DON'T BE FOOLED BY ARMOR AND EVASION

[Fim]

Acoording to the Dota 2 items, evasion stacks diminishngly, meaning each source of it is less effective. And by putting your cursor over the stats if your hero, you can see the armor. Each point of armor appears to less valuable than the last. While in one way of thinking, both of these are true, in fact it actually has quite the opposite effect. For the simplicity of the expanation, think of this: Item A grants 50% evasion. In this, ignore items that pierce armor, and ignore any sort of damage that ignores armor, just to make it simpler. Since this item grant 50% evasion, it effectively grants 100% bonus health, because for every point of damage you take, there is one that you don't take. So lets say that your hero has 500 health. Now they have effectively 1000 health. Now say you buy another item A. It stacks 'diminishingly', meaning that instead of granting another 50% evasion (that wouldn't be op), it only grants 50% on the remaining 50%, meaning the 50% for which you don't already have evasion. So it grants 25%, amking you total 75% evasion. Is what the item said right? Does it actually stack diminishngly? Well, now, for every point damage you take, you will evade 3 other points. This grants you effectively 300% bonus healh in all, making your effective total health 2000! So, did the second one actauuly grant more effective health? Yes, it did. Each item that grants 50% evasion would acutally double your effective health. If you had 6 of them on a 500 health hero, you would have 64000! effective health. Wow. (And no, that wasn't a typo.) So for this case, each source is more effective than the last!
Well, there are no items wich grant 50% evasion in Dota 2. But there is and item that grandts 30% and one that grants 25%. Lets look at the 25% one, because it makes the math easier. So, we can think of the 25% percent evasion as blocking 1/4 of all attacks. So, you get hit on the other 3/4 of attacks. So for every 3 attacks you get hit with, you evade one attack. So this grants 33% effective bonus health, which would make your 500 health hero have 667 effective health. (167 bonus.) The next one would grant 25% on the remaining 75%, so it would grant 19% more, for a total of 44% evasion. This comes out to 893 health, which is 226 additional from the 667 health. So again, each source is actually more effective that the previous, even though it grants less actuall evasion. One you 500 health hero, with six of this tiem that grants 25% (also known as talaisman of evasion), you would have 2,777 effective health.

Now we move on to armor. It turns out that it's actually the same wiht armor. Each point give less physically damage resistance than the last, but it acutally gives more effecitve helath. However, they don't display the actually formula for the armor, so I can't give you any actuall statistics on it. But it's basically the same as evasion, but with preventing a percent of each attack rather than all of a percent of the attacks.

And heare, to sum it all up: EACH SOURCE OF EVASION IS MORE EFFECTIVE THAN THE LAST, NO MATTER WHAT THE GAME SAYS. THE SAME GOES FOR EACH POINT OF ARMOR.

[rel1kz]

Game govnou

[Fim]

Origineel geplaatst door Matau99:

Origineel geplaatst door Sky Marshall Sanders:

The op is wrong, there aren't greater returns for armor or evasion. Each point of armor grants the same amount of effective hp as each other point. While evasion multiplies, stacking it is impracticle and foolish given that there are ways to negate it and the sources are relatively expensive.

Indeed. Armor gives you +6% EHP per point.

EXACTLY. THATS MY POINT. Ever heard of compound intrest? This is exactly the same math. Each 6% is more than the last! It's not 6% of your actually health, it's 6% of your effective health. 6 sources of 6% don't give 36%, they give 43%. Each is more valuable than the last.

[Metal Arms]

Evasion was also change this patch, it's not true random distubtion, it's now pseudo random distribution. Meaning, true random every hit against the 50% was rolled as its own. So it's always 50/50. Which is totally unskilled and truly unfavorable for competitive games, you wouldn't have random crits in a highlander tf2 platinum league game.

With the change to pseudo random distubtion, each hit against the evasion now increase the chance it works. Thats why people could store critical hits like with PA or WK on creeps, because the longer they went without a critical, the better chance their next hit will hit a critical.

[J_A_P_G]

Origineel geplaatst door finnigami:

Origineel geplaatst door Matau99:

Indeed. Armor gives you +6% EHP per point.

EXACTLY. THATS MY POINT. Ever heard of compound intrest? This is exactly the same math. Each 6% is more than the last! It's not 6% of your actually health, it's 6% of your effective health. 6 sources of 6% don't give 36%, they give 43%. Each is more valuable than the last.

Here's how the math works:
0 armor, 1000 HP: 1000 EHP
1 armor, 1000 HP: 1060 EHP
10 armor, 1000 HP: 1600 EHP
It doesn't compound it. It's calculated as HP + (hp*.06*armor)
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Armor

[Immaculatebacon]

On a 25% hp item wouldn't your ehp be raised by 25%? A 1/4 hit ratio?

[Congenital Bulitas]

Origineel geplaatst door Prince Costanzo:

Why would anybody waste money stacking evasion? They'll soon get countered by Monkey King Bar anyway. Stacking armor is a lot more effective than evasion.

Or get cleaved by Sven

[Fim]

Origineel geplaatst door Matau99:

Origineel geplaatst door finnigami:

EXACTLY. THATS MY POINT. Ever heard of compound intrest? This is exactly the same math. Each 6% is more than the last! It's not 6% of your actually health, it's 6% of your effective health. 6 sources of 6% don't give 36%, they give 43%. Each is more valuable than the last.

Here's how the math works:
0 armor, 1000 HP: 1000 EHP
1 armor, 1000 HP: 1060 EHP
10 armor, 1000 HP: 1600 EHP
It doesn't compound it. It's calculated as HP + (hp*.06*armor)
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Armor

OH GOD YOU'RE RIGHT. I'm sorry. Like I said, I didn't have the exact numbers, so I was making generalizations. So the armor thing appears to get weaker, but actually stays the same.
THE EVASION PART IS STILL TRUE THOUGH.

[Hotshot]

Monkey king bar, *enough said*

[A Street Sweeper]

Origineel geplaatst door finnigami:

OH GOD YOU'RE RIGHT. I'm sorry. Like I said, I didn't have the exact numbers, so I was making generalizations. So the armor thing appears to get weaker, but actually stays the same.
THE EVASION PART IS STILL TRUE THOUGH.

My understanding with armour is that each point is the same in terms of % reduction. It doesn't get worse or better in this sense. So say the first point of armour you get takes you 6%. This reduces the dmg you take by a flat 6%. At the other end of the scale you need more armour to get this reduction, but that's because it stacks additively. Say you have 98% dmg reduction, you'd need a huge amount of armour to get the next 1%, but that's because this next 1% is actually reducing the dmg you take by 50% from when it was 98%.

[Fim]

Origineel geplaatst door ImmaculateBacon:

On a 25% hp item wouldn't your ehp be raised by 25%? A 1/4 hit ratio?

Here, I'll try to explain. So if you have 25% evasion, you would get missed 1/4 of the time and hit 3/4 of the time. So for every 3 times you get hit, you will get missed once, on average. So for every time that your hit, you will be missed 1/3 times, on average. So for every time you take enough to hits to deal damage equal to 100% of your max hp, you will be missed for damage equal to one third of that, or ~33%. This means that you have 133% effective health.

[76561198284829456]

sigh

[Fim]

Origineel geplaatst door @deviennaaa:

sigh

What?

[Fim]

Origineel geplaatst door Hotshot:

Monkey king bar, *enough said*

Yeah, I know. Stupid MKB had to go and ruin all my fun.

[J_A_P_G]

Origineel geplaatst door finnigami:

Origineel geplaatst door Hotshot:

Monkey king bar, *enough said*

Yeah, I know. Stupid MKB had to go and ruin all my fun.

Bloodthorn is arguably even worse. Dat 100% accuracy.

[Fim]

Origineel geplaatst door Matau99:

Origineel geplaatst door finnigami:

Yeah, I know. Stupid MKB had to go and ruin all my fun.

Bloodthorn is arguably even worse. Dat 100% accuracy.

Yeah actually, I wonder which would be better in that sense. Bloodthorn gives true strike to everone against one hero for a short time, and MKB gives true strike to one hero permenantly. Although, you can just get bloodthorn on a support and save your carries the trouble. (But only if you are nearby when you are needed.)