How to make Dota 2 community a toxic free community

[<hope>]

Hello guys, I want to open this topic for us to brainstorm to help the community find a solution against toxic players ( either verbally or griefing).

My suggestions would be temporary bans from playing in case of toxicity.

Most of the players invested money i battle passes and skins over the years and we still enjoy playing this game when we have a friendly team even if we lose.

I think we have to ban bad behaviour as it is affecting other players games and I am pretty sure players will think twice to curse or to destroy their items if their account gets banned for 3 months.

They will take this period to calm down and think twice before doing this again.

[Codsworth]

It's a lack of sympathy for other people, I've had games where I've given or received advice instead of abuse and we've seen immediate improvement and sometimes actually turned the game around.

[AssMaster69]

So you are advocating for censorship and banning...which I've also advocated for in the past(but have realized it wasn't such a black and white issue that has an easy solution.

You need to realize that there are different shades of toxicity(some extremely warranted and justified). The first type, most common type comes from unwarranted flaming and cursing/name calling etc which is disruptive and THANK LORD we have the insta-mute option which persists even after the game.

The second type of toxicity actually arise from callous and game-ruining behaviors or play styles (most commonly afk farming in one's own jungle while team is pushing and playing the right parts of the map with the right item timings and power spikes etc).

This type of gameplay usually leads 3-4 other players on a team to become incredibly frustrated and toxic since from their experience and knowledge of the game from over the years immediately indicate to them that the game has been ruined to some extent and you see this type of stuff quite often even at the highest mmr games.

So my point is, there's no one easy solution to just ban out or rule out toxicity as one form of it is egregious while the other is somewhat warranted.

For the sake of your own health and mental well-being, I would suggest waiting for a fresh patch and fresh meta where players approach the game with a renewed sense of enthusiasm and willingness to actually play again.

I firmly believe that this piece of ♥♥♥♥ game is not properly maintained with wayyyyyy too slow-paced of meta changes that usually leads to the most degenerative s hi t in pubs that usually leads to an overall lower quality of pub games over time and naturally creates a more toxic player base in general. This game generates cancer within the game which sometimes spill over into irl as well.

[Onjaki]

Mute everibudy.

[Absche]

Punishments, punishments. I miss ideas on rewarding positive gaming instead of punishing negative behavior. Preventing and mitigating negative behavior is the key and not reacting afterwards if it happens.

[Vote Quimby]

Make game subscription only.

[:D]

Create your own team. problem solved

[cokoqu]

all good and bad things exist in the world, if you want all good go to heaven

[Zockolade]

1. Create a fair matchmaking system. I see far to often that opponents already very different when it comes to MMR values.

2. Rank matches are only joinable while activating Valves authenticator from the same IP as the Dota 2 client. (That will already reduce a lot of smurfs)

3. While playing Role Queue you get only the hero to choose from that fit into your role description.

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

Toxicity is fomented by Valves force streak matchmaking. Fix matchmaking, to improve the communities health. EOMM is toxic and manipulative at its core. Give us ELO instead

[﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽]

Originally posted by H O P E @ puNk`d:

Hello guys, I want to open this topic for us to brainstorm to help the community find a solution against toxic players ( either verbally or griefing).

My suggestions would be temporary bans from playing in case of toxicity.

Most of the players invested money i battle passes and skins over the years and we still enjoy playing this game when we have a friendly team even if we lose.

I think we have to ban bad behaviour as it is affecting other players games and I am pretty sure players will think twice to curse or to destroy their items if their account gets banned for 3 months.

They will take this period to calm down and think twice before doing this again.

In order to solve dota 2 toxicity you need to solve the origin of the toxicity in dota 2 which is the skill difference between teams from matchmaking thus solving toxicity requires solving matchmaking
The rest of the solutions dota 2 devs had implemented over the years are just patches on the wound not directly solving or get rid of the problem sometimes even the devs are the source of the toxicity by secretly manipulating the type of games certain player get matched with for example sending the player they didn't like to hidden pool cuz they didn't like x player which have been seen in the past before in reddit threads this is non investigated source that players can't test and confirm due to secrecy around this information

Your suggestion of temp ban can avoided by creating new accounts with new hardware which toxic players are extremely good at that because they know the system better than the devs cuz devs made them to do this

Friendly condition can only be met once team is balanced properly otherwise that condition will never be met

There will always be toxic players who will never improve their toxicity they can go to hidden pool however sometimes even innocent players will be sent to this pool by the devs without the players knowing it leading to creation of new toxic players within the player pool for example in matchmaking every player is forced to have experimental matchmaking on as default thus most players do not informed consent on type of matchmaking players will be dealing with these experimental matchmaking games have "varied" behaviour score players which matches non toxic and toxic players in the game due to high que time leading to low quality and highly toxic games which was deliberately done by the dota 2 devs

I've been educating and warning this on dota 2 forums here but I can't on social media for some reason they keep on getting shadow banned thus no outreach

Source of the origin is devs incompetence on matchmaking leading to problems further down the game solve the source get rid of the problem

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

I'm still of opinion toxicity is caused by players frustrated with loss streaks. Players aren't by default toxic, and for many its a method of either coping or venting.

[Си́нтез]

Originally posted by sexo:

In order to solve dota 2 toxicity you need to solve the origin of the toxicity in dota 2 which is the skill difference between teams from matchmaking thus solving toxicity requires solving matchmaking

I have to disagree.

You can tweak matchmaking as many times as you like, people will still clash. Game is complex and you have short amount of time to cooperate with people, who you never met, never saw, never talked about and you all have different views on the game outcome. You have one view of the game, the guy on your lane has slightly different view of how the game should proceed. Your views clash, you show each other your true face (the negativity, that we were taught to surpress our whole lives.

People enconter that surpressed reactivity and start blaming dota, dota matchmaking, dota developers. None of these have anything to do with your surpressed emotions. You can add the longest possible formula to matchmaking algorithm and wait for an hour or two to find a mythical 4 people, who are perfect for you. And by the end of the game you will still clash, cause they all will have their own idea of the game supposed to go.

See, the traffic laws are the same across the country. So... where does the road rage come from? Cause roads need to be improved? Make traffic signs more colorful or shiny? Make cars honk funny noises? No. When you drive, you have to surrender some amount of your attention. When someone violently enters your "driving state" with the "hey, what are you doing ,you are driving wrong" some of your normal social guard mechanisms are down. And you are hurt a lot more. Same in dota. You surrender some control of yourself to the game. Then someone enters your safe zone by questioning your point of view. With no social guard mechanisms up, you show everyone the toxicity, and others respond with toxicity. Dota rage lol

[﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽]

Originally posted by Graggle S.:

Originally posted by sexo:

In order to solve dota 2 toxicity you need to solve the origin of the toxicity in dota 2 which is the skill difference between teams from matchmaking thus solving toxicity requires solving matchmaking

I have to disagree.

You can tweak matchmaking as many times as you like, people will still clash. Game is complex and you have short amount of time to cooperate with people, who you never met, never saw, never talked about and you all have different views on the game outcome. You have one view of the game, the guy on your lane has slightly different view of how the game should proceed. Your views clash, you show each other your true face (the negativity, that we were taught to surpress our whole lives.

People enconter that surpressed reactivity and start blaming dota, dota matchmaking, dota developers. None of these have anything to do with your surpressed emotions. You can add the longest possible formula to matchmaking algorithm and wait for an hour or two to find a mythical 4 people, who are perfect for you. And by the end of the game you will still clash, cause they all will have their own idea of the game supposed to go.

See, the traffic laws are the same across the contry. So... where do the road rage come from? Cause roads need to be improved? Make traffic signs more colorful or shiny? Make cars honk funny noises? No. When you drive, you have to surrender some amount of your attention. When someone violently enters your "driving state" with the "hey, what are you doing ,you are driving wrong" some of your normal social guard mechanisms are down. And you are hurt a lot more. Same in dota. You surrender some control of yourself to the game. Then someone enters your safe zone by questioning your point of view. With no social guard mechanisms up, you show everyone the toxicity, and others respond with toxicity. Dota rage lol

What you've said is true difference in players game perspective+skill will lead to conflict in team based games but you should realise that same perspective can be inferred using data analytics which dota + have tons of to match x players with x perspective if dota 2 devs wanted to reduce the toxicity from difference in player's game perspective


"People enconter that surpressed reactivity and start blaming dota, dota matchmaking, dota developers. None of these have anything to do with your surpressed emotions. You can add the longest possible formula to matchmaking algorithm and wait for an hour or two to find a mythical 4 people, who are perfect for you. And by the end of the game you will still clash, cause they all will have their own idea of the game supposed to go."

In this scenario at least the toxicity is reduced to its limits and whatever conflicts that will occur/remain in this scenario will be purely functional game related toxicity which often happens in high stressful environment and no on can change that sure but the current toxicity level is not at late stage yet because several levels of toxicity haven't been solved either due to incompetence, laziness or deliberate intent

Even by game design anything that includes scarcity of resources will always end up having conflict between others between enemies and allies

If you're offended by functional toxicity in high stressful environment then best advice is to leave which is often the advice given in dota 2 forums and community however what you and many others fail to realise is that majority heck even the all of the toxicity in dota 2 have been deliberately induced through the matchmaking game itself rather than natural functional toxicity which we the players want to solve here
Read the title:"How to make Dota 2 community a toxic free community"

You realise that your example of traffic law rage is similar to the dota 2 situation here if the system managed laws+rules properly like matchmaking toxicity aka road rage will be very rare example in china road rage is the least frequent event in the entire world for this reason because you will be penalised in social credit score for doing so

What you're currently doing is just giving info which may be true without any potential solutions for devs to implement here and dodging the potential solutions that can be implemented to reduce it well which is essentially defending the game and current status quo in case you don't notice what you're doing

Why has devs done everything to increase toxicity in terms of speed and implementation?
Why were devs so slow to implement even basic non toxicity solutions such as behaviour score, banning for griefing etc ? because its not their priority to solve toxicity simple as that and its intentional

[Си́нтез]

Originally posted by sexo:

What you've said is true difference in players game perspective+skill will lead to conflict in team based games but you should realise that same perspective can be inferred using data analytics which dota + have tons of to match x players with x perspective if dota 2 devs wanted to reduce the toxicity from difference in player's game perspective

No, all those stats are useless for toxicity. It is like measuring feet. You have size 8.5, mine is 8. Does that tell you anything about our compatibility? Of how we are going to perform in a team? You are able to do 435-pound squats , I can read 3 comic books per hour. Dota stats just tell you so broad and useless things, that will never even remotely predict , how our personality or point of view may or may not clash in the game. So, I can have this much last hits per minute. So.... how is this going to cancel all your knowledge of the game and make you accept any of my decisions? The thng is, Valve does actaully know very little about us, but even if they do... Most players will clash for the simple reason they want to have control over the game. Up to 5 captains on one sheep, each looking at each other with suspicion already. Valve are powerless to fix that scenario with any amount of mm modifications

Originally posted by sexo:

majority heck even the all of the toxicity in dota 2 have been deliberately induced through the matchmaking game itself rather than natural functional toxicity which we the players want to solve here

It is all coming 100% from the player. Game doesn't induce, it just helps you see the reality of what is under the mask. Many people say "hey I don't want to see that, that must be the game not me." And so we have the growing club of "dota is deliberately toxic game".

Originally posted by sexo:

You realise that your example of traffic law rage is similar to the dota 2 situation here if the system managed laws+rules properly like matchmaking toxicity aka road rage will be very rare example in china road rage is the least frequent event in the entire world for this reason

Yeah, I am pretty sure they have their own problems with anger surpression, that take slightly other forms. I mean, news over there report only "positivity" so it could get ugly what is truly going on in the dark corners. The road rage overall has one huge roadblock - a lot of times you know that you will get heavy penalty or the other driver will "raise the stakes" so to speak. In dota there is no such a threat, so you have way less reasons to stop yourself. You don't play dota with your family, but you often drive with them, so many people would just weight the situation and decide to swallow the anger.

Originally posted by sexo:

What you're currently doing is just giving info which may be true without any potential solutions for devs to implement here and dodging the potential solutions that can be implemented to reduce it well

Why has devs done everything to increase toxicity in terms of speed and implementation?
Why were devs so slow to implement even basic non toxicity solutions such as behaviour score, banning for griefing etc ? because its not their priority to solve toxicity simple as that and its intentional

Dota developers don't have to do anything with this. It is not their job to fix society, they just sell video games, cases. The game in question happens to be one of the best tools in a video game world to expose people's surpressed anger. The only solution would be to remove any competetive edge from dota and make it a "friendly racing" type of game, where everyone wins or at least there is nothing at stake in terms of game story or game mechanics

[ixthid the desolate]

/muteall