Re: "How to report players in Dota2" - Some Questions for dumb

[long goodbye]

Hello dumb,


As part of your "How to report players in Dota 2" thread, you posted the following:

[How to not report:

Please avoid doing the following:

- Posting players match ID's and friend ID's on the Steam Discussions.
- Asking other users to report players for you.
- Reporting players on their Steam profiles for Dota2 offenses.

Report system is very functional and powerful if used correctly. Any reports outside the Dota 2 client do not lead to any kind of Dota 2 punishments.

Posting about it here users see very negatively and you may end up reported instead the offender for naming and shaming on the Dota 2 steam discussions (or any Steam discussions).

Thank you for reading. If you got any more questions about reporting abusive players, please ask them here and the community will be more than glad to help you.]

I have a few questions for you that i'll post here, since the original thread is locked:

(1) What happens when you are out of in-game reports?

As I'm sure you know, Valve provides us with 1-2 reports per week, along with any additional reports that are 'returned' once action is taken against a previously reported player. Just yesterday I played a game where THREE players from the same team inexplicably fed on purpose until the game ended--they combined for a total score of 0-63. Assuming one of the two legitimate players on that team does not have any in-game reports remaining, what happens at the end of such a game? Even if the fifth player has 1-2, there is still one intentional ruiner who will go unpunished for his actions in that game. And, for the record, here's what actually happened: at least one of those players continued to play freely throughout the evening. There was no automatic punishment. There was no apparent consequence whatsoever. I know this because I played multiple games with this user after the game in question. So, is that what you consider a "very functional and powerful" report system?

(2) Why should you avoid asking other players to report players for you?

If you do not have any reports to use and there is an intentional game ruiner on either team, shouldn't Valve encourage as many reports as possible against that player? I would think that a company with a genuine interest in the welfare of its "community" and the fairness of their games would welcome the help of legitimate players and would not hesitate to take swift action in such cases.

(3) Why shouldn't intentional game ruiners be "shamed," as you put it?

One of your replies on the original thread caught my eye:

[Because harassment of any sort is against rules as well. And singling out one person to publicly humiliate is unnecessary and contributes nothing to the whole situation of whatever the person did. In another note, link Dominox3 posted explains to you in much greater detail why naming and shaming isnt allowed.]

So, are you suggesting there is some kind of equivalence between publicly exposing an intentional game ruiner and the ruining itself? That seems dumb, but then again, it is befitting of your name. Sure, both actions are "against the rules," but that is nothing more than a blatant oversimplification of the issue at hand. By way of analogy, petty theft and murder are both "against the law," but most countries treat these two crimes very differently in terms of their legal and sociopolitical consequences.

More importantly, to classify the public exposure of a known game ruiner as "harassment" is to misconstrue the word entirely. How would you react if your local police, for example, adopted the following policy: "We will only act on or respond to your 911 calls regarding potential crimes, but anyone who either sends a letter to the police department or posts information on a VERIFIABLE criminal incident may be arrested and charged with harassment of the accused party." On its face, it's absurd. Upon further examination, it's equally absurd. To a great extent, your position is practically indistinguishable from the above example. Based on the response I quoted, it seems that "singling out" someone who is an intentional game ruiner leads to public humiliation, which is then equated to the act of ruining the game itself because both are "against the rules." FYI, 'humiliate' comes from the Latin, humiliare, or "to humble." Surely you would agree that a player who intentionally ruins a game, thereby selfishly placing his own time and desire above that of his legitimate teammates, is in need of some humility. Or perhaps your conception of fairness and your perspective of degree/scale are fundamentally different than mine.

(4) Why shouldn't you use the Steam Profile report function for Dota 2 offenses?

I'd love your response to a portion of one of my other posts; however, don't even bother if your answer is simply that "it's not how the system works." No need to waste your time or mine.

[Indeed, it is reasonable to extend the meaning of some of those categories (e.g. "they are harassing me;" 'they are cheating in-game") to the conduct of an intentional game ruiner. I would welcome any response from Valve (counsel or otherwise) that can explain how spamming invites or sending harassing messages, for example, is substantively different from forcing a player to either leave in order to avoid playing a game with intentional ruiners or sit and waste 20-40 minutes of their time in order to avoid the penalty of an abandon. Or, perhaps someone at Valve could explain why in-game cheating (i.e. scripting, hacking, etc) is punished so severely but intentional game ruining is treated as a kind of run-of-the-mill flaw that is somehow inherent to Dota. At their core, both "cheating" and "intentional game ruining" are UNIVERSALLY despised because they deal with the same principle: fairness. It's simply a distinction without a difference, yet Valve treats these two kinds of behavior as though they are radical opposites.]


Thanks

Edit* - I'd post the Match ID for the game mentioned in Question 1, but I don't want to be insensitive to the intentional game ruiners who may be "publicly humiliated" :D

[long goodbye]

Not a single response from "dumb" or any other mod. Not a single Valve fanboy took the opportunity to put forth an argument in defense of the current system.

I hope all discerning users will notice that people like "dumb" are SO QUICK to respond to threads/posts by angry players who are mostly ranting in broken English and cursing. I see these kids regurgitating boilerplate points and platitudes, saying things like "it's not them, it's you" and "that's what you get for playing solo queue."

But, when someone takes the time to draft a cogent and serious post, it seems that none of these people are willing to come out of the woodwork and engage in a meaningful debate of the issues. I understand that your affection for virtual cosmetics and your blind devotion to Valve make it hard for you to view the situation objectively. Nonetheless, I recommend that you give it a try, provided you actually believe in your position and are capable of making arguments in support of it.


Edit* - I'm not sure why "dumb" declined my friend request and blocked me. I guess that's what happens when you try to ask reasonable questions.

[Zonu]

Call me a Volvo fanboy or whatever you like, but I think any system other than the current one can be easily abused. They updated their system quite well over the years because I remember in around 2017, a streamer called SingSing got 25 LP games in a single week. Since then, they have made it a bit harder for people to abuse the system. You don't see much of that these days.

[BossGalaga]

First off, there's literally a pinned thread in this forum, that you have obviously and repeatedly willfully ignored.

edit: (my bad, wrong link) Still, AM's face says it all) https://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/0/1696043806568564569/

1. If you used your reports wisely then you would rarely run out of them. I reported like a dozen people in one week before because action was taken and my reports kept getting refunded. With the changes to the behavior/conduct system, I haven't had to use reports as often these days.
2. Getting into "DURRRRR REPORT X!" wars in game chat is not productive and it's an indicator that you're pretty toxic yourself, especially considering that you've already labeled anyone who responds to this thread as "dumb Valve fanboys."
3. There's nothing to stop anyone from making any claims that they want about you on the forums, it requires no verification that what you're saying is true to post a thread on the forums. Flooding the forums with threads about you crying because you lost a game and how it was everybody else's fault is not productive.
4. If you want to use the Steam profile report option to blame other people for losing a game then that's on you.

[shit]

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

First off, there's literally a pinned thread in this forum, that you have obviously and repeatedly willfully ignored.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1523781462

1. If you used your reports wisely then you would rarely run out of them. I reported like a dozen people in one week before because action was taken and my reports kept getting refunded. With the changes to the behavior/conduct system, I haven't had to use reports as often these days.
2. Getting into "DURRRRR REPORT X!" wars in game chat is not productive and it's an indicator that you're pretty toxic yourself, especially considering that you've already labeled anyone who responds to this thread as "dumb Valve fanboys."
3. There's nothing to stop anyone from making any claims that they want about you on the forums, it requires no verification that what you're saying is true to post a thread on the forums. Flooding the forums with threads about you crying because you lost a game and how it was everybody else's fault is not productive.
4. If you want to use the Steam profile report option to blame other people for losing a game then that's on you.

Isn't "dumb" the author of that pinned thread and OP has questions for him?

[long goodbye]

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

First off, there's literally a pinned thread in this forum, that you have obviously and repeatedly willfully ignored.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1523781462

I'm not sure what that is, but it says "PSA: Account Hijacking & Fake Trade/VAC bans"

I just scrolled through the thread, but I didn't find anything related to intentional game ruining.

So, what did I miss?

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

1. If you used your reports wisely then you would rarely run out of them. I reported like a dozen people in one week before because action was taken and my reports kept getting refunded. With the changes to the behavior/conduct system, I haven't had to use reports as often these days.
2. Getting into "DURRRRR REPORT X!" wars in game chat is not productive and it's an indicator that you're pretty toxic yourself, especially considering that you've already labeled anyone who responds to this thread as "dumb Valve fanboys."
3. There's nothing to stop anyone from making any claims that they want about you on the forums, it requires no verification that what you're saying is true to post a thread on the forums. Flooding the forums with threads about you crying because you lost a game and how it was everybody else's fault is not productive.
4. If you want to use the Steam profile report option to blame other people for losing a game then that's on you.

(1) So, what you're saying is that your anecdotal account of how the system works is somehow more "true" or "significant" than my experience? More importantly, did you even read what I wrote? My post is about intentional game ruiners. I'm not quite sure how much "wisdom" it takes to spot such behavior in-game, but I think it's safe to say that you are in no better position to do so than I am.

(2) Now you're just projecting. Your entire characterization of "asking other players to report" is full of unwarranted assumptions--so far as i'm concerned. I think there's nothing wrong to ask the other team to report an intentional game ruiner if you don't have any in-game reports yourself. Keep in mind, all of this is happening post-game. Personally, I don't think you should be saying anything to the opposing team during the game. And, in a related thread, I suggested that you mute intentional ruiners on your own team and "play as though they are not ruining." I'd love to hear more about how that's not productive and likely to be an indicator of my own toxicity.

This point is also revealing insofar as it shows that you're not really reading closely--or honestly. It seems you tried to glance over my post and summarize it with your own subjective twist. First of all, "dumb" is the name of a user who authored a pinned thread on reporting players. I am not calling anyone dumb, I am asking for "dumb" to kindly respond to my questions.

I'm sorry if you're offended by "Valve fanboys;" however, you misunderstood the use of that term. I'm not referring to "anyone who responds to this thread," but instead to people who defend the current system without engaging in a serious and truthful debate of the issues (just as you seem to be doing). When I take the time to write an extensive post laying out my points, and you respond by misrepresenting or avoiding them altogether--while implying that I am somehow "unwise" and "toxic--how exactly would you characterize yourself? As a reasonable, unbiased Dota 2 player? "Fanboy" relates to obsession, and I honestly can't think of a more apt description for people who defend an objectively unfair system in an effort to justify their own fixation with non-substantive features of the game (i.e. cosmetics, battle passes, etc.). Feel free to propose an alternative word.

(3) You're right, anyone can make any claim they want on the forum. It requires no verification. Lucky for you, I posted multiple Match IDs that are verifiable. I encourage you to look at them.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I would advocate for "flooding the forums with threads about [me] crying because I lost a game and how it was everybody else's fault," but then again, such a blatant misrepresentation is not surprising coming from someone who is trying paint me as "unwise," "toxic," and "crying" in a kind of passive-aggressive, knee-jerk defense of the current system. I'm guessing that's how you would describe my first follow-up post on this thread, correct?

If you don't mind, could you do us all a favor in the community and explain exactly where I was "crying" and blaming everybody else. Or, perhaps you would care to defend the two kids who sold their items and bought Shadow Amulets to sit AFK? How about the three ruiners who combined for 0-63 by feeding down mid? It may be that I am just not "wise" enough to handle these situations, but again, I feel confident that most of the Dota 2 community is able to see through your prevarication

Going 0-23 in a game by walking down mid and feeding, or warding your team's jungle camps, or buying Shadow Amulet and sitting AFK, are not subtle 'misplays' or mistakes.

Let's not kid ourselves.

(4) At least you're consistent. Just to be clear, are you suggesting that a game where one team has one or more INTENTIONAL GAME RUINERS is fair in any way? I'm a bit confused by the fact that you keep saying things like: I want to "blame other people for losing a game." Honestly, you're more evasive than Arc Warden's Magnetic Field. The issue isn't even about the result of the game. It's about fairness and a common understanding/agreement as to what constitutes unacceptable or ruinous behavior. I don't blame these players for the 'outcome' per se, I blame them for depriving the remaining legitimate players of the opportunity to play a fair game and have fun. It's disheartening to see that something so basic is continuously overlooked and disregarded on this platform.

[long goodbye]

Originally posted by Σ£ ßehavioℝ 666:

the report system works so well that we constantly see complaints about it.

Facts.

Of course, Valve would prefer that you focus on the threads regarding the release date of their latest Battle Pass.

[long goodbye]

Originally posted by Paskaani:

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

First off, there's literally a pinned thread in this forum, that you have obviously and repeatedly willfully ignored.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1523781462

1. If you used your reports wisely then you would rarely run out of them. I reported like a dozen people in one week before because action was taken and my reports kept getting refunded. With the changes to the behavior/conduct system, I haven't had to use reports as often these days.
2. Getting into "DURRRRR REPORT X!" wars in game chat is not productive and it's an indicator that you're pretty toxic yourself, especially considering that you've already labeled anyone who responds to this thread as "dumb Valve fanboys."
3. There's nothing to stop anyone from making any claims that they want about you on the forums, it requires no verification that what you're saying is true to post a thread on the forums. Flooding the forums with threads about you crying because you lost a game and how it was everybody else's fault is not productive.
4. If you want to use the Steam profile report option to blame other people for losing a game then that's on you.

Isn't "dumb" the author of that pinned thread and OP has questions for him?

Our friend, BossGalaga, isn't really paying attention to what I wrote. He just wants to stake his claim on the side of Valve.

If there was ever an appropriate word to describe him, it has to be "fanboy."

[Cebulaptor]

In fact. Valve doesn't controls real reason of reports. So. Whatever you wrote in "How to" people will report people just because they want to do that. Whatever you behave in game you will be reported just by one reason "somebody want to report you", and valve have "shine" on reason of that reports. That is why you can be muted by reason "communication abuse" when you not say anything. That is how system works.

[long goodbye]

Originally posted by Tanaka:

Call me a Volvo fanboy or whatever you like, but I think any system other than the current one can be easily abused. They updated their system quite well over the years because I remember in around 2017, a streamer called SingSing got 25 LP games in a single week. Since then, they have made it a bit harder for people to abuse the system. You don't see much of that these days.

Tanaka, thanks for sharing your thoughts--and no, there's no reason to call you a Valve fanboy.

I think you may be right in terms of system abuse; I don't know enough about that to speak on how it has evolved over the years.

My post is focused more so on intentional game ruiners who essentially go unpunished and, more broadly, on the prevailing view that such behavior is "unavoidable" and "inherent" in solo queue.

[zZzooey.exe]

Oh, hello, didn't see ya there.
I can answer some of the questions, but I think you already know the answers.
I am a player just like you, and information in that thread was modified by a mod at the time until was correct and up to date with the Dota 2 report system. So in short, info you can find in that thread is info you can find online as well (and not something made up), but written and put together so that people see it before posting and clogging the forums with ''this player match id 434324324 was being meanie so everyone go report him for me!'' sort of threads. Wasn't meant to make people offended in any way.
Alright, lets see...

(1) What happens when you are out of in-game reports?
Well, depends whats your behaviour score. At 10 000 behaviour score (where I currently am at) I regularly get more than 5 reports to use and barely ever run out of them. It was in a certain Dota 2 update explained that higher your score, more reports you get to use. Its to prevent low behaviour score people spamming reports, so they get less. Now, seeing that you have little reports to use, its logical that your score is low. And...why is that? In low score there are almost only toxic players. That's why its players responsibility to maintain high score to stay away from the ''toxic pool''. If you're struggling to get out of it...try playing with friends? Certainly you arent compatible with random people you get. Just a suggestion.

(2) Why should you avoid asking other players to report players for you?
I think you misunderstood why this was explained in pinned thread.
People would come to Dota2 forums to ask us to report someone for them in game they just played. Reason that's not allowed is:
1. Its against forum rules
2. We cannot report anyone for you if we weren't in match with you

If you find it acceptable to ask others in middle of the match to report someone (who broke rules) for you after game is over, go for it. Do it as you will, we have nothing to comment on that.

(3) Why shouldn't intentional game ruiners be "shamed," as you put it?
Public shaming here on forum brings nothing to the table. We (us players like you) are advising against shaming only because its rule breaking (on this forum) and its gonna cause more drama.
For example, how would you like if shaming and forum begging was allowed, and someone who played with you comes here and maybe lies that you broke rules, and whole forum reports you and publicly ridicules you? How would that work? Is that fair? Unlikely.
Reason why we don't like 'shamers' is also because their story of how his games go wrong is always debunked when we take a look at their wordcloud and see they post nothing but insults in all chat, provoking people who then ruin game.

Hope this helps!

[BossGalaga]

Originally posted by Benny Blanco:

...

Posted the wrong link, this is the one, the same thread that's pinned on the Dota forum and hard to miss unless you're ignoring it intentionally, which a lot of people are apparently.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/0/1696043806568564569/

If anecdotal comments don't count then none of your comments about your experiences count, according to yourself.

If you don't like playing with random people in solo queue pubs then there's a simple solution, join or create your own party. Or even better yet, get a team together, draft for a league, even compete in open qualifiers for national, regional and international tournaments.

Again, getting into "Report X!" wars in-game is counter-productive, no matter what excuses you make. And your claim that you only do that post-game is bullcrap because I've seen your public chat logs where you literally negotiated in allchat with players on the enemy team to report each others' teammates, during the middle of the game, along with flaming, raging and trolling your own teammates.

You went on in your mini-manifesto to make a bunch of anecdotal arguments but golly gee whiz, you already said anecdotes don't count. Darn.

[long goodbye]

Originally posted by dumb:

(1) What happens when you are out of in-game reports?
Well, depends whats your behaviour score. At 10 000 behaviour score (where I currently am at) I regularly get more than 5 reports to use and barely ever run out of them. It was in a certain Dota 2 update explained that higher your score, more reports you get to use. Its to prevent low behaviour score people spamming reports, so they get less. Now, seeing that you have little reports to use, its logical that your score is low. And...why is that? In low score there are almost only toxic players. That's why its players responsibility to maintain high score to stay away from the ''toxic pool''. If you're struggling to get out of it...try playing with friends? Certainly you arent compatible with random people you get. Just a suggestion.

(1) So, just to clarify: Players with higher Behavior Scores receive proportionately more reports per week than players with lower Behavior Scores? And the justification for this is to "prevent low behaviour score people [from] spamming reports."

Is that correct? If so, can I ask you this: Why is it that intentional game ruining is linked exclusively to in-game reports if such a system is in place?

It seems to me that, by setting it up this way, players with high Behavior Scores are rarely matched with intentional game ruiners and, when they are, they usually have ample in-game reports to use. Conversely, players with low Behavior Scores--where "there are almost only toxic players"--are likely to encounter intentional game ruiners with a much greater frequency but, unfortunately, they usually don't have in-game reports to use and thus cannot take any action.

Could you please explain the logic and fairness of such a structure?

Originally posted by dumb:

(2) Why should you avoid asking other players to report players for you?
I think you misunderstood why this was explained in pinned thread.
People would come to Dota2 forums to ask us to report someone for them in game they just played. Reason that's not allowed is:
1. Its against forum rules
2. We cannot report anyone for you if we weren't in match with you

If you find it acceptable to ask others in middle of the match to report someone (who broke rules) for you after game is over, go for it. Do it as you will, we have nothing to comment on that.

(2) Thanks for clearing that up. Indeed, I thought it was referring to in-game requests.

Originally posted by dumb:

(3) Why shouldn't intentional game ruiners be "shamed," as you put it?
Public shaming here on forum brings nothing to the table. We (us players like you) are advising against shaming only because its rule breaking (on this forum) and its gonna cause more drama.
For example, how would you like if shaming and forum begging was allowed, and someone who played with you comes here and maybe lies that you broke rules, and whole forum reports you and publicly ridicules you? How would that work? Is that fair? Unlikely.
Reason why we don't like 'shamers' is also because their story of how his games go wrong is always debunked when we take a look at their wordcloud and see they post nothing but insults in all chat, provoking people who then ruin game.

(3) Now I think you misunderstood my point. If you recall, I used your concept of "shaming" as the public exposure of intentional game ruiners, backed by verifiable evidence in the form of Match IDs. I agree with the notion that people should not be allowed to post "lies" about other players in an effort to ridicule them or get them reported. In fact, I would support some kind of forum rule that punished such behavior (if there isn't one already).

At the same time, the idea of informing the community of verifiable games that are being ruined intentionally and without consequence (presumably because the ruiners are in the "toxic pool" and the remaining players do not have reports to use) is far removed from your description.

I am somewhat baffled by the fact that you would attempt to "debunk" claims of intentional game ruining by deferring to insults in the chat. Let's assume, however, that one player flames another in team chat. The latter decides to intentionally ruin the game by selling his items, sitting AFK, feeding, etc. I just have two questions:

(i) Couldn't the ruiner simply mute the toxic player and continue playing, if only out of respect for the three remaining teammates who are not at fault?

(ii) Where is your sense of proportion or degree?

If we are in a game and I type "hey, you suck and your CM set is ugly af" or "f*ck you" and you respond by running down mid and feeding for the rest of the game, would you argue that these "offenses" are of equal weight and thus deserve equal treatment? You seem to be collapsing both wrongs into a general pool of "toxic" behavior that is all equally bad. To be clear, I am not advocating for people to flame in chat. I am simply trying to bring us all to a place where we can admit the obvious--intentional game ruining is the MOST SEVERE form of "toxic" behavior and should be punished accordingly, irrespective of one's Behavior Score, MMR, or amount of money spent on the game.

[long goodbye]

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

If anecdotal comments don't count then none of your comments about your experiences count, according to yourself.

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

You went on in your mini-manifesto to make a bunch of anecdotal arguments but golly gee whiz, you already said anecdotes don't count. Darn

No; I said your anecdotal comments should not be viewed as more "true" or "signifcant" than my own, in response to your implication that your use of reports is somehow more "wise" than mine.

You call it a mini-manifesto, I call it cogent argument. I guess you would have preferred more of a "DURRRRRRR X REPORT!" approach since that is presumably easier for you to rebut.

In this case, however, you're only ridiculing yourself.

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

If you don't like playing with random people in solo queue pubs then there's a simple solution, join or create your own party. Or even better yet, get a team together, draft for a league, even compete in open qualifiers for national, regional and international tournaments.

So, you're admitting that the system in solo queue is dysfunctional? In your previous post, it seemed to me that you were suggesting the report system actually works well if used "wisely?"

Which is it?

And, to be clear, advocating for party queue as a "solution" to the issue of unpunished intentional game ruining is just facially absurd. It merely avoids the problem at hand while doing nothing to improve the situation for those who are not able to play in a "league" or "open qualifiers" (aka the vast majority of the Dota 2 player base).

Originally posted by BossGalaga:

Again, getting into "Report X!" wars in-game is counter-productive, no matter what excuses you make. And your claim that you only do that post-game is bullcrap because I've seen your public chat logs where you literally negotiated in allchat with players on the enemy team to report each others' teammates, during the middle of the game, along with flaming, raging and trolling your own teammates.

Yeah, I've done both. But again, I'm not sure what your point is. You are talking about "productivity" in a discussion that has do with intentional game ruining. I'm sorry, but I don't see the connection.

Conveniently, you chose to ignore the Match IDs I posted. In one, I was on the opposing team (I didn't flame the three opponents who fed--I didn't say anything to them other than asking "why?" in all chat). I got free MMR and I still felt bad after the game, because it's simply not enjoyable for either side. In the second game, I didn't say anything to either Storm or Alchemist. I'm curious to hear your defense of such behavior.

It's clear that you're unwilling to engage my comments in an honest manner. No worries.

[BossGalaga]

Originally posted by Benny Blanco:

...

You admit to doing the same things that you're complaining about and claim that you don't do.

In regards to asking players to report other players in-game, you said "Keep in mind, all of this is happening post-game." But that was clearly not true, as you have literally negotiated with enemy players to report your teammates in the middle of a game.

The report system and matchmaking are two different things.

As far as solo queue, I'm not advocating party queue as a solution to your problems that you say you have with the report system. You're complaining about your teammates, I'm suggesting that you join or create a party if you don't like being matched with 4 random people. Or again, better yet, join an actual competitive league. Playing pubs with random people isn't exactly the most competitive. Not exactly a gotcha there bud. Also, there's nothing stopping you from joining a team or creating your own team.

And I wasn't ignoring your matchids. You had some bad games? Okay. You claim that I'm not engaging your comments in an "honest manner" and you've already admitted that you were lying about getting into report wars with your own teammates.

[Cebulaptor]

To make system fair system should not rely on any people opinion.