Phylactery dosent get triggered when using dagon? why?

[howzzat]

Dagon's spell is unit target so why dosent phylactery get triggered?

[Charles: The High Dolphin]

Haven’t tried it but isn’t it because Dagon is an item and not a spell per say?

[howzzat]

It is an item that lets us use a spell right?

[tom five]

Originally posted by Dbunny:

It is an item that lets us use a spell right?

No, it's an item with an active effect. No item based "spells" are actually coded as spells.

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

Originally posted by mf tom:

Originally posted by Dbunny:

It is an item that lets us use a spell right?

No, it's an item with an active effect. No item based "spells" are actually coded as spells.

so dagon isn't reflected with lotus?

[tom five]

Originally posted by ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ:

Originally posted by mf tom:

No, it's an item with an active effect. No item based "spells" are actually coded as spells.

so dagon isn't reflected with lotus?

It is, but spell reflection is kind of a special case because it was added into the game so late into development. Prior to AM's Counterspell and Lotus Orb, there was no such mechanic. And as I'm sure we're all well aware at this point, DotA's code is seemingly just cobbled together with tape and bubblegum.

As far as I understand it, a lot of these changes came when they tried to balance out Ability Draft (and Rubick combos, to some extent). You had things like Pudge Rot toggle triggering passives like Aftershock (which was a great time), so the way things were flagged ended up getting an overhaul and it made for some weirdness in interactions.

[ixthid the desolate]

Originally posted by mf tom:

Originally posted by ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ:

so dagon isn't reflected with lotus?

It is, but spell reflection is kind of a special case because it was added into the game so late into development. Prior to AM's Counterspell and Lotus Orb, there was no such mechanic. And as I'm sure we're all well aware at this point, DotA's code is seemingly just cobbled together with tape and bubblegum.

As far as I understand it, a lot of these changes came when they tried to balance out Ability Draft (and Rubick combos, to some extent). You had things like Pudge Rot toggle triggering passives like Aftershock (which was a great time), so the way things were flagged ended up getting an overhaul and it made for some weirdness in interactions.

its because lotus reflects items and abilties, not specifically abilities
If phylactery doesnt trigger on dagon, it means it specifically requires hero abilities to trigger
you can test out if dominated creeps will also trigger this effect to understand it better
however, it may be unique to dagon, try it with other things and see

side note: all item damage is considered spell damage, so something like maelstrom arc will deal more damage if you have more spell amp

[tom five]

It's not unique to Dagon. In the case of Phylactery, it's the same with all targeted item abilities. The reasoning, at least I suspect, being that it would end up triggering on things like Euls, which would be silly.

I think the "spell damage" is where a lot of the confusion is coming from. Spell damage is just the new magic damage. It doesn't necessarily mean that damage type is coming from a spell, and the reverse is also true, not all spells deal spell damage. Bristle and Dazzle being good examples.

[Alpha Omega Pepega]

Originally posted by mf tom:

It's not unique to Dagon. In the case of Phylactery, it's the same with all targeted item abilities. The reasoning, at least I suspect, being that it would end up triggering on things like Euls, which would be silly.

I think the "spell damage" is where a lot of the confusion is coming from. Spell damage is just the new magic damage. It doesn't necessarily mean that damage type is coming from a spell, and the reverse is also true, not all spells deal spell damage. Bristle and Dazzle being good examples.

All is it is them forgeting to change string of the item.Which is the case with many of them.
I always send back to the fact,that oracle ulti didnt say,it is scaling it cast range with level for like 2 years after change.
Thats why lotus does reflect items and this thing does not get triggered by them.
Spell damage part i dont understand tho. Its called spell damage instead of magic damage,because there are 3 spell damage types : magic,phycial and pure. Bristles and dazzles spells do get buffed by spell damage buffs.

[Ragnoraok]

Originally posted by mf tom:

It's not unique to Dagon. In the case of Phylactery, it's the same with all targeted item abilities. The reasoning, at least I suspect, being that it would end up triggering on things like Euls, which would be silly.

I think the "spell damage" is where a lot of the confusion is coming from. Spell damage is just the new magic damage. It doesn't necessarily mean that damage type is coming from a spell, and the reverse is also true, not all spells deal spell damage. Bristle and Dazzle being good examples.

Bristleback deals spell damage, hence why spell steal items like Bloodstone synergizes well with him.

[Ragnoraok]

Originally posted by Alpha Omega Pepega:

Originally posted by mf tom:

It's not unique to Dagon. In the case of Phylactery, it's the same with all targeted item abilities. The reasoning, at least I suspect, being that it would end up triggering on things like Euls, which would be silly.

I think the "spell damage" is where a lot of the confusion is coming from. Spell damage is just the new magic damage. It doesn't necessarily mean that damage type is coming from a spell, and the reverse is also true, not all spells deal spell damage. Bristle and Dazzle being good examples.

All is it is them forgeting to change string of the item.Which is the case with many of them.
I always send back to the fact,that oracle ulti didnt say,it is scaling it cast range with level for like 2 years after change.
Thats why lotus does reflect items and this thing does not get triggered by them.
Spell damage part i dont understand tho. Its called spell damage instead of magic damage,because there are 3 spell damage types : magic,phycial and pure. Bristles and dazzles spells do get buffed by spell damage buffs.

Yep, this is the correct answer. The tooltips and descriptions for items and spells are notoriously inconsistent, confusing, or flat out wrong. This is why you have to thoroughly test out interactions in Demo mode, because sometimes the descriptions say 1 thing but it is coded/programmed to do something else.

[ixthid the desolate]

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

Originally posted by Alpha Omega Pepega:

All is it is them forgeting to change string of the item.Which is the case with many of them.
I always send back to the fact,that oracle ulti didnt say,it is scaling it cast range with level for like 2 years after change.
Thats why lotus does reflect items and this thing does not get triggered by them.
Spell damage part i dont understand tho. Its called spell damage instead of magic damage,because there are 3 spell damage types : magic,phycial and pure. Bristles and dazzles spells do get buffed by spell damage buffs.

Yep, this is the correct answer. The tooltips and descriptions for items and spells are notoriously inconsistent, confusing, or flat out wrong. This is why you have to thoroughly test out interactions in Demo mode, because sometimes the descriptions say 1 thing but it is coded/programmed to do something else.

Im not sure that theyre often 'wrong', I found the interactions made much more sense than league lol.

[Ragnoraok]

Originally posted by Atthabann:

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

Yep, this is the correct answer. The tooltips and descriptions for items and spells are notoriously inconsistent, confusing, or flat out wrong. This is why you have to thoroughly test out interactions in Demo mode, because sometimes the descriptions say 1 thing but it is coded/programmed to do something else.

Im not sure that theyre often 'wrong', I found the interactions made much more sense than league lol.

Its not just the interactions; its the actual descriptions that are needlessly confusing or misleading.

For example Luna's Blessing says that Luna gets 200% the bonus given to allies. If this was actually true, then her attack bonus should increase with each ally in her vicinity. However, what the game ACTUALLY means is that she gets twice the flat bonus . What is perplexing is that Luna gets twice the bonus regardless if allies are present, so that entire line is pointlessly long just to be misleading anyways.

Doom's scepter says that allies around the radius suffer from Doom's effect, which would mean that Doom's teammates should be Doomed. However, this is completely opposite to how Doom's Scepter works. In practice, enemies around the radius are doomed.

Also, Nullifier states that it continuously dispels when in reality it dispels in intervals. This is why even though Enchantress ult is dispellable, Nullifier doesn't do anything because in-between intervals her ultimate reinstates. The key here is that the word continuous means always present and as such there shouldn't be a period where Enchantress' ultimate is not dispelled. As such, the term continuously should be replaced with periodically. TBH, I don't even know why it says that Enchantress' ultimate is dispellable since it can only be nullified by using break like all other passives.

For added hilarity, on the Hero screen Tusk's Frozen Sigil is present, but in-game no such ability exist. Apparently this was a longstanding bug that either returned or was never fixed.

The discrepancy between items reflecting against Lotus Orb but not proccing Phylactery is a more recent example.

DOTA's quality control is sloppy just like the developer's management of the game. IDK about League, but DOTA is the only AAA MOBA that I have played where descriptions are sometimes inaccurate or convoluted. Even SMITE is able to accurately convey character kits and items even though descriptions in SMITE are quite lengthy.

[ixthid the desolate]

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

Originally posted by Atthabann:

Im not sure that theyre often 'wrong', I found the interactions made much more sense than league lol.

Its not just the interactions; its the actual descriptions that are needlessly confusing or misleading.

For example Luna's Blessing says that Luna gets 200% the bonus given to allies. If this was actually true, then her attack bonus should increase with each ally in her vicinity. However, what the game ACTUALLY means is that she gets twice the flat bonus.

Also, Nullifier states that it continuously dispels when in reality it dispels in intervals. This is why even though Enchantress ult is dispellable, Nullifier doesn't do anything because in-between intervals her ultimate reinstates.

TBH, I don't even know why it says that Enchantress' ultimate is dispellable since it can only be nullified by using break like all other passives.

I mean, if you think that when reading Luna's skills, idk what to tell you lol. That's your own reading problem, it's very clear in what it means and it doesn't mention anything about multiplying the damage when you're near other allies. How do you even read the skill and think up something like that?

It's very funny you don't understand how ench ult works but you talk like you do. Her ult puts a debuff on you. Nullifier only dispells buffs on enemies, it wont dispel a debuff on you LMAO

Please, give us more of your unending dota 2 knowledge.

[Ragnoraok]

Originally posted by Atthabann:

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

Its not just the interactions; its the actual descriptions that are needlessly confusing or misleading.

For example Luna's Blessing says that Luna gets 200% the bonus given to allies. If this was actually true, then her attack bonus should increase with each ally in her vicinity. However, what the game ACTUALLY means is that she gets twice the flat bonus.

Also, Nullifier states that it continuously dispels when in reality it dispels in intervals. This is why even though Enchantress ult is dispellable, Nullifier doesn't do anything because in-between intervals her ultimate reinstates.

TBH, I don't even know why it says that Enchantress' ultimate is dispellable since it can only be nullified by using break like all other passives.

I mean, if you think that when reading Luna's skills, idk what to tell you lol. That's your own reading problem, it's very clear in what it means and it doesn't mention anything about multiplying the damage when you're near other allies. How do you even read the skill and think up something like that?

It's very funny you don't understand how ench ult works but you talk like you do. Her ult puts a debuff on you. Nullifier only dispells buffs on enemies, it wont dispel a debuff on you LMAO

Please, give us more of your unending dota 2 knowledge.

I was wrong about Enchantress' ultimate.

With regards to Luna, you are flat out incorrect. Its basic reading comprehension. If the skill says that you get 200% added to bonuses given to allies then that means that it compounds based on how many allies there are in vicinity. Your statements about multiplying based on multiple allies is EXACTLY what the current wording suggests, and you have to either be illiterate or ignorant to how sentences are structured to not understand this. Otherwise you would leave out the allies part especially since it is completely irrelevant to the bonus that Luna receives.

[Ben Lubar]

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

For example Luna's Blessing says that Luna gets 200% the bonus given to allies. If this was actually true, then her attack bonus should increase with each ally in her vicinity. However, what the game ACTUALLY means is that she gets twice the flat bonus . What is perplexing is that Luna gets twice the bonus regardless if allies are present, so that entire line is pointlessly long just to be misleading anyways.

There is a stat on the ability called "Attack Damage Bonus (Allies)". I'm not sure why you think the description means Luna gets stats multiplied by the number of nearby allies. It clearly says "200%", not "multiplied by the number of allies".

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

Doom's scepter says that allies around the radius suffer from Doom's effect, which would mean that Doom's teammates should be Doomed. However, this is completely opposite to how Doom's Scepter works. In practice, enemies around the radius are doomed.

Allies of the target are affected by Doom. The effect is on the target.

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

Also, Nullifier states that it continuously dispels when in reality it dispels in intervals. This is why even though Enchantress ult is dispellable, Nullifier doesn't do anything because in-between intervals her ultimate reinstates. The key here is that the word continuous means always present and as such there shouldn't be a period where Enchantress' ultimate is not dispelled. As such, the term continuously should be replaced with periodically. TBH, I don't even know why it says that Enchantress' ultimate is dispellable since it can only be nullified by using break like all other passives.

Nullifier cannot target allies and therefore cannot dispell the debuff applied by Untouchable.

Originally posted by Ragnoraok:

For added hilarity, on the Hero screen Tusk's Frozen Sigil is present, but in-game no such ability exist. Apparently this was a longstanding bug that either returned or was never fixed.

That is odd and you should report it.