Dota 2
asanli Aug 21, 2024 @ 3:46pm
Natures Prophet Greater Treants
We were winning a game 20 vs 40 and a natures prophet from opposing team with greater treants simply destroyed all of our barracks under backdoor protection one by one at 35:00.

His greater treants each has 4600 (more than ancient) and hits around 230. He destroyed the ancient by spamming them. They won the game without team fights. He destroyed our base in several ocasions without any creeps, we couldn't push or fight (there were no fights).

He simply won the game solo. What's up with this? How do you even counter this? It feels so broken.
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Showing 1-15 of 19 comments
Deepbluediver Aug 21, 2024 @ 4:09pm 
Can you give a match-ID? I want to see how NP destroyed all your rax before your team could even respond.
Last edited by Deepbluediver; Aug 21, 2024 @ 4:09pm
asanli Aug 21, 2024 @ 4:57pm 
Originally posted by Deepbluediver:
Can you give a match-ID? I want to see how NP destroyed all your rax before your team could even respond.

I felt that creating a discussion in Dota forums was a wrong idea from the beginning.
Deepbluediver Aug 21, 2024 @ 5:00pm 
Originally posted by asanli:
Originally posted by Deepbluediver:
Can you give a match-ID? I want to see how NP destroyed all your rax before your team could even respond.

I felt that creating a discussion in Dota forums was a wrong idea from the beginning.
Wow, I don't immediately agree with you and your response is to run away?
asanli Aug 21, 2024 @ 5:03pm 
It wasn't "could even respond", it happened in like 10 minutes. We haven't seen any enemy players or the natures prophet himself. He just sends 2 greater treants and 2 illusions and 4 of them are enough to take down a barracks or a tower. He could easily take down everything in backdoor protection. Something is wrong with this.
Ragnoraok Aug 21, 2024 @ 5:20pm 
Please provide ID of match.
asanli Aug 21, 2024 @ 5:23pm 
Originally posted by Ragnoraok:
Please provide ID of match.

7907948753 he starts at 35:00
So manta to tank tower and auras on the illusions like ac? I think its great that people can't win by turtle hg defense. Learn how to create pressure and actually play the game
asanli Aug 21, 2024 @ 5:29pm 
Originally posted by ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ:
So manta to tank tower and auras on the illusions like ac? I think its great that people can't win by turtle hg defense. Learn how to create pressure and actually play the game

There was no point of pressure dude. He finished off everything like in 3 minutes under backdoor protection. If you pause at 36:00, he finishes off our barracks while we are pushing their 3 towers at once.
Last edited by asanli; Aug 21, 2024 @ 5:32pm
Dinsdale Aug 21, 2024 @ 6:10pm 
Kinda the thing with greater treants. Treant are Reinforced, like a Catapult. Meaning it takes half attack damage from heroes. Much tougher to kill than it first appears, but it melts to Towers and does siege dmg to buildings.
Deepbluediver Aug 22, 2024 @ 5:31am 
Originally posted by asanli:
Originally posted by Ragnoraok:
Please provide ID of match.

7907948753 he starts at 35:00
Thank you for the match-ID, and the timestamp; I'm watching the game now.

And you're not losing because of Greater Treants. Your losing because you let the NP farm all match long and couldn't win 4v5 against the rest of his team before he put his stupid push-build together.

NP took mid, rushed a midas, got it at 8 minutes, and then basically disappeared into the jungle. His next item is an Octarine core, and by 22 minutes he has more net worth than the next 2 highest people (both on your team) put together. But he doesn't buy any boots until 26 minutes- if you'd dropped some wards and gone to hunt him down, he would have been an easy kill for a lot of gold. But your lanes are... not great. Offlane PA? Pos5 PB? And PA and Sniper are both fighting with each other for farm at several points.

At 31 minutes you actually teamwiped the enemy except for NP, but all you do with that space is take a T1 top. How do you have a Sniper on your team and get to 31 minutes with the enemy still having a T1 standing? IMO it shows an incredible lack of pressure on your part. And then at 34 minutes your Sniper dies because he walks uphill, alone, with no vision, and has a Daedelous and Maelstrom but not a single escape item- no Hurricane Pike, no Shadowblade, etc.

When NP actually starts taking rax, he stands in your base for several minutes each time, waiting for his cooldowns to come up. No one at this time ever finds him, or puts up any kind of defense. Yeah he takes the rax fast, but he's also got an AC to buff the attack speed, plus Manta for extra illusions. By the time he gets to mid you can't even keep creeps out of your base, so there's no backdoor protection. And NP STILL has double the net-worth of the next highest person, including your own mid. NP is 2-2-7 but he ended the match with more last-hits than any 3 people on your team COMBINED.

Basically the NP committed early to this one tactic, which really only works if the enemy sits back and lets them control the entire flow of the game, which you did, despite being up in kills nearly the entire time.
The one thing I have to say in your defense, is that the account MIGHT be a smurf. It has 2500+ matches but it was only created a year ago, and he doesn't play like a normal Guardian, IMO, which is what his MMR apparently is.
Last edited by Deepbluediver; Aug 22, 2024 @ 5:42am
:D Aug 22, 2024 @ 5:52am 
Ok Op is right after reconsidering.
NP Illu have to much damage.
Last edited by :D; Aug 22, 2024 @ 6:31am
MVP_lCE™ Aug 22, 2024 @ 6:40am 
Everything in the game is coded (has a lot of algorithms also), I think the game has a broken line of codes that must be fixed by the developer. Good finding by OP to reveal this because after rewatching the replay, I found something suspicious which is known as "Summoned Unit" by the codings - link: https://i.imgur.com/tC9lDaq.png

If a Dota 2 hero is to multiply the illusions of Manta Style, I believe the illusions will be known as Summoned Units (SU) to the user or hero. This situation brings the same thing to the NP hero when he was casting Manta Style which can be known as SU also. However, for the game codes, I believe the Greater Treant (GT) is known or categorised as SU also. Therefore, the facet of the hero affects the illusions of the hero there. This is unfair also to all other heroes if it is not fixed immediately. 7.37c must fix this.

The Backdoor Protection aura can be countered by the NP because the user of the NP abused the NP with Manta Style to generate the SU there. That was very broken because the damage of the illusions can be higher than one Divine Rapier. The barracks and towers were broken by the NP because of the units summoned by the NP hero.

I played many other games before and the games have things called "summoned units" also. Summoned units of Manta Style or illusions cannot be grouped into the same category as summoned units of the hero's ability. That is wrong for game codings! Hope it can be fixed immediately. Good finding OP. :steamthumbsup:
I'm not convinced it's broken, I'm more convinced you faced a smurf
MVP_lCE™ Aug 22, 2024 @ 7:14am 
Originally posted by ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ:
I'm not convinced it's broken, I'm more convinced you faced a smurf

It is totally broken because the scripting or coding of the game is grouping the "illusion" comes from the hero unit to be known as "summoned unit", and the "Greater Treant" from the hero's ability/skill has been grouped into the same type. If this is not known as broken, then I can say the Greater Treant as illusion units also.

Maybe the Chaotic Offering by the Warlock hero that summons the golem(s) should be reviewed also, and others. I played so much with my PA before with Divine Rapier during the past. I cannot believe such illusion can be duplicated out from the original unit (hero) with so much attack damage. Besides, the NP has no damage increment before he cast the Manta Style. It happened when the NP cast the Manta Style. 100% guarantee that is "Summoned Units".
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Date Posted: Aug 21, 2024 @ 3:46pm
Posts: 19