Let's make a League of Legends character to counter an already Nerfed to Death playstyle.

[Judge Cudge]

Muerta is disgusting garbage, and Pugna, in addition to being nerfed into the ground instead of simply removing wraith pact, which never belonged in the game to begin with, still got 2 other counters put in for decrep after that.

Then they released a dedicated janklord anti decrep character afterwards for no reason.

I can't imagine her ult is good against any normal team, as it prevents her from hitting bkbed targets, ie literally anyone post 20 minutes, and all of her moves have 'rockin cool contrived platespinning internal complexity' that those action packed leet gaming league players will never leave their preferred gaming purgatory to enjoy.

Thanks for pandering to the opposite of your audience and filling an unnecessarily over-countered niche at once. Really firing on all cylinders with bad design and betrayal of your audience at once.

[dota matthäus]

hope you feel better now you spat out your anger. don't work yourself up mate, it's just a game. people will adapt and of course not all players have to like her, same as other loved/hated heroes that still exist despite some players want them gone.
i like her ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Judge Cudge]

Originally posted by fubert:

hope you feel better now you spat out your anger. don't work yourself up mate, it's just a game. people will adapt and of course not all players have to like her, same as other loved/hated heroes that still exist despite some players want them gone.
i like her ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nothing about adaptation will undo what has been done, change their design philosophy, or remove the unfitting character from the game. Nice smarm though.

[⚡Judge Zed⚡]

Thanks valve for not making her so broken on release everyone just free wins picking her.

Her W is one of the best early game spells, possibly even the best level 1 spell in the game. You should go take the most contested rune with it at game start.

Her Q is extremely OP for winning lanes by fearing people in to you and your tower, and also combos well with W.

E is one of the best passives in the game in combination with her exceptionally good attack animation.

Ultimate is extremely good at countering the ultimates of other carry heroes such as Juggernaut, Slark, Void as its not just damage it makes you IMMUNE to physical without the draw-back of being ethereal.

She's not very easy to play so please git gud before you go on a rant. This isn't League after all.

Besides all that this patch very firmly addresses a lot of the OP stuff that's at the front of the meta. So good job Valve.

If you want to rant about something rant about Earth Spirit E and Aghanim's spell not working on boulders since latest patch.

[Judge Cudge]

Nothing about her being difficult to play, overly good, or overly bad is why I'm complaining, Invoker is difficult to play and I don't criticize him.

I'm complaining because the character does not fit in this video game, and has an ult that counters an already nerfed to death strategy. It's incorrect design, period.

Quadrangle spinny interconditional zones in an aoe, and a target requiring vector drag skill with a specifically angled fear debuff is exactly the kind of thing you would expect in a game whose skill ceiling is located within the precision of the execution of abilities and not the where, when, if, and 'on who' of the abilities.

League being macro light is the former, Dota being macro heavy is the latter.

If this braindead imitation of this games competitor keeps up, sooner or later we're going to be picking up 'doohickies' off the ground every time we auto-attack to get a stack of the third paragraph of our passive that in between the count of 20-30 on the next skillshot on an enemy hero that has been hit by soft (but not hard) cc we'll gain a 3 second 5% movespeed buff (degrading) that if we kill a separate hero during which we get a permanent .1% stack of soft cc duration reduction.

Counter-complaining the terrible decisions of the offdev team that in Icefrog's confirmed absence from development, has been designing real winners like centaurs new aghs isn't going to make the game any better. It's going to make it worse.

[⚡Judge Zed⚡]

Even if it is an imitation of this game's competitor, its not a bad one. I don't hate the very few vector targeting skills we have and it honestly feels pretty decent to have another. After watching some Muerta games I can see the impact of its good usage but its well in-line with the power of other heroes. So while I do agree that the addition of this hero does shift the game more towards precise execution of certain skills I do not think this is a bad thing. Also, there are already a few of these in the game such as shackle shot, Meepo's net and every skill of Earth Spirit which have been in the game since forever(not mentioning any of the more recent ones such as void spirit, hoodwink, pango etc). So once again its nice to see some more.

I'm all for the addition of more complex heroes and mechanics because I've played this game for 10 years and I don't want it to become boring. I understand some people just want to play the same damn thing and I personally know people who hate every change since 2014, but I do not.

A prime example of the evolution of dota is anti-mage. Used to be you pressed 1 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ button (blink) and occasionally ult, it was the definition of "brain-dead". Now you have to often use your E spell as a "skill-shot" to block spells. Hero became a bit harder to play, and is more fun to play and fight as a result.

[Princess]

Originally posted by Judge Cudge:

sooner or later we're going to be picking up 'doohickies' off the ground every time we auto-attack to get a stack of the third paragraph of our passive that in between the count of 20-30 on the next skillshot on an enemy hero that has been hit by soft (but not hard) cc we'll gain a 3 second 5% movespeed buff (degrading) that if we kill a separate hero during which we get a permanent .1% stack of soft cc duration reduction.

I CANT BREATH

[⚡Judge Zed⚡]

You should check out some of the cool spells they have in that custom mode called 1x6. Wouldn't mind seeing some of those spells and effects in dota tbh. There's certainly a lot they could do.

[Judge Cudge]

Originally posted by Einherjar:

"Even if it is an imitation of this game's competitor, its not a bad one."

It is if the design philosophies are at odds with each other or crowd each other out.

Originally posted by Einherjar:

"I don't hate the very few vector targeting skills we have and it honestly feels pretty decent to have another."

That's cool, this one is the most conditional and precision dependent ever added to the game.
Regardless of the fact that many other ones are also out of place, this one is a degree further.

Originally posted by Einherjar:

"After watching some Muerta games I can see the impact of its good usage but its well in-line with the power of other heroes. So while I do agree that the addition of this hero does shift the game more towards precise execution of certain skills I do not think this is a bad thing."

You being comfortable with the game becoming something it isn't doesn't somehow transform it to being a tolerable state of affairs.

For instance, I have a preference for Battlerite's combat system over the ones found in any other moba game.
Me enjoying the flat removal of autoattacks with the replacement of autoattack skills doesn't undo the fact that such a change would be a betrayal of the core audience's rightful expectations for this game.
As a result, I wouldn't advocate for it here even though I personally would enjoy a Dota Battlerite Fusion more than Dota on its own.

You liking League of Dota doesn't make it right.

Originally posted by Einherjar:

"Also, there are already a few of these in the game such as shackle shot, Meepo's net and every skill of Earth Spirit which have been in the game since forever(not mentioning any of the more recent ones such as void spirit, hoodwink, pango etc). So once again its nice to see some more."

Meepo's net and shackle shot are not in the same category as these. And every other example you mentioned is a modern transgressor that I would also advocate for removing. Poop already being in the soup is not a reason to add more, nor surrender to Diarrhea as the soup's new exciting primary flavor.

Originally posted by Einherjar:

"I'm all for the addition of more complex heroes and mechanics because I've played this game for 10 years and I don't want it to become boring. I understand some people just want to play the same damn thing and I personally know people who hate every change since 2014, but I do not."

Me too, but there are some good changes and some bad, and 'skill execution' heroes of this particular kind are bad and don't belong.

You can make good interesting heroes that are challenging to pilot but require a Dota 2 set of skills to play well.
Oracle, Wisp, Invoker, Meepo, Morphling, and Rubick being prime examples of ones, if the current stand-in dev is resorting to "make the aim/aoe weird and up the power by 15%" they're running out of suitable ideas and using unsuitable ones.

Originally posted by Einherjar:

"A prime example of the evolution of dota is anti-mage. Used to be you pressed 1 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ button (blink) and occasionally ult, it was the definition of "brain-dead". Now you have to often use your E spell as a "skill-shot" to block spells. Hero became a bit harder to play, and is more fun to play and fight as a result."

Brain dead champions need to exist in order for new players to even theoretically have an avenue to penetrate the autistic density of this game. I would easily advocate for AM and SK to get their near buttonless gameplay restored.
Not every champion needs to be ecstatically fun to play, some of them just need to work. Even in league there are men who lack paragraphs of text and plates to spin, and that's on purpose.

There are tons of different heroes to pick from if you want something more toothsome, and different games to play if you want twitch precision to matter.

[⚡Judge Zed⚡]

@Judge Cudge

You not liking new hero doesn't make it bad. I think its great :) Exceptionally good design and fun to play. Not generally overpowered but geared towards a role, exactly the carry hero people have been asking for. Great job by Valve in my opinion.

[Judge Cudge]

Originally posted by Einherjar:

@Judge Cudge You not liking new patch doesn't make it bad. I think its great :)

Yep, it being bad is what makes it bad. Which I explained.

[⚡Judge Zed⚡]

@Judge Cudge Your explanation is wrong and your logic is flawed. It is very good, only in your opinion is it bad. Your opinion is wrong :)

[Judge Cudge]

Originally posted by Einherjar:

@Judge Cudge Your explanation is wrong and your logic is flawed.

Really now? Explain.

[SiameseBolognaSandwhich]

Originally posted by Judge Cudge:

Muerta is disgusting garbage, and Pugna, in addition to being nerfed into the ground instead of simply removing wraith pact, which never belonged in the game to begin with, still got 2 other counters put in for decrep after that.

Then they released a dedicated janklord anti decrep character afterwards for no reason.

I can't imagine her ult is good against any normal team, as it prevents her from hitting bkbed targets, ie literally anyone post 20 minutes, and all of her moves have 'rockin cool contrived platespinning internal complexity' that those action packed leet gaming league players will never leave their preferred gaming purgatory to enjoy.

Thanks for pandering to the opposite of your audience and filling an unnecessarily over-countered niche at once. Really firing on all cylinders with bad design and betrayal of your audience at once.

gesus what a ♥♥♥♥ take. if you play with your brain instead of staring at qop's tits, youd play better

[Judge Cudge]

Nah this character is certainly contrived garbage who doesn't fit in the game, but if you have an actual reason for thinking otherwise then say so.

[⚡Judge Zed⚡]

Originally posted by Judge Cudge:

Originally posted by Einherjar:

@Judge Cudge Your explanation is wrong and your logic is flawed.

Really now? Explain.

According to you its bad because it copies League. But League is a very successful extremely popular game. There's no reason why copying something from League automatically makes it bad.

Also I know ZERO about league, but I know a LOT about dota. I'm 5600MMR you can see screenshot on my profile, and in my opinion Muerta is exactly the hero community has been asking for, niche pick position 1 hero with a major focus on right-clicking, her skills feel very unique and she is fun to play and not cancer to play against. This is good design.