Normal MM Must Have Roles Queue Also

[MVP_lCE™]

Many players like to rush for kills. They never aim or focus to play their roles properly when they are playing in Normal MM. IMO, the normal MM should designed to become like the ranked roles queue. The old styles of playing this Dota2 game changed a lot because I can see many players have lost the interest in focusing their roles. Most players always focus on building items only although they played as the support players.

Besides, most support players always never try the best to keep assisting the carries (include offlaner or mid) to get the best basic items. What is the point of the gaming if support player has good basic items and meanwhile the carries unable to achieve good basics to proceed further? Better go for a new game restart with zero record because I can sense those are abusers or exploiters who spoiled the Dota2 game matches.

Why those who play support heroes are so rushing to end the game? They want fast game to earn more game records?

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Why those who play support heroes are so rushing to end the game? They want fast game to earn more game records?

It's called "having fun".
Fighting is fun, simple as.

Although I agree - supports should be supporting. I had a game on Axe where I constantly didn't had mana to cast my ult at crucial moments only to realise that NO ONE on my team had Arcane Boots. Tranquils up the wazoo though... Probably not the reason why we lost, but definetely wasn't helping.

But role'd mm is not it. The last thing unranked needs is more avenues to get mad at your teammates.
Everyone picks whatever, everyone plays whatever, simple as.

[MVP_lCE™]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Why those who play support heroes are so rushing to end the game? They want fast game to earn more game records?

It's called "having fun".
Fighting is fun, simple as.

Although I agree - supports should be supporting. I had a game on Axe where I constantly didn't had mana to cast my ult at crucial moments only to realise that NO ONE on my team had Arcane Boots. Tranquils up the wazoo though... Probably not the reason why we lost, but definetely wasn't helping.

But role'd mm is not it. The last thing unranked needs is more avenues to get mad at your teammates.
Everyone picks whatever, everyone plays whatever, simple as.

The Normal MM can be a scene or arena for players to independently play with any pick or build. But the issue we have is, the high numbers of game playing in Normal MM can affect the "styles" of most players when they play in Normal MM, and get themselves involved in Ranked MM also. I always questioned myself, why ranked MM can be corrupted so much? There must be a reason behind it. All these players have or maybe learned the wrong styles of game-play (from Normal MM) when they get themselves into Normal MM, and then join the Ranked MM. Ahhh...I feel very bad for myself because I don't know how to explain properly :(

Maybe we can have Normal MM and Ranked MM to be the same in all modes except for one difference, "you play Normal MM and you gain no MMR, but if you want MMR, then play the Ranked MM." - opinion?

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Maybe we can have Normal MM and Ranked MM to be the same in all modes except for one difference, "you play Normal MM and you gain no MMR, but if you want MMR, then play the Ranked MM." - opinion?

Then there would no meaningful difference between the two and you might as well make ranked the default game then.

Right now these are completely different game modes with different people playing them, which is why separation even exists.

"Unranked" basically means "Casual". You play for fun, you do whatever, you can experiment. Everything is streamlined to let people to just get into the game ASAP - even bans have been automated. People don't expect high level plays from you or anything and ideally don't bother you as long as you actually play.

"Ranked" means "Competetive". People play to win by any means necessary and it shows in the vibe and how people constantly tell you what to do. It is basically a TI roleplay. Average unranked player does not care about these things, otherwise he wouldn't be playing unranked.

[MVP_lCE™]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Maybe we can have Normal MM and Ranked MM to be the same in all modes except for one difference, "you play Normal MM and you gain no MMR, but if you want MMR, then play the Ranked MM." - opinion?

Then there would no meaningful difference between the two and you might as well make ranked the default game then.

Right now these are completely different game modes with different people playing them, which is why separation even exists.

"Unranked" basically means "Casual". You play for fun, you do whatever, you can experiment. Everything is streamlined to let people to just get into the game ASAP - even bans have been automated. People don't expect high level plays from you or anything and ideally don't bother you as long as you actually play.

"Ranked" means "Competetive". People play to win by any means necessary and it shows in the vibe and how people constantly tell you what to do. It is basically a TI roleplay. Average unranked player does not care about these things, otherwise he wouldn't be playing unranked.

You said the "competitive" there. It can be meant for the MMR to be competed. Why the Normal MM cannot have roles queue?

When I asked such question, you said no meaningful different between the two and might as well make ranked the default game? May I know deeper what do u mean by "make ranked the default game"? I need more words for this line. TQ

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Why the Normal MM cannot have roles queue?

When I asked such question, you said no meaningful different between the two and might as well make ranked the default game? May I know deeper what do u mean by "make ranked the default game"? I need more words for this line. TQ

TL:DR - it's a needless complication to an inherently uncomplicated game mode. I guess you can introduce, but I just don't see any particular gain from it.

What I was trying to say is that:
If Unranked and Ranked will be exactly the same game modes with the only difference being the MMR going up and down - people will just default to playing ranked for the funny numbers rather than no number at all. There won't be a genuine reason to play casual since it's literally same thing just without the cool badge on your profile. People like badges.

[MVP_lCE™]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Why the Normal MM cannot have roles queue?

When I asked such question, you said no meaningful different between the two and might as well make ranked the default game? May I know deeper what do u mean by "make ranked the default game"? I need more words for this line. TQ

TL:DR - it's a needless complication to an inherently uncomplicated game mode. I guess you can introduce, but I just don't see any particular gain from it.

What I was trying to say is that:
If Unranked and Ranked will be exactly the same game modes with the only difference being the MMR going up and down - people will just default to playing ranked for the funny numbers rather than no number at all. There won't be a genuine reason to play casual since it's literally same thing just without the cool badge on your profile. People like badges.

Why it won't be a genuine reason to play casual? If you don't want to risk your MMR, then you can play more Normal MM (unranked). Now u know why people are smurfing with alternate accounts? What I have seen people were making choice to play by using alternate or secondary accounts (smurfing) because they don't want to put their MMR on the risk there. But they want to enjoy the fun which is similar as the ranked MM there. If more and more players are thinking to alternating their funs into secondary/alternate accounts, then more smurfs will happened!

[Kagami]

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Originally posted by Artek General:

TL:DR - it's a needless complication to an inherently uncomplicated game mode. I guess you can introduce, but I just don't see any particular gain from it.

What I was trying to say is that:
If Unranked and Ranked will be exactly the same game modes with the only difference being the MMR going up and down - people will just default to playing ranked for the funny numbers rather than no number at all. There won't be a genuine reason to play casual since it's literally same thing just without the cool badge on your profile. People like badges.

Why it won't be a genuine reason to play casual? If you don't want to risk your MMR, then you can play more Normal MM (unranked). Now u know why people are smurfing with alternate accounts? What I have seen people were making choice to play by using alternate or secondary accounts (smurfing) because they don't want to put their MMR on the risk there. But they want to enjoy the fun which is similar as the ranked MM there. If more and more players are thinking to alternating their funs into secondary/alternate accounts, then more smurfs will happened!

I don’t mind the smurf but i mind when a fun normal match become competitive. Hell no.

[MVP_lCE™]

Originally posted by Kagami:

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Why it won't be a genuine reason to play casual? If you don't want to risk your MMR, then you can play more Normal MM (unranked). Now u know why people are smurfing with alternate accounts? What I have seen people were making choice to play by using alternate or secondary accounts (smurfing) because they don't want to put their MMR on the risk there. But they want to enjoy the fun which is similar as the ranked MM there. If more and more players are thinking to alternating their funs into secondary/alternate accounts, then more smurfs will happened!

I don’t mind the smurf but i mind when a fun normal match become competitive. Hell no.

You don't have to worry the normal MM will become competitive because I never say bring MMR into normal MM, but I said bring roles queue into normal MM there. MMR can remain for ranked to be competitive.

[Kagami]

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Originally posted by Kagami:

I don’t mind the smurf but i mind when a fun normal match become competitive. Hell no.

You don't have to worry the normal MM will become competitive because I never say bring MMR into normal MM, but I said bring roles queue into normal MM there. MMR can remain for ranked to be competitive.

No thanks i don’t want people to worry about position or anything like that in ranked. Let the normal match be fun mode.

[MVP_lCE™]

Originally posted by Kagami:

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

You don't have to worry the normal MM will become competitive because I never say bring MMR into normal MM, but I said bring roles queue into normal MM there. MMR can remain for ranked to be competitive.

No thanks i don’t want people to worry about position or anything like that in ranked. Let the normal match be fun mode.

You can let the Normal MM be fun mode. But you cannot let the Normal MM to be an "influence" to cause the people in forgetting the true styles of playing Dota2 games because Dota2 games must always have good roles when playing. If you let the Normal MM to be such a big influence, then it means Normal MM is the REAL REASON why Ranked MM is corrupted or spoiled where most people don't want to play their roles properly.

[Absche]

I‘m looking for a hero selection based mm mode. Just queue and lock in your hero of choice and the matchmaker forms appropriate teams. People may notice that their queue times depend on their hero selection though.

[MVP_lCE™]

Originally posted by Absche:

I‘m looking for a hero selection based mm mode. Just queue and lock in your hero of choice and the matchmaker forms appropriate teams. People may notice that their queue times depend on their hero selection though.

Last time, when Dota2 wasn't released yet, the "Dota-allstars" which was played on Warcraft III, the game matching there always started in lobby styles where most players can know and understand their teammates are going for what roles or styles. Today's Dota2 has lobby mode but that mode doesn't good enough to influence or attract the players for its quality, instead many players keep focusing on Normal MM or Ranked Roles Queue MM (allpick), or Turbo Mode. All these players seem rushing on the "game records" or Game Matches only.

What is your opinion if I say, erase all the all-pick mode on Normal MM and Ranked MM, and allowing the all pick mode to be played on lobby only? Do u think the players will be feared by this idea? I can guarantee they afraid of this idea.

[Си́нтез]

it depends on what are you suggesting. I think Valve wants to add no more additional game modes to keep player base in certain regions tight, cause if you give them too much separated pools, search times will be long

[1KFSEA]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by MVP_ICE:

Why those who play support heroes are so rushing to end the game? They want fast game to earn more game records?

It's called "having fun".
Fighting is fun, simple as.

Although I agree - supports should be supporting. I had a game on Axe where I constantly didn't had mana to cast my ult at crucial moments only to realise that NO ONE on my team had Arcane Boots. Tranquils up the wazoo though... Probably not the reason why we lost, but definetely wasn't helping.

But role'd mm is not it. The last thing unranked needs is more avenues to get mad at your teammates.
Everyone picks whatever, everyone plays whatever, simple as.

Yeah the problem is, how is it "having fun" when 4 of your team are fighting 5, and the zues just sits to the side. When ones low kills them and runs back to base. And the rest of the teams dead. Let me know when that becomes fun?

[Kagami]

Originally posted by Smile:

Originally posted by Artek General:

It's called "having fun".
Fighting is fun, simple as.

Although I agree - supports should be supporting. I had a game on Axe where I constantly didn't had mana to cast my ult at crucial moments only to realise that NO ONE on my team had Arcane Boots. Tranquils up the wazoo though... Probably not the reason why we lost, but definetely wasn't helping.

But role'd mm is not it. The last thing unranked needs is more avenues to get mad at your teammates.
Everyone picks whatever, everyone plays whatever, simple as.

Yeah the problem is, how is it "having fun" when 4 of your team are fighting 5, and the zues just sits to the side. When ones low kills them and runs back to base. And the rest of the teams dead. Let me know when that becomes fun?

Some players having fun just to click their ability. Some having fun building item. Some having fun farming. They may lose the match but they are having fun. Because normal match is not competitive match.