Behaviour score influencing team-coordination and ranked games. Or how this update broke teamplay.

[John Pork]

Hello, before you start bashing me and saying "just play nice and dont complain about behaviour" well, that would be ideal and I agree with it.

The problem is my friends have issues with behaviour score and the new update adds a lot of restrictions which were not implemented before. However, it does not take in consideration a couple of basic things. For example if grouping people in ranked which are above 3k behavior score and less than the behavior score required for chatting, it basically cuts all communication in a team game, you literally cant do calls, roshan or any other communication. This destroys team coordination which leads to loses, and since dota players do not like to lose they will find a player to blame, report and move on. This creates a vicious cycle on low behaviour score which wont allow people to enjoy the game or get out of the low bhv.

This update was a perfect moment for behavior score purge since people would realize that their action mattered and being toxic is heavily sanctioned, this would lead to people being more adequate and try harder to be positive and team-oriented. Instead, this alienates a big portion of dota community and forces them to deal with the new "laws" that lead to destruction of a main element that makes dota - dota and that is team playing.

[John Pork]

And I didnt even mention how a group "reporting" could ruin you. Even if you didnt grief but just had a bad game, it leads to abuse and ruins the overal experience of games, especially ranked ones.

[P R O P H Y L A X I S]

I agree completely.

Even if you are restricted to 1 chat message per minute, or even 1 per 2 minutes or something crazy like that would be infinitely better.

Just had a game where my pudge (who bought shard) would NOT eat me as necro with aghs. We still won ezpz but still it was pretty frustrating to not be able to tell him.

Behavior score at the bottom is a sink hole. You get reported for nothing and players are essentially insane a lot of the time. Mentally unwell. Even if you act perfect and have perfect conduct you can and will be reported for.. maybe you bought mana boots instead of travels, something trivial like that.

Ive said it a million times and I'll say it again, even if you have perfect conduct; you could still have a power outage, internet drops, dota buggs out, keyboard fails, mouse dies, grandma catches fire; any number of perfectly reasonable reasons you get a HUGE chunk of score deducted that you really cant help / have no control of.

So if behavior score is a sink hole at the bottom, you obviously have a very large problem. Valve has the data on this and I would bet my lifes savings I know this data proves that.

I bet you anything players at the top toss commends a lot and players at the bottom do the opposite.

Which would be one thing if it didnt massively effect games. But not only does it effect games, it effects them greatly. Punishes players and gives them no way out of a low score. Like an infinite punishment, that may or may not even be warranted.

[P R O P H Y L A X I S]

Originally posted by John Pork:

And I didnt even mention how a group "reporting" could ruin you. Even if you didnt grief but just had a bad game, it leads to abuse and ruins the overal experience of games, especially ranked ones.

Group reports count as 1 report Im pretty sure I read. You are 100% right about behav score being broken, though.

[zZzooey.exe]

group reporting never did ruin your account and still doesnt. its poor defense of frequently reported players - before it clearly stated that even if entire group reports you in a given game, it counts as 1 report toward punishment. nobody bothered to read that, went toxic on 10 games straight, encountered 1 4 man party and instantly blamed it on them.
right now you wont get punished unless you actually did the crime, so if you ''dont grief'' system can recognise it and youll be fine even if they ''gang up on you''.

as for you want to play with your friends then simply chat on discord or something. i dont think its fair to normal behaving users (which are majority believe it or not) to have 'purge' on bs where all you toxic bunches suddenly get second chance in life with a clean 10k score. it was well earned and not given to us from the get go, so no reason anyone should get it on a platter now.

[John Pork]

Originally posted by PUDGE DISMEMBER ME:

I agree completely.

Even if you are restricted to 1 chat message per minute, or even 1 per 2 minutes or something crazy like that would be infinitely better.

Just had a game where my pudge (who bought shard) would NOT eat me as necro with aghs. We still won ezpz but still it was pretty frustrating to not be able to tell him.

Behavior score at the bottom is a sink hole. You get reported for nothing and players are essentially insane a lot of the time. Mentally unwell. Even if you act perfect and have perfect conduct you can and will be reported for.. maybe you bought mana boots instead of travels, something trivial like that.

Ive said it a million times and I'll say it again, even if you have perfect conduct; you could still have a power outage, internet drops, dota buggs out, keyboard fails, mouse dies, grandma catches fire; any number of perfectly reasonable reasons you get a HUGE chunk of score deducted that you really cant help / have no control of.

So if behavior score is a sink hole at the bottom, you obviously have a very large problem. Valve has the data on this and I would bet my lifes savings I know this data proves that.

I bet you anything players at the top toss commends a lot and players at the bottom do the opposite.

Which would be one thing if it didnt massively effect games. But not only does it effect games, it effects them greatly. Punishes players and gives them no way out of a low score. Like an infinite punishment, that may or may not even be warranted.

\

my thoughts exactly, there are a lot of people with issues that want to enjoy this game, and those issues are not always connected to them being toxic, this is just sad.

[John Pork]

Originally posted by z o o e y w a v e:

group reporting never did ruin your account and still doesnt. its poor defense of frequently reported players - before it clearly stated that even if entire group reports you in a given game, it counts as 1 report toward punishment. nobody bothered to read that, went toxic on 10 games straight, encountered 1 4 man party and instantly blamed it on them.
right now you wont get punished unless you actually did the crime, so if you ''dont grief'' system can recognise it and youll be fine even if they ''gang up on you''.

as for you want to play with your friends then simply chat on discord or something. i dont think its fair to normal behaving users (which are majority believe it or not) to have 'purge' on bs where all you toxic bunches suddenly get second chance in life with a clean 10k score. it was well earned and not given to us from the get go, so no reason anyone should get it on a platter now.

Thing is I am talking about a party of people reporting one guy, in general 4 guys being mad at someone's performance and reporting him even if he didnt grief is something pretty common, especially if it leads to defeat.

[GIGACHAD 💪]

+ I agree its influencing ranked games big time

[Death by coughs]

You have to really try to get a score under 6k, so being at 3k ... yeah. You either ruined the games of others with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ internet connection and shouldn't have been playing, or are in need of emotional management classes.

[Death by coughs]

Originally posted by PUDGE DISMEMBER ME:

I agree completely.

Even if you are restricted to 1 chat message per minute, or even 1 per 2 minutes or something crazy like that would be infinitely better.

Just had a game where my pudge (who bought shard) would NOT eat me as necro with aghs. We still won ezpz but still it was pretty frustrating to not be able to tell him.

Behavior score at the bottom is a sink hole. You get reported for nothing and players are essentially insane a lot of the time. Mentally unwell. Even if you act perfect and have perfect conduct you can and will be reported for.. maybe you bought mana boots instead of travels, something trivial like that.

Ive said it a million times and I'll say it again, even if you have perfect conduct; you could still have a power outage, internet drops, dota buggs out, keyboard fails, mouse dies, grandma catches fire; any number of perfectly reasonable reasons you get a HUGE chunk of score deducted that you really cant help / have no control of.

So if behavior score is a sink hole at the bottom, you obviously have a very large problem. Valve has the data on this and I would bet my lifes savings I know this data proves that.

I bet you anything players at the top toss commends a lot and players at the bottom do the opposite.

Which would be one thing if it didnt massively effect games. But not only does it effect games, it effects them greatly. Punishes players and gives them no way out of a low score. Like an infinite punishment, that may or may not even be warranted.

At 10k Score, an abandon due to power outage only lowered me to 9800. that's not a "huge chunk" if you're not actively ruining games (and continuing to play with internet you know will keep DCing is indeed ruining it for others, etc)

[Shai-Hulud]

it's pretty obvious valve has been reducing dota resources

[76561199267091785]

I was supposed to play a ranked match, but I can't do it now because they are making it difficult. I was planning to play, especially since I have a low score not because of my fault, but because I made a pick that didn't fit the feeders on my team. Usually, it's them being toxic and reporting me for no reason. I won't play this game at all due to this stupidity.

[Sloppyeric]

all i can say is what you say and do can have consequences now. meaning and this is just to everyone in general stop treating people like ♥♥♥♥ this report system was a long time coming and it needs some work still. if you have a low behavior score then it time to stop being the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Im not saying be friends with everyone but just be respectful its not hard to do. i have a pretty high score myself and i barely talk in the game. if playing ranked is now impeded by your bad score well you need too change and be better play normal or turbo until its better and just don't be toxic. i will admit the whole can't talk thing during a match is kinda dumb however how toxic you gotta be too reach that point maybe you don't deserve to play ranked and talk and stuff if your just gonna be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to everyone. oh and if the "my teammates are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but im not and i still get punished" well i agree this is dumb but tell your friends to knock that ♥♥♥♥ off or just dont play with them.

[Absche]

Following community demands, Valve once more mixed up behavior and skill factors. More and more convenience factors influence the competitive mode of the game, which is rigging matchmaking in a way the players just asked for. Sacrificing competiveness for social streamlining. The ability/priviledge to play ranked should be only limited by mmr, the ability to play solo however should be limited by behavior/polite score. The way how they handle matchmaking is not competitive but they just follow the demands of their customers. You can say, Valve is a customer oriented company but the customers should be aware what they wish for, means to be aware of all the implications their demands have on the gameplay.

[НИГГА ХИТЛЕР]

Originally posted by Heuhauhauha:

I was supposed to play a ranked match, but I can't do it now because they are making it difficult. I was planning to play, especially since I have a low score not because of my fault, but because I made a pick that didn't fit the feeders on my team. Usually, it's them being toxic and reporting me for no reason. I won't play this game at all due to this stupidity.

Rot in hell bro,...rot in hell

[76561199267091785]

Then they should finally start punishing scripters and cheaters using bots and hacks, zooms, and so on. It's infuriatingly visible in ranked games, like a ninja with godlike skill in replays or a Tinker combo with Shiva and blink mindlessly spamming, and so on. That's what we, as customers seeking fair entertainment, will demand. Not toxic trolls who can't play and mass-reporting for a pick while the rest of the team is feeding. It's frustrating when someone picks something I don't like, but I report quietly or just ignore it and play. But someone else will spam the chat from minute one and encourage others to report, effectively ruining the whole game, introducing negativity, and so on