MMR Manipulation

[NewSchooler]

Is consistently playing party rankedgames with guild members then switching roles so highest mmr take core mmr manipulation and isnt that bannable?
Dota Match ID 5533168036
They switch up roles so lowest mmr was support and all cores were highest mmr

[Absche]

I think this is a wanted feature with the introduction of role based mmr handicap because this „cheat“ is so apparent and Valve does nothing about it.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Games:

Is consistently playing party rankedgames with guild members then switching roles so highest mmr take core mmr manipulation and isnt that bannable?
Dota Match ID 5533168036
They switch up roles so lowest mmr was support and all cores were highest mmr

Didn't encounter this but looks like abuse to me, they should prevent this.

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by Card Gamer:

I think this is a wanted feature with the introduction of role based mmr handicap because this „cheat“ is so apparent and Valve does nothing about it.

Just make a solo strict rating and those abusers won't have easy time doing so, and have to play cm instead.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Originally posted by Card Gamer:

I think this is a wanted feature with the introduction of role based mmr handicap because this „cheat“ is so apparent and Valve does nothing about it.

Just make a solo strict rating and those abusers won't have easy time doing so, and have to play cm instead.

We could still bring team mmr, but it would still make an average of both mmr to display yours and won't solve the thing. You can't simply remove playing as a team in ranked when there is already a strict solo option for those who want.

[Absche]

Originally posted by Nagash:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Just make a solo strict rating and those abusers won't have easy time doing so, and have to play cm instead.

We could still bring team mmr, but it would still make an average of both mmr to display yours and won't solve the thing. You can't simply remove playing as a team in ranked when there is already a strict solo option for those who want.

Solo players can use that trick too. Role switching is possible at any time for any reasons. And this is fine with me because humans should have the chance to overrule the system.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Card Gamer:

Originally posted by Nagash:

We could still bring team mmr, but it would still make an average of both mmr to display yours and won't solve the thing. You can't simply remove playing as a team in ranked when there is already a strict solo option for those who want.

Solo players can use that trick too. Role switching is possible at any time for any reasons. And this is fine with me because humans should have the chance to overrule the system.

If I murder anyone but doesn't get caught, was it my right to overrule the system?
You really have weird arguments

[Absche]

Originally posted by Nagash:

Originally posted by Card Gamer:

Solo players can use that trick too. Role switching is possible at any time for any reasons. And this is fine with me because humans should have the chance to overrule the system.

If I murder anyone but doesn't get caught, was it my right to overrule the system?
You really have weird arguments

What I mean is that it is officially allowed to switch heroes. You can queue for a role but don't play it. That is perfectly fine as long as your team mates agree. Thus, as a consequence, it is no cheat to gain an advantage by switching heroes after the role attribution and the matchmaking is done. The dumb ranked role system can't handle that situation. That's it.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by Card Gamer:

Originally posted by Nagash:

If I murder anyone but doesn't get caught, was it my right to overrule the system?
You really have weird arguments

What I mean is that it is officially allowed to switch heroes. You can queue for a role but don't play it. That is perfectly fine as long as your team mates agree. Thus, as a consequence, it is no cheat to gain an advantage by switching heroes after the role attribution and the matchmaking is done. The dumb ranked role system can't handle that situation. That's it.

You can but you are not intended to, that is why a role report function exist. It is no cheat but it is an abuse of some sort. Not every abuse is cheating.

Why do you feel the urge of justifying every single abuse only because it exists?

[Absche]

Originally posted by Nagash:

Originally posted by Card Gamer:

What I mean is that it is officially allowed to switch heroes. You can queue for a role but don't play it. That is perfectly fine as long as your team mates agree. Thus, as a consequence, it is no cheat to gain an advantage by switching heroes after the role attribution and the matchmaking is done. The dumb ranked role system can't handle that situation. That's it.

You can but you are not intended to, that is why a role report function exist. It is no cheat but it is an abuse of some sort. Not every abuse is cheating.

Why do you feel the urge of justifying every single abuse only because it exists?

Hero or role switching is a native team option which has nothing to do with the role report function.

That the developers introduced a matchmaking factor which can be changed after matchmaking has been finished is just a dumb idea. One of those ideas which where needed as they were looking to implement the feature "ranked roles" from LoL but refused to learn from the LoL experience.

[【Silver】]

Isn't this just basically manual Captain's mode? Hero swap has been a basic feature players have been capable for over a decade. Swapping out hero picks to different players is pretty basic in competitive teamplay, players 'abusing' that are just being smart and taking advantage of the horrid meta play staining Dota at the moment, just like plenty of us have been doing.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by 【Silver】:

Isn't this just basically manual Captain's mode? Hero swap has been a basic feature players have been capable for over a decade. Swapping out hero picks to different players is pretty basic in competitive teamplay, players 'abusing' that are just being smart and taking advantage of the horrid meta play staining Dota at the moment, just like plenty of us have been doing.

You didn't understand, they abuse the minored mmr in least played role by swapping to play against lower average mmr team with an advantage, it is not smart it is disgusting.

[【Silver】]

Originally posted by Nagash:

Originally posted by 【Silver】:

Isn't this just basically manual Captain's mode? Hero swap has been a basic feature players have been capable for over a decade. Swapping out hero picks to different players is pretty basic in competitive teamplay, players 'abusing' that are just being smart and taking advantage of the horrid meta play staining Dota at the moment, just like plenty of us have been doing.

You didn't understand, they abuse the minored mmr in least played role by swapping to play against lower average mmr team with an advantage, it is not smart it is disgusting.

Please do elaborate for me then, as I'm out of touch with how the system matches players up other than MMR and avoid Ranked roles in regards to ranked play.

[Ulthwé]

Originally posted by 【Silver】:

Originally posted by Nagash:

You didn't understand, they abuse the minored mmr in least played role by swapping to play against lower average mmr team with an advantage, it is not smart it is disgusting.

Please do elaborate for me then, as I'm out of touch with how the system matches players up other than MMR and avoid Ranked roles in regards to ranked play.

Dota says it minors your mmr when you play a role you are bad at or you never play. People team up, they all queue for roles they don't usually play to reduce the perceived average mmr of their team and they swap role during draft using a loophole in this new system. They have higher mmr in the role they play in the end that the one they queued for.

[Absche]

Originally posted by Nagash:

Originally posted by 【Silver】:

Please do elaborate for me then, as I'm out of touch with how the system matches players up other than MMR and avoid Ranked roles in regards to ranked play.

Dota says it minors your mmr when you play a role you are bad at or you never play. People team up, they all queue for roles they don't usually play to reduce the perceived average mmr of their team and they swap role during draft using a loophole in this new system. They have higher mmr in the role they play in the end that the one they queued for.

Exactly. That comes from the time Valve was experimenting with ranked roles. One kludge after the other. Finally they botched up the support/core mmr split to the actual role handicap mmr. I was mentioning the „loophole“ from the very first day here at the forum. BTW. It is inherent with any role based mmr calculation. But I guess because this forum is more a solo player focused forum nobody reacted on my concerns at that time.

But now I’m more wise. Because it is 99% a full stack gaming thing and every full stack which goes ranked roles knows about it, it‘s not really an issue. It is only a minor correction in mmr for that particular match, far away from what a single smurf can do in fooling the matchmaker. And smurfs are accepted/tolerated in this game.