hands. Even against sniper, kunka, phantom lancer Ive never felt so out of control with a single hero lol

You are not supposed to fight PA as enchantress if it is what you are asking, run away unless there is an ally nearby. If she ruins that many games of yours, you can build glimmer + ghost to be sure to escape, you can buy heaven's halberd to disarm her, given this disarm isn't dispelled by BKB. Aeon disk is the ultimate solution since you force her to waste something on you.

MKB counters her evasion. Break (passive disable) negates both her evasion and her crits, therefore, Doom aghs, SD aghs, viper nethertoxin are all really good heroes against her.

Sniper can def HG like crazy, PA can't do that. PL can drain all your mana in seconds and he has a free dispell, PA can't do that, Kunkka can one shot Ench all the same, he just build crit, hit creep and kill most supports heroes in one hit.

Ultimately, if someone annoys you that much, pick someone only to counter him. I've experience that you can render anyone useless when you play bane, you ult him and he is dead if his team doesn't have a strong dispell and if your team has the minimum skill to kill him during ult. https://www.opendota.com/matches/5155199430 I can't parse it, but I can tell I mostly caught Brood and PA with bane Ult in this game.

[KADİR BENİ BOĞUYOR]

Lol pa is the worse carry atm, if you pick paper support its okey you are just feed for her, but this is mkb meta you just need 4,5 k for counter her. A carry that killing enemy support thats natural not something broken.And at team fights she is weak without bkb. Carry players doesnt like build bkb that much. for example if you pick naga pick pl spectre,anti mage , jugger even tb you can skip bkb for a while mybe all the game but pa need it. If you think not , you are wrong she need it.and late game its only 5 sec but other peoples are more tanky even paper supports can build his items a bit tanky something like shivas guard, greves.thats why satanic is one of the best item for pa cuz of status resist and lifesteal. Cuz without satanic you can kick her out of fight easily.

[Ulthwé]

Do you play ench pos 5 often? Did you check ench safelane winrate? 43,38% winrate. She is really situationnal, you can purge dark seer ion shell, which is good, you can harass heroes like Axe or Tidehunter, but other than that, you are food for your enemy and ench is bad most of the time as a pos 5, since you have so few HP, and you can't help your carry that much because you have an unreliable heal, you can only purge the enemy and not stun him.

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by Hyōga:

Originally posted by SheeP GIRl:

Didnt mean to quote this bit but Im on the phone. I know good enough tp build ghosts the unfortunate times PA gets into the game but I honestly don't see what good it really does but dely the inevitable. Her Knife shares the crit chance of her auto attack right? If she is attacking you and you ghost I don't actually think you can get away far enough from her in the time before she could just teleport again and hit you again. Thats often how fights with her goes when I ghost. Her 50-75% evasion Ive seen get her out of 1v 5s and once she builds bkb she cant even be targeted.

I know any hero can be terrifying when fed and also in the right hands but Ive never seen any hero so terrifying in virtually any hands. Even against sniper, kunka, phantom lancer Ive never felt so out of control with a single hero lol

You are not supposed to fight PA as enchantress if it is what you are asking, run away unless there is an ally nearby. If she ruins that many games of yours, you can build glimmer + ghost to be sure to escape, you can buy heaven's halberd to disarm her, given this disarm isn't dispelled by BKB. Aeon disk is the ultimate solution since you force her to waste something on you.

MKB counters her evasion. Break (passive disable) negates both her evasion and her crits, therefore, Doom aghs, SD aghs, viper nethertoxin are all really good heroes against her.

Sniper can def HG like crazy, PA can't do that. PL can drain all your mana in seconds and he has a free dispell, PA can't do that, Kunkka can one shot Ench all the same, he just build crit, hit creep and kill most supports heroes in one hit.

Ultimately, if someone annoys you that much, pick someone only to counter him. I've experience that you can render anyone useless when you play bane, you ult him and he is dead if his team doesn't have a strong dispell and if your team has the minimum skill to kill him during ult. https://www.opendota.com/matches/5155199430 I can't parse it, but I can tell I mostly caught Brood and PA with bane Ult in this game.

What? How she can even hit enchantress. I'm pretty sure that ench can wipe the floor with pa especially now when bkb don't counter untouchable.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Originally posted by Hyōga:

You are not supposed to fight PA as enchantress if it is what you are asking, run away unless there is an ally nearby. If she ruins that many games of yours, you can build glimmer + ghost to be sure to escape, you can buy heaven's halberd to disarm her, given this disarm isn't dispelled by BKB. Aeon disk is the ultimate solution since you force her to waste something on you.

MKB counters her evasion. Break (passive disable) negates both her evasion and her crits, therefore, Doom aghs, SD aghs, viper nethertoxin are all really good heroes against her.

Sniper can def HG like crazy, PA can't do that. PL can drain all your mana in seconds and he has a free dispell, PA can't do that, Kunkka can one shot Ench all the same, he just build crit, hit creep and kill most supports heroes in one hit.

Ultimately, if someone annoys you that much, pick someone only to counter him. I've experience that you can render anyone useless when you play bane, you ult him and he is dead if his team doesn't have a strong dispell and if your team has the minimum skill to kill him during ult. https://www.opendota.com/matches/5155199430 I can't parse it, but I can tell I mostly caught Brood and PA with bane Ult in this game.

What? How she can even hit enchantress. I'm pretty sure that ench can wipe the floor with pa especially now when bkb don't counter untouchable.

Dagger isn't affected by untouchable and phantom strike gives +175 attack speed.

Pa has 56,77% winrate against enchantress, it is litterally the fourth worst hero against her.

[Zagryzaec]

On max level yes. But enchs max level attack reduction is 180/245. And you usually cannot one shot her with dagger, and if not killed immidiately she heal herself. Vrit isn't even guaranteed.

As for her abilities she can just autoattack nonstop healing from time to time .

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

On max level yes. But enchs max level attack reduction is 180/245. And you usually cannot one shot her with dagger, and if not killed immidiately she heal herself. Vrit isn't even guaranteed.

As for her abilities she can just autoattack nonstop healing from time to time .

On max level, ench ult barely counters PA blink strike, she would need talent for that. Most of the time, PA can one or two shot most pos 5, unless you are reactive enough with ghost and she doesn't have abyssal.

She heals herself gradually, she won't outheal the fact that PA only need two crits to kill her. Crit is no guaranteed, but it doesn't need to be, dagger has enough range, she can casually throw a dagger.

I'm not asking for advice, OP is asking what he could do against PA. If you have anything to suggest feel free to do so. If you have a game ID of yours with ench killing PA a lot, feel free to share it with us.

[Zagryzaec]

I have games where I survive in ench vs full team trying to kill me including lion ult, ravage and some more, but we both know that in current system since I don't play her often but play actively with others there is nothing I can do to find it.

For op advice is simple - use enchantress natural strenght to kill pa early as she don't have deso and lvl 12 so don't really have damage to kill people. Get mkb and kill her nonstop. Get shiva's guard to remove chances of her killing you with daggers due to armor and blink due to further attack slow, so she won't even have a chance to land a crit on you other than dagger.

Also general pos 5 advice - don't show yourself to enemy untill he jump your teammates, so she can't blink or throw dagger at you and you can kill her with impetus.

Get yourself a hurricane pike and let her jump on you only to have her attack speed raised as she trying to ran to and as she is close she no longer have as.

Haven't play her lately, but hard to imagine she is nerfed so hard that rightclickers now are threat for her.

[Will Bang]

PA seems OP simply because players find her easier to use compared to similar heroes like Ursa, Slark, Huskar and Templar Assassin. She has built in blink, crits and evasion.
It's true that mid-late game necessitates MKB, but that's true of others like Windranger. Item prioritising is a fundamental aspect a lot of lower ranking players won't honour.

If you think PA's ability to quickly kill is some crap, you haven't experienced Tiny's blink + avalanche + toss combo, which he's able to manage surprisingly early in the match.

[:DDDDDD]

u just use stun/hex LOL

[Died From Oxygen Starvation]

use Chen