why there are ppl still think enchantress is just a supp?

[Silentkin]

i had a game just now, my teammates blame me for not buying wards, while i tell them i going carry, and they all gang up on me say "wtf supp wanna be carry, gg noob.""report that noob enchant"

[Walking Talking Potong Stim]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jei Jei the planezinho:

I wouldn't say Silencer is an ideal support, but he does well as one. Necro is not a support though and screw and anyone that thinks otherwise.

I played Silencer support yesterday. It was ok, but it was something I already had in mind rather than being forced to it.

As for Enchant, I think she's better as an offlaner core. She can use enchanted creeps to block the small camp so they can't pull, she's hard to pindown with auto attacks, she as a heal to sustain herself there... I personally don't think she's a good support. She's too fragile to heal people around her and her ult is pretty good waste on supporting.

Wait. Whaat? Necro isnt support. Can you explain please?

I'm only a newb trying to learn, I'm not mocking you or anything. I always did think Necrophos was a support. I hope you understand?

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

As Drow Ranger above stated, Enchantress, along Silencer, Windranger, Lina and Neceophos are semy carries, they can semy carry, some of them more easily than others, Wind for example, she can easily scale into a carry, or at least close to one, but she can't out carry a real carry for long.

Most (not all) people find themselves in one of two categories:

-1: They disregard the origin of the hero and claim that the hero can only be played as carry (for the 5 heroes mentioned above [Wind, Silencer, Lina, Ench and Necro]), so they disregard the fact that all 5 heroes were originally supports and they can still be played as such, not as efficient, but still. They can no longer be played as a position 5 support but they can still support if needed and help with the support job by buying and placing wards.

-2: They disregard all the nerfs and buffs that changed the heroes. So they still see the above 5 heroes as exclusive supports, even if for some, supporting is done as more of an utility hero rather than the poor ward ♥♥♥♥♥.

So again, they can carry and also support. Just because you started carry doesn't mean you can't end up supporting if you have a bad game and everyone else is playing carry and doing better than you and vice versa, with these heroes, it can mean that if you start support you cand end up carrying if you are doing really well.

[Gone_Fishing]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Traxex:

Why enchantress can't carry.

You have no Nature's Attendants before level 10, and Untouchable provides no protection against magic damage (the main damage source early on). Heroes like Queen of Pain and Nyx Assassin could very easily roam the jungle and kill you. While you're farming the rest of your team has to fight 4v5.

Black King Bar (or any form of magic immunity) blocks Untouchable and Impetus does less damage the closer you are meaning that you're easy meat for most other carries with some farm. Silences also stop you functioning very well.

Take for example a Phantom Assassin as an opponent - for your ~12,000 worth of gold ( Bloodstone + Aghanim's Scepter + Power Treads + Hand of Midas), she could get Battle Fury + Phase Boots + Black King Bar + Helm of the Dominator.

You have low agility growth and end up with only 6 armour at level 16 (~26% physical damage reduction), she has 11 + 5 from HoTD = 16 (49% reduction), plus another 40% from Blur's dodge.

You're hitting for ~96 damage at level 16, plus 18 from your Aghanim's Scepter and Power Treads (assuming set to intel) for a total of 114. Obviously this can be a lot higher if they're not magic immune and you're hitting that at range with Impetus, capped at 625 extra pure damage (nice!).

She's hitting for 96 base damage, plus 65 + +20 + 24 + 24 = 229, plus a 15% chance of doing 450% damage, which would result in a 1030 damage crit before reductions. (726 if she hit you). She has a much faster attack speed and can lifesteal 15% of her damage. If her BKB is on, and she's attacking you at melee range, you're getting no bonus/pure damage. She's reducing your damage by 49% (to 58), and also dodging 40% of your attacks (to 35 avg). She's got Phantom Strike to close the distance and you've got no magic block to stop it.

As you can see, in any kind of straight fight it's not even close, and once team's figure out you're the main threat/DPS you'll find it hard to stay out of the firing line. Obviously you do still have a chance if your team has a good stun (especially a BKB busting one) and you can pop away at long range using Impetus - but this is very situational.

You can easly kill her with LIFESTEALER. The premise that Enchantress can hard carry and is a good duelist is fundamentally incorrect. You need to accept that she can't be anything more than a semi-carry at best (situational) but is fundamentally a support hero. Basically you are undermining your own team by trying to carry.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Anubis:

As Drow Ranger above stated, Enchantress, along Silencer, Windranger, Lina and Neceophos are semy carries, they can semy carry, some of them more easily than others, Wind for example, she can easily scale into a carry, or at least close to one, but she can't out carry a real carry for long.

Most (not all) people find themselves in one of two categories:

-1: They disregard the origin of the hero and claim that the hero can only be played as carry (for the 5 heroes mentioned above [Wind, Silencer, Lina, Ench and Necro]), so they disregard the fact that all 5 heroes were originally supports and they can still be played as such, not as efficient, but still. They can no longer be played as a position 5 support but they can still support if needed and help with the support job by buying and placing wards.

-2: They disregard all the nerfs and buffs that changed the heroes. So they still see the above 5 heroes as exclusive supports, even if for some, supporting is done as more of an utility hero rather than the poor ward ♥♥♥♥♥.

So again, they can carry and also support. Just because you started carry doesn't mean you can't end up supporting if you have a bad game and everyone else is playing carry and doing better than you and vice versa, with these heroes, it can mean that if you start support you cand end up carrying if you are doing really well.

These.



If you're lucky and if you're teamed up against a stack of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, you can carry even with a treant.

I'm not suggesting that every hero is static and should only stick to their primary role. It depends on the situation.

However, if you pick a dazzle, declare yourself as a carry, declare all of your teammates as idiots and start stealing kills, getting all the runes, force the Bloodseeker on your team to buy wards, buy courier and up it, cast shallow grave on yourself and run away even though you should cast it on your tank and still be able to run away, etc. All the while your lineup is this :

Bloodseeker, Centaur, Earthshaker, Troll warlord and then you as dazzle,

then I really have nothing else to say.

The primary role is called "primary" because of a reason.
That PA you killed a couple of times and said in all chat "ez pz" ?

40+ mins later he'll come back, stacked as ♥♥♥♥ and dominate your team because you stole gold from your troll and now he has no xp and items to carry the team.

There's limit to flexibility, just like there's a point where you need to step up.

Only by keeping both of them in balance, will you be able to help your team and help yourself.

[Willy Wynn]

Enchantress is a support. You think she is what? A hard carry, a tank or a nuker? When you pick her you need to play support period. Some support heroes in the game can be played as cores like Lina and Wind for example. Enchantress is not the case. If they report you, you diserve it. People when play Enchantress these days its like people who play silencer and think they are carrys lolol. Silencer is a semi carry but need to steal a lot of inteligence to become such a thing. I hate poeple like you each play with support heroes and next they are acting like carrys and dont buy any support items, like wards, sentrys, mek and so on, and the team looses because of that.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Firefox:

Enchantress is a support. You think she is what? A hard carry, a tank or a nuker? When you pick her you need to play support period. Some support heroes in the game can be played as cores like Lina and Wind for example. Enchantress is not the case. If they report you, you diserve it. People when play Enchantress these days its like people who play silencer and think they are carrys lolol. Silencer is a semi carry but need to steal a lot of inteligence to become such a thing. I hate poeple like you each play with support heroes and next they are acting like carrys and dont buy any support items, like wards, sentrys, mek and so on, and the team looses because of that.

As I stated above, you need to keep in mind all the bufs she got, she is more of a semy carry now, especially if she starts as a solo offlane, but that doesn't mean she should start building deso-daed and call herself carry, but she can make few team oriented items along some that help her semy carry. Maybe start with drums-urn-orchid and leave Mek for someone else.

She is no longer the #5 support she once was, but not is she a #1 carry. She is more of a position #4 support or #3 offlaner. She's much better on those positions that as a #5. But that doesn't mean she can't help with wards or that she can freely KS.

[Sirlancealot]

after all of this would you belive me if i said aa can be played as a simi-cary/carry

[lulborne]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Firefox:

Enchantress is a support. You think she is what? A hard carry, a tank or a nuker? When you pick her you need to play support period. Some support heroes in the game can be played as cores like Lina and Wind for example. Enchantress is not the case. If they report you, you diserve it. People when play Enchantress these days its like people who play silencer and think they are carrys lolol. Silencer is a semi carry but need to steal a lot of inteligence to become such a thing. I hate poeple like you each play with support heroes and next they are acting like carrys and dont buy any support items, like wards, sentrys, mek and so on, and the team looses because of that. And with 2000 hours of dota you dont know she is support! Thats means you are really bad! Go check the pro games and see if anyone plays Enchantress any other way then be a support!

Actually this just means you are not following the patch notes and heroes buffs/nerfs too much these days. Calling Wind a support, like she's really a SUPPORT is even worse. Yeah, she can be played as one, doesn't mean you should do it often though or that she's good as one.

[lulborne]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Naifmando56:

Wait. Whaat? Necro isnt support. Can you explain please?

I'm only a newb trying to learn, I'm not mocking you or anything. I always did think Necrophos was a support. I hope you understand?

I guess people get this idea because Necro is an INT hero with a heal. Is that why you think he's a support? You just need to take a quick glance at his spells. I don't see a support there.

His heal is very mana costly and requires him to be close to his allies to heal, but you probably wan't to use this spell to farm and deal damage since it's a very bad skill to heal on it's own. Considering he's also very fragile and his skill requires him to be in the middle of the teamfight, you don't want to have a weak support Necro feeding on your team. Then you have his aura, that pushes lane. If you play him as a support, I suppose that can be you "harass" spell, but again, not optimal. You also have his other passive that requires him to get last hits and kills to regen himself! What an amazing support spell, don't you think? His ult actually encourages you to KS (and you should KS with Necro if the target is important).

You can play him as a support in a pinch. It will probably be better than other cores supporting like Death Prophet, Wind or QoP per example, but it's not something really useful. No disables, real slow, a very poor heal that you can't spam if you are underleved and underfarmed... If you want heroes to support that also have heals, Omni, Dazzle, Abba, Winter Wyvern... These heroes are better.

[BossGalaga]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Silentkin:

why there are ppl still think enchantress is just a supp?
i had a game just now, my teammates blame me for not buying wards, while i tell them i going carry, and they all gang up on me say "wtf supp wanna be carry, gg noob.""report that noob enchant"

In your last two Enchantress games you went 2/4/5 and then 0/7/2. You neither carried or supported.

[CleoPatch]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Prince Costanzo:

They even think that Windranger and Lina are supports. I got reported for playing them as cores.

Yeah, my friend plays a really good carry windranger but he gets flamed whenever he plays online. I play a carry invoker and get flamed for it too.

[lulborne]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Cleo:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Prince Costanzo:

They even think that Windranger and Lina are supports. I got reported for playing them as cores.

Yeah, my friend plays a really good carry windranger but he gets flamed whenever he plays online. I play a carry invoker and get flamed for it too.

I would think that your friend plays a feeding WR or just one with a very odd build because at this day and age, I can't think of anyone else still thinking that WR is a support.

[76561198292783275]

Lina is 1 x Support / 1 x Carry / 3 x Nuker / 1 x Disabler if you look ingame at the points in each area. She's really just a nuker and not a carry, so support. Windranger is is 1 x carry 1x support 1 x nuker 1 x disabler 1 x escape. Her role is not the teams main carry and is a general all round support. Invoker is a nuker at 3 points and a disabler at two points. He too is not a main carry for the team.

Enchantress has no points in carry and sucks hard at it. 2 x in support and 3 x in jungle, 2 x in pushers and 1 x in durable and disable. This is a cookie cutter support hero. back of the bus, help the team kind. Because the hero should not get gold from laning she jungles instead. She still supports the carry in lane but jungles when she can. This does not mean she goes jungle at the start and wrecks her carries laning. She goes lane and leaves all the last hits to the carry. She heals her carry in lane. She like the Dota 2 version of a Priest from WoW.

Drow ranger is 2 x in carry and 1 x in disabler and pusher but is not a front line carry. Drow ranger is a ranged carry.

[Silentkin]

Początkowo opublikowane przez BossGalaga:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Silentkin:

why there are ppl still think enchantress is just a supp?
i had a game just now, my teammates blame me for not buying wards, while i tell them i going carry, and they all gang up on me say "wtf supp wanna be carry, gg noob.""report that noob enchant"

In your last two Enchantress games you went 2/4/5 and then 0/7/2. You neither carried or supported.

the 0/7/2 was the game with the ppl who flamed me, with visage had count as abandoned due to dc for too long, the game become safe to leave, so i straight leave the game, what they have done to me like control my hero i would never know. and 2/4/3 i had also leave the game coz game was safe to leave, and husk was feeding to ursa, i saw there was no more chance for comeb

[Silentkin]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Traxex:

Lina is 1 x Support / 1 x Carry / 3 x Nuker / 1 x Disabler if you look ingame at the points in each area. She's really just a nuker and not a carry, so support. Windranger is is 1 x carry 1x support 1 x nuker 1 x disabler 1 x escape. Her role is not the teams main carry and is a general all round support. Invoker is a nuker at 3 points and a disabler at two points. He too is not a main carry for the team.

Enchantress has no points in carry and sucks hard at it. 2 x in support and 3 x in jungle, 2 x in pushers and 1 x in durable and disable. This is a cookie cutter support hero. back of the bus, help the team kind. Because the hero should not get gold from laning she jungles instead. She still supports the carry in lane but jungles when she can. This does not mean she goes jungle at the start and wrecks her carries laning. She goes lane and leaves all the last hits to the carry. She heals her carry in lane. She like the Dota 2 version of a Priest from WoW.

Drow ranger is 2 x in carry and 1 x in disabler and pusher but is not a front line carry. Drow ranger is a ranged carry.

since 6.86, i have been playing enchant as offlaner rather as a jungler. and if i did have a much better carry than enchant in my lane i will let them farm, unless somehow we got ganked and they dead, then only i will farm the lane till they b

[Schrödinger's Cathulhu]

Enchantress is at least by my eyes a core that can support. I agree dagon is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tru.